Nice Guys

[Misshalfway]

Of course guys are going for the 'trophy wife.' But a lot of that has to do with the structure of our dating system. First you meet, then you small talk, then you go on a few dates, and then it gets serious. When you go through those steps, your criteria for selecting a potential mate start of physical.

Very often, the guys that end up marrying someone who doesn't fit the accepted standard of beauty are the guys that developed friendships with these women before they developed romantic interests.

Then there's the fact that in our subculture we pressure our young men to get married before they've developed the emotional maturity to look beyond physical features.

Ahhhhhh. Those poor guys. Everything against them. Being forced by society and dating rituals and all that conditioning to only want the trophy! I guess that idea that guys could think on their own, have the patience and actually get to know someone is just a rediculous notion. How silly of me!!

Edited June 21, 2008 by Misshalfway

[VisionOfLehi]

Sociologically speaking, there's a lot going against men (and women, too.)

They're "conditioned" to look for certain things. (And women are "conditioned" to try and make themselves look like that, too.)

[Misshalfway]

So we are conditioned! But we are intelligent beings are we not? We can think beyond our impulses! I mean come on! Relationships that are based in such shallow ground will surely fail....or at least plague your heart! Ok, so we are attracted to this or that but to write off the rest of potential mates because they don't fit a profile is like eating only olives on a thanksgiving buffet. You miss a lot if not the whole point of dating in the first place!

[VisionOfLehi]

If people don't realize their conditioning, they won't fight against it.

If they don't care, they won't either.

C'est la vie.

[Misshalfway]

Alas, my fight for great, non airbrushed men and women everywhere is in vain........

[beefche]

Alas, my fight for great, non airbrushed men and women everywhere is in vain........

<snort> Keep on keeping on.

[Islander]

If people don't realize their conditioning, they won't fight against it.

If they don't care, they won't either.

C'est la vie.

Indeed, it is a sad reality. We can not escape our awareness until someone points to the door. And even then some hesitate. Even when they want to escape they fear the unknown, they are uncomfortable with the proposed change.

A (male) friend who lost his wife to a car crash 2 years ago posted a personal on an LDS singles site early in the year. He said about 12 women responded and 10 of them asked him for a picture!!! Never mind that he has a graduate degree, is a worthy priesthood holder, A RM, an entrepreneur and 29 yrs old. The "looks" were more important. "So they should keep looking..... and waiting", my friend said.

It works both ways, I was just using this particular case as an example. It is true that, primarily, men are visually enticed. I think it is a silly and misguided fantasy but there you have it. As they get older reality sets in and they become less exigent. The search for more attributes than just external, temporary/makeup enhanced traits. But still, something has to catch their eyes. That response is hardwired into the brain.

[ampat777]

He said about 12 women responded and 10 of them asked him for a picture!!! Never mind that he has a graduate degree, is a worthy priesthood holder, A RM, an entrepreneur and 29 yrs old. The "looks" were more important. "So they should keep looking..... and waiting", my friend said.

I think it´s ok and not mean to ask for a picture. BUT it´s really sad if they just ignore you after you sent the pic or if you won´t send one imediately. It´s ok not to like someones looks and understandable but it´s rude just to ignore him/her if you have been in contact before.

But I also dislike the ones that just look at a job title and nothing else.

[UTKat50]

I don't think anything is wrong with asking for a pic....we are all too old to play that silly 'blind date' game. My photo has always been on my profiles....what you see is what you get. If I'M not afraid to post MY not-so-attractive-self ( I'm WELL aware I'm no J-Lo) then the guys shoudln't 'hide' his looks either. Thats not fair that he can see me and I can't see him. There's NO way I could ever fall for someone I can't even see, no matter how well he talks or what his job is, yadda yadda. I'm not here to find the 'Invisible Man' for an eternal companion. It's the whole package or nuttin', dude...:-)

I'm not saying a guy has to be "George Clooney"....lol....but everyone would agree there HAS to be SOME kind of chemistry! And I have been attracted to men who are a little overwieght and balding! So go figure! lol..it's the way I'm TREATED by a man...like a princess and a lady...that makes my knees weak...!

[MikeUpton]

I don't think anything is wrong with asking for a pic....we are all too old to play that silly 'blind date' game. My photo has always been on my profiles....what you see is what you get.

That sort of attitude is attractive.

[KuriChan]

So we are conditioned! But we are intelligent beings are we not? We can think beyond our impulses! I mean come on! Relationships that are based in such shallow ground will surely fail....or at least plague your heart! Ok, so we are attracted to this or that but to write off the rest of potential mates because they don't fit a profile is like eating only olives on a thanksgiving buffet. You miss a lot if not the whole point of dating in the first place!

If there is one thing I have learned in life and my psychology major about people is that people are governed much more by emotion than reason. And, as we know, emotion has little to nothing to do with reason.

[beefche]

So, what are you trying to say? That because we are ruled by emotions that we cannot/won't use reason? I think at some point, we all have to grow up (about a lot of things).

When it comes to dating, I think we all need to tone down our want list. I remember when I was a lot younger, my list of requirements for a husband included some of the dumbest things--must be able to sing, court me with romantic words, have blue eyes, etc. Pluh-leeze. That is just dumb and immature on my part.

As I've gotten older, I realized how shallow and narrow minded that was. I am of the opinion that you should always have a 2nd date (unless the 1st date was too horrendous; horrendous meaning some grievous error was committed). Why? Because all of us are nervous and unsure when we first go out with someone. I am not my complete self on a 1st date. Not even on a 2nd date, but at least I've gotten over the initial nervousness and can relax more.

[Misshalfway]

If there is one thing I have learned in life and my psychology major about people is that people are governed much more by emotion than reason. And, as we know, emotion has little to nothing to do with reason.

Are you saying that my emotions are not reasonable?

Of course! I completely agree. Even all these guys that claim to be logical, science following, intellectuals are running on emotion too. I just hope that the emotion felt when dating comes from the heart and mind and not just exclusively knee jerk sex drive reactions. I am reminded of a funny, eye rolling mission moment. Pretty new sister missionary shows up in the mish from the Phillipines. Elder X's eyes were completely glued! He was frozen in his tracks. I think he literally had his tongue hanging out! We all had to yell, "Snap out of it." Poor girl. She thought Elder's stopped being boys. :)

Edited June 25, 2008 by Misshalfway

[checkerboy]

All I know is that I have to be physically attracted to a girl to consider dating her. Now here is the catch. If she is smokin' hot but treats me like crap she is gone. I would rather take the less hot girl that treats me nice. Notice I said less hot though. There has still got to be that attraction. And really their are only three things I am looking for in a potential spouse: 1. Testimony 2. Looks 3. The ability to forgive and move on with life.

[Misshalfway]

All I know is that I have to be physically attracted to a girl to consider dating her. Now here is the catch. If she is smokin' hot but treats me like crap she is gone. I would rather take the less hot girl that treats me nice. Notice I said less hot though. There has still got to be that attraction. And really their are only three things I am looking for in a potential spouse: 1. Testimony 2. Looks 3. The ability to forgive and move on with life.

Thank you. I feel validated!!!

[VisionOfLehi]

Alas, my fight for great, non airbrushed men and women everywhere is in vain........

I don't wear make up!

[Misshalfway]

Relief!!! I was worried! (no...just kidding ya)

[beefche]

All I know is that I have to be physically attracted to a girl to consider dating her. Now here is the catch. If she is smokin' hot but treats me like crap she is gone. I would rather take the less hot girl that treats me nice. Notice I said less hot though. There has still got to be that attraction. And really their are only three things I am looking for in a potential spouse: 1. Testimony 2. Looks 3. The ability to forgive and move on with life.

Well, of course you are entitled to your opinion and we can't very well judge you for that. Wait....we are on a public forum which means OF COURSE we can judge you.

I understand what you're saying, but I also think someone can become more attractive to us as we get to know them. I always think of the geeky boy I knew in high school with whom I was friends. He was not someone considered attractive and I certainly didn't think of him in those terms. I just enjoyed being around him. As time went on and I got to know him better, he became more and more physically attractive to me. Taught me a lesson that physical attraction does not have to be a "love at first sight" type of feeling--at least for me.

[Truegrits]

And the converse to that is...you liking a really attractive person, but the more you are with them/get to know them, the less attractive they become! Looks can not hold a candle to character, personality, ideals. Those qualities will far out last looks.

[Misshalfway]

All I know is that I have to be physically attracted to a girl to consider dating her. Now here is the catch. If she is smokin' hot but treats me like crap she is gone. I would rather take the less hot girl that treats me nice. Notice I said less hot though. There has still got to be that attraction. And really their are only three things I am looking for in a potential spouse: 1. Testimony 2. Looks 3. The ability to forgive and move on with life.

So what if she is hot and you are not?????? Not saying that you aren't. :) Just seems interesting to me that it is important to some men to have the hot babe, but don't seem to think it is important to try to be one.

And what if she is hot, and falls in love with you, but thinks you are a nice above average? What then?

Edited June 25, 2008 by Misshalfway

[VisionOfLehi]

I don't like and don't use the term "hot." It seems to be objectifying their body.

I certainly do look for a gorgeous/beautiful/cute girl. HOW cute they are often depends on how they treat me and other people. I've seen some attractive girls that ceased to be attractive when I got sight of their attitude.

When I (and probably other guys) say that there needs to be some physical attraction, I don't think I have this stereotypical and very precise idea of what she should look like in my mind. I guess you could say I have very broad tastes, and that there's a lot of girls I find attractive where many of my friends just don't see it.

Also, that stereotypical Barbie, or gals with over-done hair and tons of make-up? Those are turn offs for me.

I'm sure I'm not the only guy who thinks so.

[Misshalfway]

I don't like and don't use the term "hot." It seems to be objectifying their body.

I certainly do look for a gorgeous/beautiful/cute girl. HOW cute they are often depends on how they treat me and other people. I've seen some attractive girls that ceased to be attractive when I got sight of their attitude.

When I (and probably other guys) say that there needs to be some physical attraction, I don't think I have this stereotypical and very precise idea of what she should look like in my mind. I guess you could say I have very broad tastes, and that there's a lot of girls I find attractive where many of my friends just don't see it.

Also, that stereotypical Barbie, or gals with over-done hair and tons of make-up? Those are turn offs for me.

I'm sure I'm not the only guy who thinks so.

You are restoring my faith in man-kind! :)

[VisionOfLehi]

Well... I'm an oddity Don't get your hopes too high, lol.

[Jbs2763]

one thing i have observed in life is the more you care about someone the more attravtive they become

[Islander]

I have my own non-scientific theories about "hot people" and that goes for males and females.

In my limited but certainly fully aware experience, very good looking people (those commonly and erroneously called "hot") make very poor mates and even less statistically reliable companions over a lifespan.

I hope to avoid hurting anyone's sensibilities here, but these are folks with a super inflated and adulterated sense of self. They tend to be perfectionists, exacting and demanding, self-centered, self-serving and unrealistic. They see outer "beauty" as an asset to be leveraged for social and economic advancement. In other words, very high maintenance people.

Just for the sake of some basic empirical analysis, my wife and I sat down not long ago and looked at our our female friends and family and rated them on a 1-10 scale. We were looking at plastic surgery, vanity, self perception (theirs) and our assessment of the quality of their lives. The top five (lookers, sort of) had silicon enhancements, were engaged in a frantic struggle to stop time and their lives were a study in misery. The only one guy (we considered) no longer comes to our home and family gatherings on account of his promiscuity. His decision, by the way.

So, there you have it. "Beauty" is subjective, rather vague, overrated, expensive to maintain and impossible to hold on to. And that is our family assessment, in general. Of course, that does not preclude some beautiful people inside and out from being truly the salt of the earth. We just think they are few and far between.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Islander