Web 2.0 predicted by Mormon?

[Guest migu]

In light of advancing web 2.0 technologies, in my mind it seems that there are profound effects from this on the world. I'm sure it will happen more as time goes on. I recognize there are a lot of you have a lot of knowledge on the subject, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts, or those from anyone else who might care to join in.

To put define terms very simply for purposes of brevity, Web 2.0 is the interactive internet. Whereas the internet used to be mostly static "billboards" where you looked, but didn't touch, the internet is now becoming very interactive and communities are built, and people like you and me are given the ability to speak their minds.

(for reference, here's a wiki article. Web 2.0 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

This has is beginning to have an empowering effect. People are starting to speak their minds, and things are beginning to change. There are many examples of it, but one noteable point was AOL. Here's a link to what I'm talking about. Be warned, there is a lot of swearing in it. Consumerist's flowery description doesn't help matters any. For those who dont want to listen I'll quickly relate the story below.

*link removed*

(As many of you remember not too long ago, the company AOL gave up its paid service and transformed into an ad based internet portal. A lot of people credit it to the single phone call of a man named Vincent Ferrari, who called in to AOL to cancel his AOL account. AOL's policy seemed to be to use deceptive strategies to the max allowable limit (maybe past it, I don't know) in an attempt to keep their customers. (For those of you thinking I'm being cynical about the company, know that most of us computer geeks have hated them from almost day one.

Vincent taped the conversation and posted it online to his blog, where word caught on like wildfire. AOL began losing customers at a quick rate, was forced to give up their ISP service and made a lot of internal change.)

This sort of thing was probably not completely unheard of before, but it seems to be a happening a lot more. People are forced to behave because "what will the people online say?"

It seems to me that it relates to a scripture we read in Mormon 5:8

And now behold, I, Mormon, do not desire to harrow up the souls of men in casting before them such an awful scene of blood and carnage as was laid before mine eyes; but I, knowing that these things must surely be made known, and that all things which are hid must be revealed upon the house-tops— (emphasis is mine.)

I don't know for sure that this was what the scripture was referencing, but in my imagination anyway, its what it seems to refer to. It would be fun to see what you think.

Anyone care to join in the topic?

[Guest migu]

a couple more, so I suppose the topic of the thread would be better stated "predicted by the scriptures" and not just "predicted by mormon." The one in Doctrine & Covenants seems to get right to the point.

Luke 12: 3

3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

D&C 1: 3

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

[skalenfehl]

I removed the link. Please review the site rules. The link had inappropriate material (language) as you forewarned.

Carry on.

[Guest migu]

here's a better idea then. If you go to google and search on "Vincent Ferrari," you can read all about him. Thanks for the correction, its not my intent to offend. His own blog "insignificant thoughts" is one of the first links, but if you do that you're on your own. I'm not reading every page on google to make sure there is no swearing

[cgrantreed]

I would have to say that the web has a way of making the secret known to the many but there is no doubt in my mind that the scriptures that you referenced were stating something different. The reason for this is that unless you post your secrets to the web, or are "operating a secret online" instead of at home... i.e. you are trafficking porn online yet appear to be living a normal family life otherwise to the neighborly world around you. These things that are brought out on the web are public domain eventually and someone is going to find it and may reveal your secrets to the masses. You may be running a racket like AOL was and people will communicate that fact but for the most part it is possible to be on the web and still be very anonymous if you are careful Joe Public.

I personally understand the scriptures that you referenced to mean specifically that the skeletons in our closets will eventually be revealed to everyone if they are kept locked up and not disposed of properly prior to Jesus' return. There are many a secret that people have that will never make it to the net in any form or fashion but will be made known to all during the millennium. This is a good reason to repent of your sins and keep a well organized "closet" so that when your doors are cast open before your maker... there is no unironed shirts hanging there.

MHO

Grant

[Guest migu]

Good points, Cgrantreed. My imagination tends to get carried away with me. Looking at it from that perspective I am tempted to change the thread title to something more appropriate, and I still welcome discussion on this, its an interest of mine, but it still seems impossible for me to edit the title of this thread. I can't find that function.

[Guest migu]

There are many a secret that people have that will never make it to the net in any form or fashion but will be made known to all during the millennium.

In that context it becomes more clear what the point of using the word "housetops" was in the first place. More of a figure of speech.

[MaidservantX]

I personally understand the scriptures that you referenced to mean specifically that the skeletons in our closets will eventually be revealed to everyone if they are kept locked up and not disposed of properly prior to Jesus' return. There are many a secret that people have that will never make it to the net in any form or fashion but will be made known to all during the millennium. This is a good reason to repent of your sins and keep a well organized "closet" so that when your doors are cast open before your maker... there is no unironed shirts hanging there.

I have heard this all my life. I am genuinely curious as to if this has been stated at all by a prophet other than the scriptures shown. I would also venture that even if it had been a prophet, talking about the "internet" in the 1800s and early 1900s would have been an impossible interpretation so they would have done the best they could.

Point being, I don't think that people's sins are going to be published in general -- I think wicked combinations will be brought to light, and crimes that need to be known (Mormon talks about how he is telling his war stories for this reason), but individual's personal struggles are not going to be broadcast against their will. (Even D & C talks about "the rebellious" not "those who have sinned".) That is not doctrine I don't think. That is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the complete opposite of how the Lord works. Those with sins go into a private meeting in a closed door, confidential meeting with a man (the bishop) who represents Christ. Humiliation is not ever meant to be part of the process. Practically speaking, during the millenium we are taught that perhaps the greater part of the wicked will no longer be living, and that the greater part of those still living will be righteous or at least capable of peace -- so there hopefully won't be too many skeletons with that -- but perhaps those who are left will hear history as it really should be told with all the works that the Adversary attempted to do and managed to accomplish for a time. My opinion only, of course.

Interestingly enough, I thought for a long time myself about how to me this prophecy may have been partly fulfilled in the talk shows like Jerry Springer and ilk. To me the fact that we (as a society) have no shame for our sins any more and we just spill all out every where.

[cgrantreed]

I don't think that people's sins are going to be published in general -- I think wicked combinations will be brought to light, and crimes that need to be known (Mormon talks about how he is telling his war stories for this reason), but individual's personal struggles are not going to be broadcast against their will. (Even D & C talks about "the rebellious" not "those who have sinned".) That is not doctrine I don't think. That is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the complete opposite of how the Lord works. Those with sins go into a private meeting in a closed door, confidential meeting with a man (the bishop) who represents Christ. Humiliation is not ever meant to be part of the process. Practically speaking, during the millenium we are taught that perhaps the greater part of the wicked will no longer be living, and that the greater part of those still living will be righteous or at least capable of peace -- so there hopefully won't be too many skeletons with that -- but perhaps those who are left will hear history as it really should be told with all the works that the Adversary attempted to do and managed to accomplish for a time. My opinion only, of course.

One thing that came to mind with your comment was as it is listed in D&C 1: 3 -

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

- is that those who are "rebellious" (my interpretation is those who do not follow Gods plan, don't repent, etc), who are trying to hide their indiscretions in their wickedness (even if only minorly wicked) will have no place to hide it once Christ returns. This alone would expose their wickedness or "secrets". I know that God does not directly use humiliation as part of His process of repentance but humiliation comes from knowing that you did not take care of business and you were exposed in your lies to God. Just MHO I guess. Either way, I do not want to be the guy that fails to clean up the closet before its inspected in plain sight:-) As an example, I liken this to the guy that commits a sex offense and is tried and sentenced. As part of his sentence he has to register and that registration puts his name on a list of people registered like him. He may never offend again but it is broadcast "upon the rooftops" to those who want to listen that he is an offender. Once someone in his neighborhood finds out that he is registered every neighbor within 5 miles will find out his "secret" whether he wants it or not.

Interestingly enough, I thought for a long time myself about how to me this prophecy may have been partly fulfilled in the talk shows like Jerry Springer and ilk. To me the fact that we (as a society) have no shame for our sins any more and we just spill all out every where.

I would have to agree with that. The deal with these shows though is that they are not a broadcast of how wrong it is, but a sensationalized process of numbing the evils of the sins themselves. Reality TV itself is really just a form of anesthetic to thicken our skin against offensive material and actions. I know its not directly a tool of Satan but it sure isn't hurting his cause any.

Grant

[cgrantreed]

In light of advancing web 2.0 technologies, in my mind it seems that there are profound effects from this on the world. I'm sure it will happen more as time goes on. I recognize there are a lot of you have a lot of knowledge on the subject, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts, or those from anyone else who might care to join in.

To put define terms very simply for purposes of brevity, Web 2.0 is the interactive internet. Whereas the internet used to be mostly static "billboards" where you looked, but didn't touch, the internet is now becoming very interactive and communities are built, and people like you and me are given the ability to speak their minds.

(for reference, here's a wiki article. Web 2.0 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

This has is beginning to have an empowering effect. People are starting to speak their minds, and things are beginning to change.

------------------------

This sort of thing was probably not completely unheard of before, but it seems to be a happening a lot more. People are forced to behave because "what will the people online say?"

It is an interesting thing for me too as I watch the power of the net surfacing in so many ways. As with all things, there is an equal use of good things for increasingly evil purposes and the net is by far one of the best examples out there. With the ease of communication, there is an effective and highly speedy communication channel for transmission of illicit stuff like hate agenda, porn, etc. With the expanded bandwidth and technology allowing the spread of broadband content for good, it is used for the degradation of truth in just as high definition. The fact that we can use the net to spread the word of God and do community geneology and missionary work and on the same net we can spread filth, debauchery and evil intent just seems twisted and unreal. It would be like selling porn at church, it just doesn't make sense that it could be allowed to happen... though sadly I am sure that it has happened somewhere in the world, though far less of a chance than it being peddled on the net for sure. Its has such great potential but even at 100%, I'd guess that only 10% of the net is being used for good as most of us don't use it for bad so we can't judge the actual content of good versus evil... but I know that its chock full of stuff that is not what God would intent for it. Just a thought...

Grant

[WANDERER]

One big online commercial...with content being pushed further and further off the net by advertising and marketing and paid memberships.

On the other hand I rather appreciate being able to google down an instruction video on how to do just about anything practical and the community element of shared knowledge within similar goal-minded groups is great.

However there is also the aspect of massive over-duplication ...almost a 'becoming' effect on content-alike forum and blogs. It is good to interact with other sources of information rather than become totally internetted.

Will light shine through the darkness of cyberspace...if anything discernment is more needed than ever.

[Guest migu]

Do any of you use internet gateways? I loathe filtering software for myriad of technical reasons, in addition to the fact if one has the knowhow, its trivially bypassed. I prefer to use an internet gateway/router/etc, and not introduce that garbage on my computer. I've been using IPCop and Smoothwall OS's also right now I'm trying out pfsense and soon plan to try clark connect. (looking for a decent gateway to sell my services for.)

If any of you know of one that runs on OpenBSD I'd be really eager to check that out.

for those of you not familiar, they are linux/BSD operating systems which act as routers/internet gateways, and they're free. You just need an old PC, 2 network cards, and a switch, hub, or router(in gateway mode). And either a little bit of knowhow or a whole lot of patience. (they usually have tutorials available) After that you've got a sophisticated gateway or firewall which can be modified, (for the most part without too much effort) to do all number of things.

I used to run a website of mine on a home server with IPCop as the router and watch Snort IDS pointing out all the hacking attempts. That was only amusing for a little while. I got sick of the server being attacked. Am I supposed to feel nerdy now? Cause I can't get over how cool these things are.

Welcome to Express 3.0! - SmoothWall.org (Commercial product with a free "Express" version)

pfSense Open Source Firewall Distribution - Home Free

ClarkConnect - Server and Gateway - Linux Small Business Server SBS (a commercial product with a free "community" version)

IPCop.org :: The bad packets stop here! (one of my favorites so far) Free

others

DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

clicky in firewall, then hit search

[Elphaba]

(As many of you remember not too long ago, the company AOL gave up its paid service and transformed into an ad based internet portal.

What do you mean AOL gave up its paid service? Ferrari paid $14.95 and I think that's what we pay today. I know I should check before I post this, but I'd have to go through too much paperwork.

Are you saying if I am paying $14.95, that should not be right?

Vincent taped the conversation and posted it online to his blog, where word caught on like wildfire. AOL began losing customers at a quick rate, was forced to give up their ISP service and made a lot of internal change.

I googled this and found the conversation, and it was awful. Ultimately, however, I heard an employee following his script. I really hate when corporate fires the employee for doing what the company trained him to do in the first place.

Interesting stuff.

Elphaba

[Guest migu]

What do you mean AOL gave up its paid service? Ferrari paid $14.95 and I think that's what we pay today. I know I should check before I post this, but I'd have to go through too much paperwork.

AOL lays off 2,000 workers to focus on ad-based model - MarketWatch

looked like they were headed there. I might actually be wrong on some minor details in that story. My point is still valid that one posted phone call really did that company a number. They started losing huge amounts of customers.

Are you saying if I am paying $14.95, that should not be right?

they appear to still have paid service for now, but I don't recommend AOL.

I googled this and found the conversation, and it was awful. Ultimately, however, I heard an employee following his script. I really hate when corporate fires the employee for doing what the company trained him to do in the first place.

Interesting stuff.

Elphaba

im a bit nervous about links to consumerist now, but google "AOL Retention Manual Uploaded in Full" and you'll find the apparent script. Don't know how legitimate it is, (probably is) but the call was for sure.

[Hemidakota]

In light of advancing web 2.0 technologies, in my mind it seems that there are profound effects from this on the world. I'm sure it will happen more as time goes on. I recognize there are a lot of you have a lot of knowledge on the subject, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts, or those from anyone else who might care to join in.

To put define terms very simply for purposes of brevity, Web 2.0 is the interactive internet. Whereas the internet used to be mostly static "billboards" where you looked, but didn't touch, the internet is now becoming very interactive and communities are built, and people like you and me are given the ability to speak their minds.

(for reference, here's a wiki article. Web 2.0 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

This has is beginning to have an empowering effect. People are starting to speak their minds, and things are beginning to change. There are many examples of it, but one noteable point was AOL. Here's a link to what I'm talking about. Be warned, there is a lot of swearing in it. Consumerist's flowery description doesn't help matters any. For those who dont want to listen I'll quickly relate the story below.

*link removed*

(As many of you remember not too long ago, the company AOL gave up its paid service and transformed into an ad based internet portal. A lot of people credit it to the single phone call of a man named Vincent Ferrari, who called in to AOL to cancel his AOL account. AOL's policy seemed to be to use deceptive strategies to the max allowable limit (maybe past it, I don't know) in an attempt to keep their customers. (For those of you thinking I'm being cynical about the company, know that most of us computer geeks have hated them from almost day one.

Vincent taped the conversation and posted it online to his blog, where word caught on like wildfire. AOL began losing customers at a quick rate, was forced to give up their ISP service and made a lot of internal change.)

This sort of thing was probably not completely unheard of before, but it seems to be a happening a lot more. People are forced to behave because "what will the people online say?"

It seems to me that it relates to a scripture we read in Mormon 5:8

And now behold, I, Mormon, do not desire to harrow up the souls of men in casting before them such an awful scene of blood and carnage as was laid before mine eyes; but I, knowing that these things must surely be made known, and that all things which are hid must be revealed upon the house-tops— (emphasis is mine.)

I don't know for sure that this was what the scripture was referencing, but in my imagination anyway, its what it seems to refer to. It would be fun to see what you think.

Anyone care to join in the topic?

5:8 And now behold, I, Mormon, do not desire to harrow up the souls of men in casting before them such an awful scene of blood and carnage as was laid before mine eyes; but I, knowing that these things must surely be made known, and that all things which are hid must be revealed upon the house-tops—

I do believe this is a correct assumption. Through the world-wide web, we can collaborate with others throughout the globe in seconds. Though, what I have seen is greater than this, where neural interfaces will be the future with instance access to WW library of information. This was done in the 90s as a government sponsored attempt with UCLA for future fighting machines. Now, the government has switch position in creating AI type robotics, whether to fight along side the soldier, flying in autonomous groups, or driving tactical military fighting/logistic vehicles.

Perhaps, there is a need for a 6th Quorum of Seventies for this wise purpose.

[Elphaba]

Don't know how legitimate it is, (probably is) but the call was for sure.

I believed you the call was legitimate. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

Elphaba

[Guest migu]

I believed you the call was legitimate. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

Elphaba

No you didn't. I just read somewhere that the someone wasn't too sure about the aol manual on consumerist and rather than spend hours trying to find where i heard that, i decided to just post it with my disclaimer.

[Guest migu]

who is that brother dorsey guy in your quote? seems he was inaccurate from everything i've read that you've posted.

[Elphaba]

who is that brother dorsey guy in your quote? seems he was inaccurate from everything i've read that you've posted.

He is a member of the board who seriously dislikes me. We have a bit of history, and the feeling is mutual.

I seem to be polarizing, or at least, that's my impression. The people who like my posts like them very much, and often PM or e-mail me letting me know; conversely, those who don't like them seriously disagree with me. To their credit, I can be insufferable.

Thanks for your compliment.

Elphaba

[VisionOfLehi]

I seem to be polarizing, or at least, that's my impression. The people who like my posts like them very much, and often PM or e-mail me letting me know; conversely, those who don't like them seriously disagree with me. To their credit, I can be insufferable.

Thanks for your compliment.

Elphaba

It seems to be true.

It's because you're very opinionated, I think. You don't beat around the bush, in my experience. You say what you want to say, and mean it.

Many people like that kind of "get it done" attitude. Others seem to just notice that your opinion is different, plus you're sarcastic (a lot of the time).

Took me a couple weeks to realize it and start to enjoy you. Does not mean I agree with you, but I do like ya'