Hahahaha (call To The First Presidency)

[StrawberryFields]

Wait. Are we off topic?

What was the topic?

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Aug 10 2005, 08:49 PM

Wait. Are we off topic?

What was the topic?

Off topic? Welllllll YEAH! Somehow, we are remembering our good friend Bat who started this thread.... and the fun we used to have

Hey Jen! good to see you again girl :)

[Guest K Anderson]

I haven't read all the posts. Apparently this discussion is quite old, so whatever I'm about to say may or may not be relevant.

Bat, are you LDS? You mention having been taught the doctrines of the restored gospel. Why do you doubt them?

But what I want to say here is that the answer to your question is simple -- IF YOU CAN ACCEPT IT. Do you accept that God's ways are higher than your ways? Do you accept that you don't know everything? CAN you accept God's principles and not fight against them (if that is indeed what you have done, and what I mean is "apostatize").

As I said, the answer to your question is simple and is available in the holy scriptures, or on the internet if you you have mis splaced yours:

Moses 7: 22

22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

Did the LDS church every teach that the descendants of Cain were black?

YES.

Can you handle that?

Obviously black people came from somewhere, right?

This verse shows us. And after the flood they were descended through Ham, the son of Noah and his black wife Egyptus.

(side track) Today, even though the blessings of heaven have been bestowed upon the negro (and they must work hard and strive to baptize all their ancestors) it is very clear from the teachings of the brethren that the seed of Cain (blacks) and the seed of Israel (whites -- or the seed of Ephraim) should not be mixed.

Joseph Smith taught that the tribe of Ephraim has the pure blood of Abraham, and that the negro and the non-Israelite must be PURIFIED through trials ans works, and then THE HOLY GHOST WILL MAKE THEIR BLOOD PURE.

The question is, CAN YOU HANDLE GOD'S WAYS, BAT?

[Jenifer]

Originally posted by K Anderson@Aug 14 2005, 01:51 AM

I haven't read all the posts. Apparently this discussion is quite old, so whatever I'm about to say may or may not be relevant.

Bat, are you LDS? You mention having been taught the doctrines of the restored gospel. Why do you doubt them?

But what I want to say here is that the answer to your question is simple -- IF YOU CAN ACCEPT IT. Do you accept that God's ways are higher than your ways? Do you accept that you don't know everything? CAN you accept God's principles and not fight against them (if that is indeed what you have done, and what I mean is "apostatize").

As I said, the answer to your question is simple and is available in the holy scriptures, or on the internet if you you have mis splaced yours:

Moses 7: 22

22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

Did the LDS church every teach that the descendants of Cain were black?

YES.

Can you handle that?

Obviously black people came from somewhere, right?

This verse shows us. And after the flood they were descended through Ham, the son of Noah and his black wife Egyptus.

(side track) Today, even though the blessings of heaven have been bestowed upon the negro (and they must work hard and strive to baptize all their ancestors) it is very clear from the teachings of the brethren that the seed of Cain (blacks) and the seed of Israel (whites -- or the seed of Ephraim) should not be mixed.

Joseph Smith taught that the tribe of Ephraim has the pure blood of Abraham, and that the negro and the non-Israelite must be PURIFIED through trials ans works, and then THE HOLY GHOST WILL MAKE THEIR BLOOD PURE.

The question is, CAN YOU HANDLE GOD'S WAYS, BAT?

Bat wants to know why it took well over a year for an LDS member to even admit that there was such a teaching in Mormonism known as "The curse of Cain". He thinks some members (he calls them internet mormons) who are aware of the doctrine are ashamed of it and that is why they won't admit to it out in the open where potential converts might be repulsed by the teaching.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 31 2004, 06:23 AM

Hi Bat,

Ask for your answer in writting. And while your at it ask why they can have caffine now, my son asked a missionary last nigt about caffine and they told him they can drink it now as long as they don't get addicted. I might have to sue the church for mental issues from the beating I use to take as a kid from my non-LDS buddys for dogging me for always drinking rootbeer and not being able to drink a coke when we went to the market after school, thank God it wasn't against the word of wisdom  to buy baseball cards.

Mark

John 1:12

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Yeah, I agree. ALL SORTS of activities are harmless so long as you don't become an addict.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by annelizayoung+Jul 31 2004, 08:11 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jenda@Jul 31 2004, 08:34 PM

As a restorationist (and an RLDS), to be honest, I don't believe that we have ever assigned remnants of a curse to any ethnic group.  We do not have the same beliefs in the pre-life that the LDS do.  I believe that those beliefs come from the PoGP (which we have never viewed as scripture.)

Jenda,

Is 2 Nephi 5:21 a part of the RLDS version of the Book of Mormon? If so, how do you deal with that? I had to hunt a bit to find that verse that I had remembered seeing.

Hope my question doesn't offend. And I realize it is a question especially for the LDS since their version does include it.

Speaking of pre-life. That's another topic I'd like to explore, but will put it on the back burner for a while.

Peace,

AEY

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Jenda, I give you a 9.7 for that masterful display of mental gymnastics. Bravo!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by bizabra+Sep 9 2005, 09:38 PM-->

Originally posted by annelizayoung@Jul 31 2004, 08:11 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jenda@Jul 31 2004, 08:34 PM

As a restorationist (and an RLDS), to be honest, I don't believe that we have ever assigned remnants of a curse to any ethnic group.  We do not have the same beliefs in the pre-life that the LDS do.  I believe that those beliefs come from the PoGP (which we have never viewed as scripture.)

Jenda,

Is 2 Nephi 5:21 a part of the RLDS version of the Book of Mormon? If so, how do you deal with that? I had to hunt a bit to find that verse that I had remembered seeing.

Hope my question doesn't offend. And I realize it is a question especially for the LDS since their version does include it.

Speaking of pre-life. That's another topic I'd like to explore, but will put it on the back burner for a while.

Peace,

AEY

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Jenda, I give you a 9.7 for that masterful display of mental gymnastics. Bravo!

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Biz have you answered the question Heather gave today about nons on the lds board?

[Guest gramps25]

Originally posted by bat@Jul 30 2004, 12:24 AM

Upon stumbiling across this apologetic website tonight, I was prompted to call the First Presidency and ask this question:

"Did the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints EVER teach that black people were cursed and the descendants of Cain?"

The person who answered the phone said: "Ummmmmmmmmm, I don't think so."

To which I replied "You don't think so?"

Her response was:  "Actually, we're not allowed to give out that information, in case we give out false information."

My next question was "Well is there anyone there that would know?"

"Yes, you can call back tomorrow and ask for the historical department." she said.

I asked "At this same number?"

She told me "yes".

I was taught this in church.  I'm shocked that I have to check with the historical department to see whether or not what I was taught in the LDS church was ever taught by the LDS church.

Does the concern over political correctness of the church vs. teachings of the prophets and church leaders bother anybody else?  I mean, not that I really care since I'm not a believing mormon anymore, but if I were, this would probably seriously bother me.

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