Eternal Marriage Problems??!

[PapilioMemnon]

Many people have given you great answers, it really seems that you don't accept them, and there's really nothing any of us can do, only Heavenly Father! That's why we said to pray... only through personal revelation about certain issues that you seem to have with HIS Church, and the way HE designated who does what in HIS kingdom is the way that HE will be able to help you understand things. We must understand before we can come to accept sometimes.

Do you research more thoroughly about Joseph Smith, the priesthood, men and women's roles in the church!

I'm a woman, and perfectly content that men hold the priesthood, and am perfectly contect with my responsibility to bear children, nurture, care, and teach HIS spiritual children, aside from doing much more in HIS kingdom where I can serve as much as priesthood holders, just not necessarily hold the same positions, and I'm perfectly content with that because I KNOW that Heavenly Father is NOT biased... I KNOW that Heavenly Father simply distributed responsibility... and frankly, caring for HIS spiritual children is NOT a small matter at all!!! Ponder that!

Now, because I'm a woman, and still have the "natural" woman in me, I don't necessarily like the idea of sharing someone I love with another woman... but guess what? I wouldn't have to right now anyways, and if I had to for some reason... I KNOW Heavenly Father would help me through it, and with my feelings... and the "natural" woman would be a thing of the past because HE would help and assure me of things; that I KNOW! And IF I ever make to the Celestial Kingdom (Which is my primary goal)... I firmly believe that I'd have grown in MUCH understanding of HIS laws, HIS ways, HIS decisions on how things are done... I'd be MUCH more HUMBLE than I currently am... because humbleness, like our Savior's, is required of us... "Not mine FAther, but THY WIL BE DONE!" and I'm willing to do HIS WILL no matter what the immediate consequences will be... I care about the eternal ones only!

I'd suggest you to work on basic doctrine & teachings, and check your feelings regarding them, the church, and Heavenly Father Himself! It seems the ways of the world influences a lot of your view about men & women and our different responsibilities, not more or less important, just different! Please pray that you'll understand how Heavenly Father does, not the world!

I highly suggest that you hear some talks from Sheri Dew, a magnificent woman!

Just go to BYU Broadcasting | Find A Talk Database & type Sheri Dew, or click on Women's Conference Talks and click on the topics you have concerns.

Peace! Be well!

[Islander]

It's funny that no matter what topic I start, the only thing it comes back to is - "Pray, Have faith, etc..."

You don't think I do that? I haven't made up my mind yet, like you suggest. I am constantly searching for answers, which is why I am here. But it seems no one can fess up to the truth, or at least recognize that what I say has some value.

You know good and well that the fact that women can't have the Priesthood makes NO sense.

You also know that not allowing both men and women to be able to be sealed to more than one person makes no sense.

Men and women are equal but different, and everything a man is offered by the hand of God or the prophet or whatever, should also be offered to a woman. And vice versa. Not biological traits. That's completely different.

Once again....no one can answer me. I just got my new temple reccommend yesterday, and asked the Bishop all these things. He seemed to understand me.

Ultimatley, the only answer is "We don't know."

Sister, you received your recommend recently but you demonstrate a limited understanding of the Gospel, the revelation of this dispensation and the doctrine of the kingdom. It will take some time for you to be able to understand and comprehend many important things. It will be thru obedience, faith, study and prayer that you will get there.

If you went to the temple recently I think you did not hear, understood or remember much of what was said there. Go back and try to concentrate. Also, did you notice that the sisters DO absolutely the same and officiate as the brethren do on their side of the endowment session?

I hope you would pause and reflect on what has been posted here. Perhaps words alone can not convey the love and concern we feel for you. The endowment is a beautiful thing and carries great promises but also great responsibilities. Words also fail to convey the urgency and our heartfelt desire for you to grasp that it is much you risk should you fail to understand and live up to you temple covenant.

I hope you would consider these things and continue to study, ponder and pray that the Spirit may reveal to you what you need to give your heart certainty and rest.

My wife and I send our love to you and your family.

[NormalMormon]

Geez. Everyone's so angry.

Okay, I'm a convert. But maybe instead of trying to convert people in the shortest time possible, we should focus on teaching the REAL and TRUE things. EVERYTHING. Not just SOME things, then wait until they get baptized, and say "Oh by the way, we think this too."

Sorry if I was wrong, but even if we didn't let people of African descent have the Priesthood for "specific" reasons, that doesn't make sense either. What reasons? Why? Because ALL of them weren't worthy? Because of their ancestors? Why?

Women are so quick to accept not having the Priesthood and polygamy in Heaven, and no bat an eye because it's what HE would want us to do. FINE. But what about MEN? They don't have to withstand their wives being with other men, and asking for God to help them through it. They don't have to worry at all about if their feelings would be hurt in the eternities or not. Men don't have to worry about it, because it seems they get the "better" end of the deal here. I will constantly worry if I will have to share the man I love with another in Heaven. I will constantly wonder why God won't allow women to have the Priesthood. Men don't have to.

And you may find offense that I think women should have the priesthood, but it's MUCH MUCH MUCH more offensive when you say they can't, shouldn't, and never will. Still...it makes no sense at all.

Roles are different.

God wants it like this.

Pray about it.

If you believe in the BoM, you must believe in this.

Well, I understand all your answers. I accept some of them. I will believe in what I WANT to believe in. I will continue to search the Book of Mormon without outside influences other than prayer. I won't put this all in the back of my mind, or teach my children just to accept it and bear their verbatim testimonies on the stand. It's not like I will be leaving the church or anything.

And by the way, I asked ALL my questions to the Bishop. ALL of them. Everything I've asked here. We talked for almost two hours. He seemed to think I was perfectly worthy of going to the temple. Keep in mind, I haven't been judging anyone else or making rude comments like "how could you even go to the temple?"

People don't all have to have the same testimony. I would encourage each of you to break the mold a little and do some soul searching. The exact same words are pouring out of each of your mouths. Perhaps it's because they are true. Maybe it's because you've been conditioned to think that way. In any case, I've read every single comment on here. EVERY ONE. I don't discount any arguments. It just seems that the longer we go on, the angrier people get. Absolutely no one can see where I am coming from and it feels like you'd rather have me be out of the church, than to either a) accept it or b) strive to change it.

[NormalMormon]

Islander - Thanks for the comment. As of yet, I haven't gotten my endowment. Maybe that's what I need? I don't know. I'm so sad, angry, and frustrated.

[PapilioMemnon]

I'm sorry if you got the impression I'm (We're) angry at you.. That is far from reality. We problably got that impression from you as well because of the use of some rude expressions to convey your point or your husband's comment.

I'm just sharing with you my thoughts, feelings, and testimony I have of Heanvly Father, Jesus Christ, His church, and the Restored Gospel!

By the way, I'm also a convert! And no, I was NOT conditioned to accept things or see things that way... If you read what I wrote, you'd have noticed that. I just came to know that for myself, yes, through faith, prayer, and fasting! Basic principles! They are awesome... I work on basics all the time; they are the foundation of all other things!!!

No one is judging you; we are just trying to help you work on basic trues and basic principles before you go ahead to try to make higher covenants and learn higher doctrine when it seems that you don't have understanding of basic ones. That's all!

No one said you're not worth it of going to the temple; only God, you, and your Bishop can determine that.

We care... it's a little hard to show that through written words on a forum though. I used CAPS, bold letters, italics to emphasize, nothing else!

When we learn and understand the way the Lord works, sees, does things... we grown in HIS knowledge, and our faith strengthens... our FEELINGS change! The gift of understanding is precious! Knowing as we know what we read, words, letters is different than knowing with understanding; kowing with understanding makes things clear... and feelings with understanding change!

If I ever reach Celestial Kingdom, the level He is at, to be in HIS presence, my feelings, thoughts, mind will have changed from the mortal being I am now to what He helped me achieve, and become; I will not be the same one with the same thoughts, and feelings I have now... The process to become like HIM changes us in ALL things! Mortal jealousies/cares/worries/... will all be left behind!

Peace! Be well! Wishing you the best as you try to learn and understand things, to view them as Heavenly Father views them!

[NormalMormon]

Thanks. Honestly, I think that one day I'll find peace about these subjects.

Being in the church is better than being without it. I'd rather live it, than let something like inequality stand in my way.

[Vanhin]

NormalMormon,

And for the record I'm not angry at you either... What's there to be angry about anyway?

I'll admit it. I have been conditioned to believe what I believe.

Whenever I was younger, I left the Church for a while, and got into somethings that were difficult for me to get out of. I finally hit rock bottom, and decided to change my life. However, it was easier said than done. Try as I might, I could not save myself from my situation.

I began reading the scriptures again, especially the Book of Mormon, and praying. My prayers we pleadings, and I would beg God for help. Over time, and after many failures, I realized that as I was obedient to even the least of the commandments, God would bless me with strength and understanding. My mind was enlightened, and I felt the Spirit back in my life more fully.

On one eventful evening, I made a promise to God, that if he would spare me, and take away my addictions and forgive me of my sins, I would forsake them. I went to bed that night, and woke up the next morning delivered from bondage. I have kept my end of the bargain, and have never returned to those old ways, and those sins were remitted. It is the greatest miracle in my life! Forgiveness that is...

I learned that we should have faith in Christ, turn to God for answers, and be willing to be obedient. Then God would answer our prayers with deliverance, forgiveness, and wisdom. We receive no witness until after the trial of our faith. And that has been the pattern of my progression; to feel the Spirit and act on those feelings. That's how we progress, and we are conditioned by God to be the men and women He wants us to be. I am definetly a conditioned person, because of Christ and his Atonement, and my willingness to be obedient.

When I say I know this or that, I really mean it. Truth is truth, and it's no wonder that others who also have received a witness of the Spirit, because of their faith and obedience, have come to the same answers and conclusions that others have come to.

NormalMormon, God has done everything for you and me to help us return to his presence, without taking away our agency. There is nothing you have that belongs to you, that you can give to him in return... except your agency. Your willingness to let go of your wants and harmonize your will with his is the only thing you and I have to offer. That's what the Savior did. It is paramount that we seek his will and adopt it as our own if we are to return to his presence. We must be one with Father, as the Savior is. That's what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[VisionOfLehi]

Sorry if I was wrong, but even if we didn't let people of African descent have the Priesthood for "specific" reasons, that doesn't make sense either. What reasons? Why? Because ALL of them weren't worthy? Because of their ancestors? Why?

And you may find offense that I think women should have the priesthood, but it's MUCH MUCH MUCH more offensive when you say they can't, shouldn't, and never will. Still...it makes no sense at all.

The African descent was do to being descendants of Ham.

I don't find it offensive that you think women should have the priesthood. Sometime they will (not necessarily before the 2nd Coming, but I don't know). But I find it offensive that you say that's man-made doctrine and not God-given.

As for the whole "women being angry" argument against polygamy... You think it'd be so fantastic to be a man with more than one wife?

Wives have needs, just like everyone else. Husbands are supposed to take care of some of those needs. Add in another wife or two and he's got a lot more on his plate. What about the constant worrying about whether you treat one better than another? Do you love them all the same, or one more? Does it show? Are they angry at you?

And I spent a few days in a house with 4 females (12, 15, 18, mom... there was a 10 yr old, too but she wasn't a problem ), and the CATTINESS and difficulty there was. The dad was pretty weary dealing with just them and their needs, and only one was a wife!

It's not all sex and games.

I'm a recent convert, too. 19 months.

I don't feel as if there were things I wasn't taught because they wanted to keep it from me. "Oh, by the way."

I went into it KNOWING I didn't know all of the doctrine, but knowing I wasn't ready for all of it, that I had to learn basics first. If you get a testimony of the Lord, and the Book of Mormon, and modern prophets, then the rest comes with that in time.

Some of it bothered me when I joined! But I decided to get baptized with the thought "Right now I don't know or like all of it, but I know it's because it's all new to me, and that eventually I'll understand."

Lastly, here's a quote for you:

We become like our Heavenly Parents by using their lives and roles as a pattern for our own. In fact, the roles we fulfill on earth prepare us for our eternal roles. In other words, the earthly family is the training ground for the heavenly family. In the family, men learn to become like Heavenly Father by exercising the priesthood and women learn to become like Heavenly Mother by bearing and nurturing children.

By magnifying their callings in the priesthood, men are saved because they have learned to perform Heavenly Father's work:

"For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies. They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God. And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord; For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me; And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father; And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father's kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him. And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood." (Doctrine and Covenants 84:33-9)

By bearing and nurturing children, women are saved because they have learned to perform Heavenly Mother's work:

"[Women] shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." (The Holy Bible, 1 Timothy 2:15)

"[F]or [wives] are given unto [their husbands] to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." (Doctrine and Covenants 132:63)

Since "Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose." (See The Family: A Proclamation to the World), men and women cannot exchange their natural roles. As noted by President Kimball above, "these are eternal differences." President David O. McKay counseled:

[MrNirom]

I was just reading about this this morning. It is from Fair See here

It is often not the Lord's pattern to give reasons for His commandments. Any "reasons" which we attach, in retrospect, to plural marriage can only be based on supposition and intelligent deduction.

Any such list as this is tentative. But, it reminds us plural marriage may have accomplished more than we sometimes appreciate. Some benefits which have been suggested include:

1. It was to try (prove) His people. Polygamy stood as an Abrahamic test for the saints. The willingness to obey a commandment that was inherently distasteful to the vast majority of the members of the Church allowed members to draw close to the Lord.

2. It was to "raise up" righteous seed. Specifically it allowed a relatively few righteous men to become very prolific in a time when the West was very wild and there were many unrighteous men. Children were raised in more households with a strong gospel commitment.

3. It served to "set apart" his people as a peculiar people to the world. This social isolation that gave the church space to solidify itself into an identity independent of the many denominations from which the membership was derived. Sociologists have discovered that in order for a religion to successfully grow it has to be demanding and it has to experience a moderate amount of tension with its host society. The RLDS Church rejected plural marriage and coincidently are small in number and now virtually indistinguishable from Protestants.

4. Polygamy was part of the "restoration of all things," and a way for Mormons to feel connected with prophets like Abraham and Jacob. 19th century Mormons gained a greater appreciation for covenants that these forefathers made with God.

5. Numerous family ties that were created, building a network of associations that strengthened the Church.

6. Arguably polygamy affected higher natural growth rates. Ironically plural wives had fewer children than their monogamous Mormon counterparts. [2]

7. Polygamy created a system where a higher percentage of women and men got married compared to the national average at the time. [3]

8. Plural marriages increased competition in the marriage market, so the "slacker" and "loser" men had to work to improve their standing to compete. They had to clean up, try to get good jobs, and treat the women with respect. It gave the women more options as to whom to marry.

9. Out on the frontier in 19th century life expectancy was low and women were not as economically independent as they are today. Therefore there was a large amount of widows (and orphans coming of age) that needed to be taken care of. Furthermore Brigham instituted the most liberal divorce in the country so women (but not men!) could get out of unhappy marriages. Kathryn Daynes estimated that 30% of plural marriages came from married-before women. [4]

10. Church Historian Elder Jensen's observed how Mormon polygamy enabled women more freedom to earn college degrees and join national women's rights organizations at the time. [5]

11. Polygamy helped integrate foreign immigrants into Mormon society. With the marriage market operating so efficiently and women highly sought after, Utah men had to sometimes marry outside their preferred cultural boundaries. This provided a great way to redistribute the wealth to the immigrants families coming. [6]

12. Plural marriages provided a social support network while the husbands were off on missions.

Concerning blacks and the priesthood.. again from FAIR.

Circumstances which preceded the 1978 revelation

In 1954, after visiting the struggling South African mission, David O. McKay began to consider lifting the ban. In a conversation with Sterling McMurrin, he said, "It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice will some day be changed."[4]

This was a departure from a 1949 First Presidency statement defending the ban as doctrinal, indicating a shift in his opinion. Leonard Arrington reported that President McKay formed a special committee of the Twelve that "concluded there was no sound scriptural basis for the policy but that church membership was not prepared for its reversal."[5]

However, David O. McKay felt that only a revelation could end the ban. Sometime between 1968 and his death in 1970 he confided his prayerful attempts to church architect, Richard Jackson, "I’ve inquired of the Lord repeatedly. The last time I did it was late last night. I was told, with no discussion, not to bring the subject up with the Lord again; that the time will come, but it will not be my time, and to leave the subject alone."[6].

As McKay's health declined, his counselor, Hugh B. Brown, attempted to lift the ban as an administrative decision. However, it became even clearer that a century of precedent was difficult to reverse without a revelation, especially when some members and leaders—echoing George Q. Cannon—felt there might be a revelatory basis for the policy.

As the church expanded its missionary outreach and temple building programs, leaders continued to run into problems of black ancestry preventing the building of local leadership in certain areas, most notably Brazil. The prayerful attempts to obtain the will of God intensified. Finally in June 1978, a revelation that "every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood" was received and later canonized as Official Declaration 2.

[lilered]

Were you aware that the priesthood was not withheld from all black people or people of color, only those of African decent?

The following three men, for example, could have held the priesthood during the ban as long as they were worthy of it.

If it was about racism, then why didn't the Church withold the priesthood from other blacks and people of color?

I don't know why you keep bringing up the priesthood ban in conjunction with this topic. It really has nothing to do with women and the priesthood.

Regards,

Vanhin

You do not have permission to use me or my counselers photos!! Please do not do so again.

[Iggy]

I just got my new temple reccommend yesterday, and asked the Bishop all these things. He seemed to understand me.

Ultimatley, the only answer is "We don't know."

Have you been to the Stake President for your interview with him and to have him sign your recommend?

If not, be sure to tell him the exact same things that you said to your Bishop.

[PapilioMemnon]

I just wanted to share a scripture with you:

Colossians 1

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the aknowledge of his bwill in all wisdom and spiritual cunderstanding;

Warm regards,