Sons of God

[MrNirom]

And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying, Behold, we are the sons of God, have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men? and are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and given in marriage? and our wives bear unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto them of old,

men of great renown.

This is from the inspired version JST. I have tried to look up more about these sons of God..

A person of another faith had said:

In Genesis chapter 6 we’re given a very scary scenario. Somehow fallen angels (sons of God) co-habited with human women to create a complete hybrid race of super beings. They were known as the Nephilim and only Noah and his family were spared from this corruption from the seed of Satan. You might ask why. Why spare only Noah and his family (eight in all)? We’re told Noah was perfect in his generations. In other words Noah’s genes were untouched by the fallen angels.

So I am trying to find out more about this scripture and explain what these giants are and how they really played a part in earth's history.

Any help would be appreciated!

[Hemidakota]

Nirom, a great source to use while studying the Old Testament is the LDS Institute manual that are located online.

Here is a quick link for the OT manual: Old Testament - Genesis 4-50

In answering your question, the below explanation was taken out of the manual.

(4-8) Genesis 6:1–2, 21. What Is Meant by the “Sons of God” and the “Daughters of Men”?

Moses 8:13–16 further clarifies what is meant here and why this intermarriage is condemned. Commenting on the same verses, Elder Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:

“Because the daughters of Noah married the sons of men contrary to the teachings of the Lord, his anger was kindled, and this offense was one cause that brought to pass the universal flood. You will see that the condition appears reversed in the Book of Moses. It was the daughters of the sons of God who were marrying the sons of men, which was displeasing unto the Lord. The fact was, as we see it revealed, that the daughters who had been born, evidently under the covenant, and were the daughters of the sons of God, that is to say of those who held the priesthood, were transgressing the commandment of the Lord and were marrying out of the Church. Thus they were cutting themselves off from the blessings of the priesthood contrary to the teachings of Noah and the will of God.” (Answers to Gospel Questions, 1:136–37.)

President Spencer W. Kimball warned Latter-day Saints today of the dangers of marrying outside of the covenant:

“Paul told the Corinthians, ‘Be ye not unequally yoked together. . . .’ Perhaps Paul wanted them to see that religious differences are fundamental differences. Religious differences imply wider areas of conflict. Church loyalties and family loyalties clash. Children’s lives are often frustrated. The nonmember may be equally brilliant, well trained and attractive, and he or she may have the most pleasing personality, but without a common faith, trouble lies ahead for the marriage. There are some exceptions but the rule is a harsh and unhappy one.

“There is no bias nor prejudice in this doctrine. It is a matter of following a certain program to reach a definite goal.” (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 240.)

[Hemidakota]

Apostle Mark E. Peterson wrote concerning the Nephilim mentioned in the scriptures:

"A Bible dictionary says that the Nephilim referred to in this passage were giant demigods who lived in those days. (New Analytical Bible and Dictionary of the Bible.) Enoch spoke of them as a depraved lot who sought to murder him. But part divine and part human they were not, for God at no time consorted with the 'daughters of men.' It is sacrilege even to mention such a thing ....

"The Nephilim were described as giants—how big we do not know. Were they like Goliath? In any case, the giants who lived in Enoch 's day were a depraved lot who sought to murder him. But part divine and part human they were not, for neither God, angels, nor 'the sons of the gods' consorted with earthly women as implied." (Mark E. Petersen, Noah and the Flood, pp. 27-29.)

References

"We saw the giants, the sons of Anak, ... and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers." (Numbers 13:33.)

"Giants dwelt therein in old time." (Deuteronomy 2:20.)

"In those days there were giants on the earth." (Moses 8:18.)

Moses 7:17

[VisionOfLehi]

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

They were most likely just a race of giants. (Like the Anakim in Numbers 13:33)

The same Hebrew word is used in Numbers 13:33 as it is in Genesis 6:4. The word, "Nephilim"

Scandinavian people have been known for their height, I'm sure it was something such as that. These were "giants."

It also seems to signify their prowess at war. They were hard to defeat, or at least feared. See Goliath.

This is taken from the CES Institute Manual on the Old Testament (First half)

http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/full/CESInstitute_OT1Gento2Sam_Student_00__Complete_32489_eng.pdf

(25-6) 1 Samuel 17:4–11. How Big Was Goliath and

How Heavy Was His Armor?

According to this passage, Goliath’s height was six cubits and a span. The most widely accepted opinion of the length of a cubit is about eighteen inches or, roughly, the distance from the elbow to the tip of the extended middle finger. A span is said to be one-half the distance from the thumb to the end of the little finger when the fingers are spread as wide as possible. These measurements would make the height of Goliath approximately nine feet, nine inches! It is not too surprising that the Philistines would have picked such a champion or that no man in Israel wanted to be Saul’s champion. It is unusual that anyone today is over seven feet tall, but it is commonly believed there were men in ancient times whose height far exceeded seven feet. There are references in the scriptures to giants in the earlier periods of history: in the time of Enoch (see Moses 7:15), in the days of Noah (see Moses 8:18; Genesis 6:4), and in the time of the Israelites (see Numbers 13:33; Deuteronomy 2:10–11; Joshua 15:8). Called Anakim (meaning “long-necked” or “tall” in Hebrew) by the Israelites, this race of giants seems to have been virtually destroyed in the conquest of Canaan under Joshua (see Joshua 11:21). In fact, it is recorded that none of the Anakim were left except in Gaza, Ashdod, and Gath (see Joshua 11:22), which was Goliath’s hometown (see 1 Samuel 17:4).

[MrNirom]

So if the giants were before Noah and the flood.. was Goliath after the flood? or before?

[VisionOfLehi]

So if the giants were before Noah and the flood.. was Goliath after the flood? or before?

Both.

The giants before the flood didn't survive, but more came about afterwards.

Speculation:

After the flood, when men spread out in the land again, some "tribe" started having rather large people. Genetics or diet, I don't know (and don't care, lol).

I feel they're height was likely exaggerated, although some were probably very tall, as Goliath was. If we suppose that the average height of a normal man back then was considerably shorter than now... like a foot, than even a man 7 foot tall would seem like a giant.

I'm 5'10, and I know people that're 6'6" that seem like they're a breed of their own. Now put them in armor and on the other side of the battle field, and they probably seem even bigger.

[skalenfehl]

So if the giants were before Noah and the flood.. was Goliath after the flood? or before?

I do believe the conquest of Canaan under Joshua happened after the flood.

[Hemidakota]

Nirom - do a google web and image search on INDIAN MOUNDS. Note how big they were....

[VisionOfLehi]

Bible dictionary:

Unusually large, tall persons, apparently having great physical strength. They are mentioned both before the flood (Gen. 6: 4; Moses 8: 18) and after (Num. 13: 33; Deut. 2: 10-12, 20; Deut. 3: 11-13; Deut. 9: 2; Josh. 15: 8; Josh. 18: 16). Raphah of Gath was said to be the father of several giants of whom Goliath was one (1 Sam. 17: 4-7; 2 Sam. 21: 16-22; 1 Chr. 20: 6). A 12-fingered, 12-toed giant is also mentioned as one of the sons. The giants in Palestine were also known as Ankims, Emins, and Zamzummins.

[MrNirom]

So how did the giants continue after the flood.. when there were only 8 people who survived? Noah and his clan. I am missing the link somewhere.. LOL

[VisionOfLehi]

Well how did they come about in the first place?

Momma has a big baby. Big baby mates with another big baby (when they're older.)

Keeps happening, you get a whole bunch of big babies all living together.

Also, I have no idea about this, but it's likely that one of the 8 had some of the same lineage as the first giants.

[Hemidakota]

Bahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....Lehi, you had me rolling on that one. [Momma.....]

Gene pool was good.

[Hemidakota]

Taken from Historical Collections of Ohio in Two Volumes, Noble County, Ohio:

A History of Ashtabula County, Ohio, 1878 (in two separate entries):

In cultivating the soil in the vicinity implements have been found, and in excavating the ground for graves it is said that bones have been exhumed which seemed to have belonged to a race of giants.

This land at one time belonged to a Mr. Peleg Sweet, who was a man of large size and full features; and it is narrated that at one time he, in digging, came upon a skull and jaw which were of such size that the skull would cover his head and the jaw could be easily slipped over his face, as though the head of a giant were enveloping his ...

(Second entry)

The graves were, distinguished by slight depressions in the surface of the earth, disposed in straight rows, which, with intervening spaces or valleys, covered the entire area. The number of these graves has been estimated to be between two and three thousand. Aaron Wright, Esq., in 1800, made a careful examination of these depressions, and found them invariably to contain human bones blackened with time, which upon exposure to the air soon crumbled to dust. Some of these bones were of unusual size, and evidently belonged to a race allied to giants. Skulls were taken from these mounds, the cavities of which were of sufficient capacity to admit the head of an ordinary man, and jaw-bones [sic] that might be fitted over the face with equal facility. The bones of the upper and lower extremities were of corresponding size.

[Hemidakota]

Some more info on what is found in North America....Records of Giant Skeletons

* In his book, The Natural and Aboriginal History of Tennessee, author John Haywood describes "very large" bones in stone graves found in Williamson County, Tennessee, in 1821. In White County, Tennessee, an "ancient fortification" contained skeletons of gigantic stature averaging at least 7 feet in length.

* Giant skeletons were found in the mid-1800s near Rutland and Rodman, New York. J.N. DeHart, M.D. found vertebrae "larger than those of the present type" in Wisconsin mounds in 1876. W.H.R. Lykins uncovered skull bones "of great size and thickness" in mounds of Kansas City area in 1877.

* George W. Hill, M.D., dug out a skeleton "of unusual size" in a mound of Ashland County, Ohio. In 1879, a nine-foot, eight-inch skeleton was excavated from a mound near Brewersville, Indiana(Indianapolis News, Nov 10, 1975)

* A six foot, six inch skeleton was found in a Utah mound. This was at least a foot taller than the average Indian height in the area, and these natives- what few there were of them -were not mound builders.

* "A skeleton which is reported to have been of enormous dimensions" was found in a clay coffin, with a sandstone slab containing hieroglyphics, during mound explorations by a Dr everhart near Zanesville, Ohio.(American Antiquarian, v3, 1880, pg61)

* Ten skeletons "of both sexes and of gigantic size" were taken from a mound at Warren, Minnesota, 1883. (St. Paul Pioneer Press, May 23, 1883)

* A skeleton 7 feet 6 inches long was found in a massive stone structure that was likened to a temple chamber within a mound in Kanawha County, West Virginia, in 1884. (American Antiquarian, v6, 1884 133f. Cyrus Thomas, Report on Mound Explorations of the Bureau of Ethnology, 12th Annual Report, Smithsonian Bureau of Ethnology, 1890-91)

* A large mound near Gasterville, Pennsylvania, contained a vault in which was found a skeleton measuring 7 feet 2 inches. Inscriptions were carved on the vault. (American Antiquarian, v7, 1885, 52f) click here for full article

* In 1885, miners discovered the mummified remains of woman measuring 6 feet 8 inches tall holding an infant. The mummies were found in a cave behind a wall of rock in the Yosemite Valley. click here for full article

* In Minnesota, 1888, were discovered remains of seven skeletons 7 to 8 feet tall. (St. Paul Pioneer Press, June 29, 1888)

* A mound near Toledo, Ohio, held 20 skeletons, seated and facing east with jaws and teeth "twice as large as those of present day people," and besides each was a large bowl with "curiously wrought hieroglyphic figures." (Chicago Record, Oct. 24, 1895; cited by Ron G. Dobbins, NEARA Journal, v13, fall 1978)

* The skeleton of a huge man was uncovered at the Beckley farm, Lake Koronis, Minnesota; while at Moose Island and Pine City, bones of other giants came to light. (St. Paul Globe, Aug. 12, 1896)

* In 1911, several red-haired mummies ranging from 6 and a half feet to 8 feet tall were discovered in a cave in Lovelock, Nevada. click here for the full article

* In February and June of 1931, large skeletons were found in the Humboldt lake bed near Lovelock, Nevada. The first of these two skeletons found measured 8 1/2 feet tall and appeared to have been wrapped in a gum-covered fabric similiar to the Egyptian manner. The second skeleton was almost 10 feet long.(Review - Miner, June 19, 1931)

* A 7 foot 7 inch skeleton was reported to have been found on the Friedman ranch, near Lovelock, Nevada, in 1939.(Review - Miner, Sept. 29, 1939)

* In 1965, a skeleton measuring 8 feet 9 inches was found buried under a rock ledge along the Holly Creek in east-central Kentucky. click here for the full article

Giant Skeleton in Pennsylvania Mound

from Ancient Man: A Handbook of Puzzling Artifacts, William R Corliss, Sourcebook Project, 1978. American Antiquarian, 7:52, 1885.

A large Indian mound near the town of Gasterville, Pa., has recently been opened and examined by a committee of scientists sent out from the Smithsonian Institute. At some depth from the surface a kind of vault was found in which was discovered the skeleton of a giant measuring seven feet two inches. His hair was coarse and jet black, and hung to the waist, the brow being ornamented with a copper crown. The skeleton was remarkably well preserved. Near it were also found the bodies of several children of various sizes, the remains being covered with beads made of bone of some kind. Upon removing these, the bodies were seen to be enclosed in a net-work of straw or reeds, and beneath this was a covering of the skin of some animal. On the stones which covered the vault were carved inscriptions, and these when deciphered, will doubtless lift the veil that now shrouds the history of the race of people that one time inhabited this part of the American continent. The relics have been carefully packed and forwarded to the Smithsonian Institute, and they are said to be the most interesting collection ever found in the United States. The explorers are now at work on another mound in Barton county, Pa.

[Traveler]

This is from the inspired version JST. I have tried to look up more about these sons of God..

A person of another faith had said:

So I am trying to find out more about this scripture and explain what these giants are and how they really played a part in earth's history.

Any help would be appreciated!

The term sons of ---- is an ancient designation of a covenant.

On another note - someday from an ancient “Book of Secrets” we will learn about the “Rise of the Giants” that resulted in some of the many myths and legends of earth in antiquity. When you hear about this, sometime later – remember that “The Traveler” spoke of it at a time when such a thing could not be found.

The Traveler

[KosherXMorg]

I would have to disagree with Bro. Peterson's speculation. The scriptures say satan and those who followed him were in fact "angels", in the D&C we learn that angels are beings with perfect bodies and that they are different then ministering spirits. Having bodies they could have easily cohabited with mortal women, until the justice of YHWH was poured out on the earth in the flood and they were either removed from our dimension or extinguished from physical existence. Where do you think all the "myths" of evil, sinful multiple g-ds comes from?

[Guest Xzain]

I would have to disagree with Bro. Peterson's speculation. The scriptures say satan and those who followed him were in fact "angels", in the D&C we learn that angels are beings with perfect bodies and that they are different then ministering spirits.

Satan and his followers rebelled against the Plan of Salvation and did not want to go to earth. Not having kept their first estate, they would not have received physical bodies.

The term 'angel' actually has a few different meanings- the Doctrine and Covenants labels the one we think of most (beings with perfect bodies), but can also denote a spiritual being that does not yet have a body, or the spirit of one who lived and died and is waiting for a perfect, ressurected body.

[KosherXMorg]

Satan and his followers rebelled against the Plan of Salvation and did not want to go to earth. Not having kept their first estate, they would not have received physical bodies.

The term 'angel' actually has a few different meanings- the Doctrine and Covenants labels the one we think of most (beings with perfect bodies), but can also denote a spiritual being that does not yet have a body, or the spirit of one who lived and died and is waiting for a perfect, ressurected body.

So we can believe what scripture actually says about angelic beings or we can believe someones opinions about the physical makeup of angelic beings?

How to decide, how to decide?:confused:

[VisionOfLehi]

Scriptures also refer to satan's minions as angels.

Jude 1:6

2 Nephi 9:9

D&C 76:33,36,44

D&C 29:28,37

Matthew 25:41

Word Search: angels of devil

[KosherXMorg]

Scriptures also refer to satan's minions as angels.

Jude 1:6

2 Nephi 9:9

D&C 76:33,36,44

D&C 29:28,37

Matthew 25:41

Word Search: angels of devil

Uh, yeah, I know. Did you not read my first post? I don't believe satan and those who followed him were preexistent spirits like us, like you do. I believe they are either a separate class of created being or those who received exaltation from a former sphere (we NEVER lose our agency) and fell from that.

[VisionOfLehi]

Actually, looks like I misread your post. Read a "were" as "weren't" which changed my understanding of the rest.

You say you don't believe they were pre-existent... You don't accept PoGP as scripture?

[Justice]

After reading this thread I am especially thankful for having modern prophets and modern scripture.

As the world struggles to determine and agree what an angel is, I know.

As people try to figure out how these sons of God can be termed devils and intermix with human women, I know.

Because of modern revelation I know it is impossible for angels that were on earth before Christ to intermix with human women because they did not have a physical body. Christ was the first of all men (angels or otherwise) to be resurrected. I also know that angels are men that were sent to this earth, who were born and left this earth, or who have not been born yet. They are not a different creation. They are man also in a different stage of development. I know that Satan and his followers cannot intermix with human women because they will never have a body. I know that angels sent from the presence of God will never because those are just men made perfect through the Atonement of Christ, and would never choose contrary to God's will, or they would not be angels on His errands.

Thank you Joseph Smith and every prophet that followed.

[Hemidakota]

Lucifer minions...one needs to look into the past to see they were indeed like us but fallen from there state.

[KosherXMorg]

Actually, looks like I misread your post. Read a "were" as "weren't" which changed my understanding of the rest.

You say you don't believe they were pre-existent... You don't accept PoGP as scripture?

Please quote me the verse that you believe supports your position.

[Traveler]

I would have to disagree with Bro. Peterson's speculation. The scriptures say satan and those who followed him were in fact "angels",.....

I would be most interested if you could produce any scripture that tells us that Satan is an angel. I have heard this many times but I cannot find such a scripture.

The Traveler