Cal Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Don't tell the mormon church that. They very much count on being able to change the way people are. Quote
Guest lt Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 29 2004, 07:37 PM Don't tell the mormon church that. They very much count on being able to change the way people are. Cal lets not walk the line on critisizing the church.......it can be seen even through your little veil. lets stick to proof......unless it all ran out? Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 In Cal's defense, the Church does want to change people. They believe they are changing them for the better...perfecting them. Quote
Cal Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Laurel---are you saying I'm wrong---that the LDS church is not interested in changing the way people are? By the way, how is that necessarily a criticism. Some people need to change how they are...I applaud the church for trying. I just don't agree with the pitch line. Quote
Guest lt Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 There not trying to change people cal, they are trying to show people there is a better way of living when we live as christ does....If thats changing people then how does it follow gods plan in the begining for free agency? Showing someone the truth and making them follow it are two different steps. LaurelTree Quote
Cal Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Laurel--you need to read more carefully. I didn't say the church was FORCING people to change. It is simply trying to persuade them to do so. I was a missionary. I was part of it. By the way, you are mincing words by saying the church isn't trying to change people, just trying to show people a better way. Same result. You change them. Sure it is not forcing anybody. I'm simply pointing out the intentional outcome ie. to change people's religion from what ever they have, to mormonism. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Jan 29 2004, 08:02 PM In Cal's defense, the Church does want to change people. They believe they are changing them for the better...perfecting them. The church doesn't change people...people apply a few things given by the church...and they change.No one puts you on a stage and demands you do thus and so...anymore than a school does. Quote
AFDaw Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 29 2004, 05:46 PM Ray and AFDaw--I have no doubt that you "feel" lots of things--still doesn't have any meaning outside of you.Before you can convince me that you feel the love of God, you are going to have to convince me there is one. If I told you that I felt the love of my wife, but couldn't prove to you I had a wife, wouldn't you be a little skeptical? Cal - I have NEVER said that what I feel or believe has any meaning outside of me. In fact, that's what I've been trying to get you to understand, that regardless of what you think, I know what I think and that's ALL that matters.And I don't have to prove God exists to you. I'm not trying to prove that I can feel God's love and that I know God lives, because just like what I feel or believe has no meaning outside of me, what you feel and believe has no meaning outside of you. I do believe in God and I know he is real and that's all that matters, not what you think or believe. You're trying to prove to me he doesn't exist therefore I can't feel his love, which is something you can't do. Quote
StrawberryFields Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 In this post there have been some who have made statements of an imaginary God, or if God even exists. If someone who you had respect for can up to you and asked you if you believed in God...What would you say? What is really in your hearts? Are you anti Mormon or are you anti deity? Are you comfortable with denying God? Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Definitely. There are no gods that I'm aware of. Quote
StrawberryFields Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003@Jan 30 2004, 05:44 AM Definitely. There are no gods that I'm aware of. AS8,From what I gather from you, you used to be a TBM. I am also aware of some of the fallacies you find in the LDS church. Can I ask what happened to make you totally turn away from the belief in God? Quote
Setheus Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 AFDaw. I have not had the pleasure to meet you. Hello, I am Setheus. Quote
Guest bizabra Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Jan 30 2004, 12:14 AM In this post there have been some who have made statements of an imaginary God, or if God even exists. If someone who you had respect for can up to you and asked you if you believed in God...What would you say? What is really in your hearts? Are you anti Mormon or are you anti deity? Are you comfortable with denying God? I am comfortable with it. I deny god(s) existance. Quote
Ray Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@ Jan 29 2004, 06:04 PMRay--you are a master at missing the point.Interesting. I was thinking the same thing about you. Do you see that you didn’t see my point? If I tried to explain it to you one more time, do I think you might see my point? Let’s find out, shall we?Obviously one can talk himself into feeling anything.Do you have a knowledge of your wife’s love for you simply because you have talked yourself into believing that she does? Does she or doesn’t she? If she does truly love you, don’t you know it? And isn’t that real?I can feel the love of green monkeys in the refrigerator if I truly want to.Yes, many people are delusional. Many people think they see things or know things that are not real. But there are some things that are real, you know. Or don’t you know that? The difficult part is proving to anyone else that there actually are green monkeys in the fridge.If there truly are green monkeys in a refrigerator, that truth can be known. I’m assuming that people would be able to see green monkeys with their physical eyes. Invisible green monkeys might be a little harder to find. Love is just as real as anything else, but love is a feeling, and feelings are invisible. Does that mean that because you can’t see love with your physical eyes, you can’t know that it’s real? How very sad that would be.You say you don't have to convince me of anything. Of course you don't. And for your sake, it is a good thing you don't, because I suspect you can't.Your’re right. I truly can’t convince you of anything. All I can do is testify about what I know, and what I feel. I hope that you will give my testimony some serious consideration, but to do that you will first have to understand what I am trying to say to you. I hope my efforts this time will be more fruitful. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 There are good things and evil things and they don't just come from nowhere. They both have a source....the same source....agency/existence. You either are one or the other. No inbetweens. There are verying degrees of either...but all is either good or evil. Existence is the compound of good and evil ....like H2O, you won't get existence/agency without both parts of the compound. gods...are nothing more or less than undeveloped GODS. GODS are nothing more than ultimately developed gods who have mastered the laws of existence. There is no existence/agency without Gods. When you deny Gods or their offspring, you deny your own existence. LOL Quote
sgallan Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Question and answer.... I love question and answer..... If someone who you had respect for can up to you and asked you if you believed in God...What would you say?**** No. *** What is really in your hearts? ***** Blood, veins, muscle, etc.... *** Are you anti Mormon or are you anti deity?**** I'm not really anti-Mormon. I can't be anti-diety.... I don't believe such a thing exists. **** Are you comfortable with denying God? **** I cannot deny what I do not believe exists. That's logical fallacy. I am comfortable in saying I believe there is no such thing as a God. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 We can discuss these issues till the cows come home...the bottom line is...we don't have all the power to decree God lives or doesn't exist for others. One thing we must all agree on....everyone will die....what happens next is all out of yours and my hands. LOL Quote
StrawberryFields Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Jan 30 2004, 12:07 PM We can discuss these issues till the cows come home...the bottom line is...we don't have all the power to decree God lives or doesn't exist for others.One thing we must all agree on....everyone will die....what happens next is all out of yours and my hands. LOL True Peace... but my point in this question is how can we "logically" discuss religion with someone who believes in NO religion or No God? It is VERY POINTLESS. They who don't or won't believe for some reason will always cry out "FARCE" Those who believe will say "TRUTH". Surely, before that time the cows will have come home, feed, and put to bed. B) Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Jan 30 2004, 11:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Jan 30 2004, 11:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jan 30 2004, 12:07 PM We can discuss these issues till the cows come home...the bottom line is...we don't have all the power to decree God lives or doesn't exist for others.One thing we must all agree on....everyone will die....what happens next is all out of yours and my hands. LOL True Peace... but my point in this question is how can we "logically" discuss religion with someone who believes in NO religion or No God? It is VERY POINTLESS. They who don't or won't believe for some reason will always cry out "FARCE" Those who believe will say "TRUTH". Surely, before that time the cows will have come home, feed, and put to bed. B) LOL...absolutely...I guess all we can do is witness the truth...Mosiah 18: 9 9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—Interestingly enough maybe doing good works for others is the strongest witness...'that they may see our good works and glorify their Father which is in heaven...'It might be debate/discussion is the worst way to try and spread the light. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.