Eternal Marriage Problems??!

[MrNirom]

Thanks for the answers....but I still didn't get a straight answer to my questions, so here they are again.

According to DOCTRINE, and the PROPHET, what is our stance on this. A woman marries a man in the temple, has children with him, then he dies. She then gets married to another man, and has children with him. Let's say she has bad luck, and he dies too. Then she gets married again (if she's brave) and has children with the next man. So now she has been sealed to THREE men, with children from each of them. What happens in eternity? What if it were reversed, and the man had all his wives pass away?

I don't understand how they were trying to "trick" the Savior? Please explain better.

Women can only be sealed once. If she was sealed to her first husband.. she would marry her next husband "until death to they part" only. Same if her 2nd husband died and she married a 3rd.

Now.. there has been cancellations of sealings for women so they can be sealed to another for all time and eternity. But I don't know what the rules are for that. From my understanding.. the First Presidency are the only ones who can cancel a sealing.

If someone else knows different.. speak up.

[PapilioMemnon]

In this mortal probation, we are to follow the lord's footsteps in all things. As we progress, we gain (or should) be gaining understanding, and as thins happens, we begin to see things through Heavenly Father's eyes, and not mortal ones; we begin to be like Him.

In mortality, we are all affected with the disease of pride and all sort of spiritual infirmities that spring from it; jealousy/competition are part of it. As President Benson said on his talk "Beware of Pride," the core of pride is enmity (state of opposition/hatred) towards God, and others. We pit our will/intelect against His, and others... Eliminate the element of competition, and pride is gone! Humility is the antidote for that poison.

Here's the link if you'd like to read the talk (Highly suggest): http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1989.htm/ensign%20may%201989.htm/beware%20of%20pride.htm

As we progress towards Heavenly Father, as we get rid of the "natural" man/woman, we begin to see things with different eyes...because we have understanding... and as we gain more and more understanding, and grow in knowledge of truth, we are more willing to do Father's will instead of ours. Also, we are filled with charity (Charity is a required gift we must come to possess by the way), and when we have charity, we have the pure love of Christ and that does not include jealousy, envying, etc... common to men/women in mortality. Charity is above all other gifts, and the one we should diligently seek after, and great will be the blessings to those who possess it.

Any person who makes to the Celestial realm will not have the same mind of a mortal becasue the same has worked to improve it, has grown in pure knowledge of the truth, and has come to see & understand things as the Lord does, and they are the ones who accept the will of God above anything else, especially above thier own.

I know Heavenly Father has my best interest in mind, and yours too, and I have come to know that without a shadow of a doubt, and I completely trust Him, and his ways.

Consider the fact that women outnumber men by far... really far...; consider the fact that Heavenly Father wants to give ALL His daughters the opportunity to receive the blessings of eternities, but unfortunately, there are not enough men available... or willing... or believing...or faithful... whatever it is... So, should women not be given the same benefits for lack of men? Consider the fact that the Lord would never command something just to satisfy someone's own desires, but righteousness; the other issue to consider is the ability to bring children into the world or through out the eternities...

If we try to see the issue of poligamy in the celestial realm with the eyes and feelings of mortal beings, we will never understand or accept it, at least not easily!

Do you attend institute? If not, I highly recommend it! I definitely suggest you to pray and ask about this in faith, that you approach your Heavenly Father as you'd a best friend, and as you have approached this forum... and ask Him those things, and ask Him to help you with your feelings and understanding.

I attended an Institute couse on Eternal Marriage a few years ago, and it clarified many, many things.... It was the best thing I did! I did my research, studied all the lessons given, went prepared, and asked lots of questions

I would never want to give up a place in the Celestial realm, where I can see my Heavenly Father & Mother again because of something so little... as I have come to understand... I'm suggesting you that because I have walked the walk... I had the same feelings about it, although my testimony never faltered because of it... I just had a hard time accepting it... until... through time... I was answered in increments... and my understanding was expanded and then... I came to see and understand things... and this has really become insignificant... if not completely insignificant as He has expanded my eternal perspective...

I hope this helps! If you'd like you can pm me...

p.s.: About the sealing to THREE men... if a woman is sealed to a first husband, and then gets divorced or becomes a widow, she can marry again, either for this life only, or she can request to dissolve her previous sealing (She has to have someone to be sealed to to request that), and then be sealed to the second husband, and so forth (Some procedures need to be done for that though)

I've searched, inquired, and talked to my bishop about it, and that's what I've been told

Now... if I can only find ....

Children remain sealed to the parent who is faithful to the covenants made.

The Lord sorts out any other issue we really have no answer for it... or knowledge of how it's done. I just trust Him!

Edited July 2, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[PapilioMemnon]

NormalMormon:

Me thinks, If one truly believes that Gods Word is to be obeyed, then that means all of his Doctorine, not just those parts we find agreeable or to our liking. I personally find it extremly challenging to keep one women happy most of the time, and can't imagine trying to keep a concubine happy. That would fall under the heading of "Mission Impossible".

[Heavenguard]

I do not believe in or subscribe to celestial marriage at all, however I did ask some similar questions about it a little earlier. I think you'll find the thread a good read: http://www.lds.net/forums/learn-about-mormon-church/12241-marriage.html

Regarding that polygamy was in the bible and discussed through it, I'd like to point out that just because something is in the bible, it does not necessarily mean the action or principle is condoned, even if it's about a bible "Superhero". For example, David having an affair with Bathsheba, and his multiple attempts at covering it up, and finally signing off on a death command for him. This was not an example of things as they should be, but an example of how things should not be. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, although I personally don't agree with it, but "It's in the bible" can't be used as a defense or argument unless the passages are more specific.

Some just seem to get caught up on the Priesthood/Males issue.

But no one ever complains that God sent a male Savior!

If the saviour were a woman, do you believe for a moment that the female-Jesus would have been paid any attention whatsoever by the people in the heavily male-dominated society of the day? Women were not people, women's testimonies were not testimonies at all, women could not hold any form of citizenship, and so on. A female Jesus would have been denied any and every credibility as a witness to even him (her) self.

[NormalMormon]

I actually talked to my bishop about this last night, and things ended up making sense. He told me that YES a woman can be sealed to more than one man - if the first one dies.

This still doesn't make up for the fact that men can be sealed to thirty wives at once.

I understand all the reasoning behind it....but get this....

Last night as soon as I got home, I told me husband about it. He was so infuriated that the Bishop told me that women can have more than one husband that he flipped out and called his dad to see if it was true. After some talking to, his dad convinced him....

Later, jokingly (and I might get kicked out for this....) my husband said something to the effect of...

"When I'm [lewd term for sex] 18 other queens..." Talking about the celestial kingdom....

We aren't ready to get sealed, the wedding is off.

Edited July 2, 2008 by NormalMormon

[PapilioMemnon]

I do not believe in or subscribe to celestial marriage at all, however I did ask some similar questions about it a little earlier. I think you'll find the thread a good read: http://www.lds.net/forums/learn-about-mormon-church/12241-marriage.html

Regarding that polygamy was in the bible and discussed through it, I'd like to point out that just because something is in the bible, it does not necessarily mean the action or principle is condoned, even if it's about a bible "Superhero". For example, David having an affair with Bathsheba, and his multiple attempts at covering it up, and finally signing off on a death command for him. This was not an example of things as they should be, but an example of how things should not be. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, although I personally don't agree with it, but "It's in the bible" can't be used as a defense or argument unless the passages are more specific.

If the saviour were a woman, do you believe for a moment that the female-Jesus would have been paid any attention whatsoever by the people in the heavily male-dominated society of the day? Women were not people, women's testimonies were not testimonies at all, women could not hold any form of citizenship, and so on. A female Jesus would have been denied any and every credibility as a witness to even him (her) self.

In THAT case that you pointed out of David, yes, that was an affair, adultery, and was NOT commanded or condoned by the Lord at all! The Lord did not give BathSheba to him as a wife or concubine, David lusted after her, planned to get rid of her husband who was a just man, to have her as his wife... that's when David failed and brought upon himself the judgements of God... He acted on his own! That's when I said David made a poor choice.

David & Bathsheba's issue is not an example of polygamy being sanctioned/commanded by the Lord.

D&C 132 - Doctrine and Covenants 132

34 God acommanded Abraham, and Sarah gave bHagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, acommanded it.

36 Abraham was acommanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not bkill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for crighteousness.

37 Abraham received aconcubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and bJacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their cexaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

38 David also received amany wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

39 aDavid’s wives and concubines were bgiven unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the ckeys of this power; and in none of these things did he dsin against me save in the case of eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath ffallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I ggave them unto another, saith the Lord.

[Islander]

I actually talked to my bishop about this last night, and things ended up making sense. He told me that YES a woman can be sealed to more than one man - if the first one dies.

This still doesn't make up for the fact that men can be sealed to thirty wives at once.

I understand all the reasoning behind it....but get this....

Last night as soon as I got home, I told me husband about it. He was so infuriated that the Bishop told me that women can have more than one husband that he flipped out and called his dad to see if it was true. After some talking to, his dad convinced him....

Later, jokingly (and I might get kicked out for this....) my husband said something to the effect of...

"When I'm [lewd term for sex] 18 other queens..." Talking about the celestial kingdom....

We aren't ready to get sealed, the wedding is off.

That is the silliest thing I've ever heard!!! I am trying so hard not to laugh.

Not only that, why are we spending so much time discussing a principle that is not currently taught in the church, it has no baring in our current lives and that we do not fully comprehend? There is no such thing as celestial sex!!! That is just silly.

Can we just move on to a more spiritually uplifting, less contentious and more productive topic, now?

[NormalMormon]

That is the silliest thing I've ever heard!!! I am trying so hard not to laugh.

Not only that, why are we spending so much time discussing a principle that is not currently taught in the church, it has no baring in our current lives and that we do not fully comprehend? There is no such thing as celestial sex!!! That is just silly.

Can we just move on to a more spiritually uplifting, less contentious and more productive topic, now?

My bishop told me that there is celestial sex. In the highest level of of the celestial kingdom, there is procreation. How else can you procreate? I asked my Bishop this, and he said that there will be sex in the highest level of heaven.

[MrNirom]

My bishop told me that there is celestial sex. In the highest level of of the celestial kingdom, there is procreation. How else can you procreate? I asked my Bishop this, and he said that there will be sex in the highest level of heaven.

I have heard nothing on this topic. Though we can speculate.. and it seems plausible.. I personally will not be teaching this.

I won't have to worry about it until I get to the CK anyway.. and I am sure I will be enlightened at that time.

Until then.. I got my nose to grindstone and shoulder to the wheel. :)

[MarginOfError]

In a completely speculative and non-doctrinal fashion, I'm going to throw these ideas out to be kicked around:

In the scriptures, it seems that plural marriage has only ever been permitted by the Lord in the circumstances that a) He needed to do some nation building (children born into the covenant), or b) He needed to take care of people. Or sometimes both.

In the case of nation building, it doesn't make sense to have women have multiple husbands because each woman can only be pregnant by one man at a time (barring multiple eggs being released at the same time, but let's keep the argument simple, shall we?). But one man can impregnate multiple women. So for nation building, the many woman to one man idea makes sense.

In the case of taking care of people, I suppose it doesn't matter which way it goes. Anciently, and even in the 1800's it would have defaulted to the one man to many women because, due to cultural morals of the time, women wouldn't be able to produce enough income and resources to support multiple families. Men could...particularly in an agricultural society. Now that cultural norms have changed, if this were the state purpose for plural marriage, then I see no reason it couldn't follow a one woman to many man model.

At the same time, I think that one way or the other has to be defined. If a man can have several wives, and each of those wives can have several husbands, essentially what you've created is a system of sanctioned adultery. You just go marry the next person you want to sleep with and it's all legal. The only ways out of this is to either choose one gender to have multiple spouses, or eliminate the multiple spouse thing entirely.

One thing that I am sure about is that plural marriage, as practiced under God's law, was never about sexual pleasure. Men who were given additional wives were men who had the means to support multiple families, and the spiritual strength to preside over that many children. I suspect they were also men that understood that it was the women who truly made the arrangement work.

In the highest level of of the celestial kingdom, there is procreation. How else can you procreate?

According to prophecy, Mary was a virgin, who gave birth to a son. Ergo, sex is not requisite for procreation.

I asked my Bishop this, and he said that there will be sex in the highest level of heaven.

It wouldn't be heaven without sex, would it?

[PapilioMemnon]

AS far as I understand, there will be procreation in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, but how that will be done... we do not know, at least, not that I have found any prophet/apostle specifically mentioning how!

I would not be teaching this either.

I don't think it is the same way things are done here, just like our bodies will be "quickened," and not have blood like we do now...

It's not something essential I need to know now... so... to me it doesn't matter; what matters to me is to be vigilant now, and do what I'm supposed to do D&C 11:20

20 Behold, this is your work, to akeep my commandments, yea, with all your might, bmind and strength.

Edited July 2, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[bytor2112]

Mormal Mormon: Trying to glean insight and understanding of 19th century church history while peering through 21st century lenses is always going to provide us with a dim lit view of the past. My wife and I have talked a lot about these issues and always come back to the same conclusion. Namely, the Holy Spirit testifies of truth and Joseph was and is the Prophet of the Dispensation of the fullness of times. Brigham Young and many other leaders, Prophets and Apostles alike had multiple wives and had children by these multiple wives. I am absolutely fine with Joseph doing that as well, and even if I weren't, Heavenly Father apparently would have been. Sad really how the first thoughts most will have regarding this principle are to think about sexual gratification. We all know why they wanted more than one wife, don't we??? We are all taught and the scriptures are clear that the Lord delights in Chastity and virtue. I am certain that this church, the Lords church, could not have grew into this worldwide trumpeter of goodness and virtue if Joseph, and we have to include other Prophets as well, had fallen into some dark and immoral practices involving illicit affairs and multiple wives. One day,if we still number time by days or even number time at all, we will understand this principle and understand the Holy and Spiritual nature of it without injecting jealousies and thoughts of worldly passions. One day, when we are prepared........we will understand this and so much more.

We will be so very different in the future that petty jealousies regarding how many wives my husband is going to have and things like "Celestial sex" or why can't women have multiple husbands will not be an issue to us. If it is we probably won't be there to find out anyway. Heavenly Father is a "Man of Holiness",his purposes and his laws are righteous, spiritual and serve a greater purpose. We as mortals living in this fallen sphere tend to react with our passions and worry and fear over things we are not ready to understand.Remember we are on a journey towards perfection. Eternal Life is the type of life that God lives. Praying about and gaining a testimony of the Gospel as a whole and especially the "saving" doctrines of the Gospel is a great place to start. Until the Holy Spirit teaches you the Sacred and Eternal nature of marriage and this principle of plural marriage, there really isn't any thing positive that can come out of over thinking it. Just remember that if were are worthy and live up to our Temple covenants and endure to the end, we are going to eternally experience and learn and understand things, Holy and Sacred things, wonderful things that our minds in this state can't possible understand.

Edited July 2, 2008 by bytor2112

[Vanhin]

I actually talked to my bishop about this last night, and things ended up making sense. He told me that YES a woman can be sealed to more than one man - if the first one dies.

A living woman can only be sealed to one man, and must receive a cancellation of her sealing from the Frist Presidency to be sealed to another.

A deceased woman may be sealed to all the men that she was legally married to during her life, unless she had already been sealed to one of them during her life time. In that case, all the men must also be dead before they can also be sealed to her.

It will all be sorted out at some later time, and I believe in those cases the woman herself will have a big say in which one of them she will be with throughout the eternities. :)

In the case of living men, it is different. If a living man and woman are sealed to each other and the woman dies, the man may be sealed to another woman who is not already sealed to another man.

A deceased man can be sealed to each of the women he was legally married to in life, whether they are still alive or not, as long as they are not already sealed to another.

Regards,

Vanhin

[NormalMormon]

Okay, let me clarify. I understand the reasons for allowing polygamy. To raise seed, to save people, etc.. etc... I understand why it could be sanctioned by God. I DON'T understand why men and women in the exact same circumstance (widow) cannot have the same opportunity to be sealed to another spouse later. Man can. But women can't. Still makes no sense.

And to me, all this talk of "We don't know what will happen..." is horse puckey. Isn't that the entire point of religion? To figure out what will happen? Everything else seems to be figured out but this.

The fact that a) women can't have the priesthood and b) women can't be sealed to more than one man all comes back to the EXACT same argument. "We simply don't know." So far, dozens of men have given their two cents on why polygamy here on Earth is justified. I can see that sometimes it is. However, you don't think that ONE man or a few more found it COMPLETELY satisfying and appealing to know that he could have sex with any one of many women? Even Joseph Smith? He wasn't thinking about how many babies he was going to make while having sex. He was a prophet, but he was not perfect. No one is. He was a MAN. Just like every other man in a polygamist relationship.

It's not even about the men here, really. It's more about the women. We don't know how many wives of Joseph were completely hurt when he slept with another. Same all the other wives of one man. How can they not be hurt? I can see that a few women would do it out of the goodness of their hearts, in faith, knowing God would bless them, and because they were raised that way. But women are imperfect, and human too. And you cannot tell me that there was not, or will not be jealousy and pain. What man would EVER want to do that to a woman he loves?

My view is probably what is making God not allow it on the Earth today, since most people think the way I do. If, in my lifetime, God ever called for it again - I wouldn't do it. I don't think he would expect me to either. Even in Heaven, God wouldn't force me to share my husband with other women because for me, that's not Heaven.

Perhaps plural marriage is allowed in Heaven because, in addition to the many reasons we've already heard, there were and will be MORE people who get sealed to more than one person....(like in the event of death.)

Anyway....(inhale.)

[VisionOfLehi]

First you need to accept that men are holders of the Priesthood on this earth.

In this history of your posts, this seems to be the hurdle you still have not gotten over and won't accept.

The plural wives while alive is an extension of the Holy Priesthood.

In time, there will be Priestesses, but we don't have that law yet. We don't know how that will affect the plural spouse law.

Normal, there is no evidence that Joseph slept with anyone other than Emma. That's not a good example. That's not why he was sealed to so many women. There have been numerous topics on this board about that issue, you should take a look at one.

Also, no women in any of the early polygamist relationships were ever forced to do it.

And no, in Heaven, God will not make you be in a situation that you're uncomfortable with. His LAW will not change, but your nearness to His presence will. (This meaning for all circumstances.)

[bytor2112]

It really is simple........the formula for understanding. Pray and have faith and let the Holy Ghost teach you. But you have already made up your mind. If you have a testimony of the Gospel then these things really wouldn't concern you. Perhaps that is where you should start.... find out if the church is true. Was the Gospel restored through Joseph Smith? Did he translate the Book of Mormon by the power of God?

Ranting about whether or not men found it satisfying to have sex with there wives is irrelevant. Sex between man and wife is meant to be enjoyable and is not sinful. Wondering why women can't hold the Priesthood is kind of like wondering why men can't have babies.

[VisionOfLehi]

Please not that it's not saying women don't have the Priesthood because they can have babies.

It's merely a parallel.

[NormalMormon]

It really is simple........the formula for understanding. Pray and have faith and let the Holy Ghost teach you. But you have already made up your mind. If you have a testimony of the Gospel then these things really wouldn't concern you. Perhaps that is where you should start.... find out if the church is true. Was the Gospel restored through Joseph Smith? Did he translate the Book of Mormon by the power of God?

Ranting about whether or not men found it satisfying to have sex with there wives is irrelevant. Sex between man and wife is meant to be enjoyable and is not sinful. Wondering why women can't hold the Priesthood is kind of like wondering why men can't have babies.

Oh let's not start this. The priesthood is a Man/God given right. Having babies is a biological right. Nothing more nothing less. So there's no comparison.

[NormalMormon]

It's funny that no matter what topic I start, the only thing it comes back to is - "Pray, Have faith, etc..."

You don't think I do that? I haven't made up my mind yet, like you suggest. I am constantly searching for answers, which is why I am here. But it seems no one can fess up to the truth, or at least recognize that what I say has some value.

You know good and well that the fact that women can't have the Priesthood makes NO sense.

You also know that not allowing both men and women to be able to be sealed to more than one person makes no sense.

Men and women are equal but different, and everything a man is offered by the hand of God or the prophet or whatever, should also be offered to a woman. And vice versa. Not biological traits. That's completely different.

Once again....no one can answer me. I just got my new temple reccommend yesterday, and asked the Bishop all these things. He seemed to understand me.

Ultimatley, the only answer is "We don't know."

[VisionOfLehi]

Biological traits are NOT completely different.

They're not exactly the same, but they aren't different.

Biological traits are ALSO offered by God. HE created YOU, HE gave you those traits.

We believe that there's spiritual, not just physical, differences between men and women!

"And the spirit and the body are the soul of man."

And people HAVE given you answers. Because you don't accept them doesn't make that fact untrue.

[NormalMormon]

Biological traits are NOT completely different.

They're not exactly the same, but they aren't different.

Biological traits are ALSO offered by God. HE created YOU, HE gave you those traits.

We believe that there's spiritual, not just physical, differences between men and women!

"And the spirit and the body are the soul of man."

And people HAVE given you answers. Because you don't accept them doesn't make that fact untrue.

This is where religion and science conflict.

Blacks have black skin because God made them so. Women have breasts. Men have penises. Mexicans have dark skin. Chinese have light. Blonde, brunette, male female....etc....those are all biological. You know that.

Holding the Priesthood doesn't happen because you have the penis. It happens because man makes it so. God didn't love black people any less before they could hold the Priesthood. It was MAN that didn't love black people. Same thing with women. Women can't hold the Prieshood because of man. Not God. You can say it's the Prophet who tells us this is how it should be, but that's also what the prophet said before black people were allowed the Priesthood.

[Vanhin]

...It happens because man makes it so. God didn't love black people any less before they could hold the Priesthood. It was MAN that didn't love black people. Same thing with women. Women can't hold the Prieshood because of man. Not God. You can say it's the Prophet who tells us this is how it should be, but that's also what the prophet said before black people were allowed the Priesthood.

Were you aware that the priesthood was not withheld from all black people or people of color, only those of African decent?

The following three men, for example, could have held the priesthood during the ban as long as they were worthy of it.

If it was about racism, then why didn't the Church withold the priesthood from other blacks and people of color?

I don't know why you keep bringing up the priesthood ban in conjunction with this topic. It really has nothing to do with women and the priesthood.

Regards,

Vanhin

[VisionOfLehi]

Holding the Priesthood doesn't happen because you have the penis. It happens because man makes it so.

WRONG

It's because GOD makes it so. He has not given the Priesthood to be held by women.

You're accusing the Church of keeping something from you, and I find it highly offensive.

You need to go think about whether or not you believe in revelation from the Lord, because it's VITAL and CENTRAL to our Church, and you seem to have a huge doubt about it. I think before you start accusing us of being unfair, or somehow sexist, that you need to read up on the doctrine of revelation and personal revelation, and read some testimonies of the same.

[Islander]

This is where religion and science conflict.

Blacks have black skin because God made them so. Women have breasts. Men have penises. Mexicans have dark skin. Chinese have light. Blonde, brunette, male female....etc....those are all biological. You know that.

Holding the Priesthood doesn't happen because you have the penis. It happens because man makes it so. God didn't love black people any less before they could hold the Priesthood. It was MAN that didn't love black people. Same thing with women. Women can't hold the Prieshood because of man. Not God. You can say it's the Prophet who tells us this is how it should be, but that's also what the prophet said before black people were allowed the Priesthood.

You should check your sources. I am a convert to the church, I happen to be black and I have researched the issue in significant detail. Vaghn is right. The priesthood was withheld to men of African descent for very specific reasons. You should study the issue if you are interested.

In the other hand, the issue before us is quite simple; --either Joseph saw the God of the universe and His Son or not. Did he received revelation or not as a prophet? Was the priesthood restored thru him or not? Until and unless you find answers to these questions you are putting forth just your opinion. When it comes to the things of God our opinion is not worth much and we run the risk of finding ourself on the wrong side of the truth. I think you must consider these issues prayerfully and sincerely. I suggest you seek an interview with your bishop and raise all the questions you have and avoid listening to the echo inside your head. We usually have a very difficult time discerning what is fact and what is opinion when we do not understand the doctrine of the kingdom. Confusion and doubt often constitute a sure way to open the door to the enemy.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Islander

[bytor2112]

Normal Mormon.....did I read that correctly, you just RENEWED your Temple reccomend and you feel this kind of animosity toward the church? Do you believe the Priesthood is real? If you are still trying to figure out if the Church is true, how did you get a Temple reccomend?