Guest Starsky Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Feb 1 2004, 12:19 PM Wow Peace---The heart has a brain? Is there a medical specialty that specializes in this particular organ? What is it called, Cardiac Neurology? If I remember from Anatomy studies, the only nerve tissue in the heart functions to make a pump work. Maybe your pump isn't getting enough blood to your brain anymore.Actually, your mistaken idea the the heart has anything to do with thinking or emotion is a throw back to more primitive times when people actually thought that the heart was an organ of thinking. The brain was thought to function as a radiator to cool the blood. Science has found differently since then. But, since science seems to mean nothing to you, I guess you will just have to remain stuck in the 1600's. You are so retro...and left out in the dark. YOu think if you don't know...nobody can know it. Peace--yeah, me and the rest of the scientific community. Show me an X-ray of your Heart-Brain. Oh that's right, it has to be revealed by God. Silly me. LOL...you are so ignorant of the most simplest kind of scientific study.The heart brain puts out electrical impulses and shows intelligence. Maybe you would be smarter if you listened to it....LOLThis is actually prinited in a scientific study....you could get a reference to it through Prevention magazine who not only have their own scientists, but keep updated on all other scientific studies that have to do with the body and health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Feb 1 2004, 12:22 PM Wow Peace---The heart has a brain? Is there a medical specialty that specializes in this particular organ? What is it called, Cardiac Neurology? If I remember from Anatomy studies, the only nerve tissue in the heart functions to make a pump work. Maybe your pump isn't getting enough blood to your brain anymore.Actually, your mistaken idea the the heart has anything to do with thinking or emotion is a throw back to more primitive times when people actually thought that the heart was an organ of thinking. The brain was thought to function as a radiator to cool the blood. Science has found differently since then. But, since science seems to mean nothing to you, I guess you will just have to remain stuck in the 1600's. You are so retro...and left out in the dark. YOu think if you don't know...nobody can know it. Peace--yeah, me and the rest of the scientific community. Show me an X-ray of your Heart-Brain. Oh that's right, it has to be revealed by God. Silly me. LOL...you are so ignorant of the most simplest kind of scientific study.The heart brain puts out electrical impulses and shows intelligence. Maybe you would be smarter if you listened to it....LOLThis is actually prinited in a scientific study....you could get a reference to it through Prevention magazine who not only have their own scientists, but keep updated on all other scientific studies that have to do with the body and health. I believe the whole discussion was supposed to center around your idea of what is the "arm of flesh".So, lets say, just for argument, that your "heart-brain" exists. Exactly what is it made out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 If you want to know all of these things...do some research for heaven sakes... Your problem is that you spend all of your time trying to fight truth... You need to get an education man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Feb 1 2004, 12:37 PM Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? Scientific discovery is daily...College is ancient history by the time you get out of it...Actually college is little good for anything but a piece of paper saying you can mess up the world with all those college learned things.My husband was a do it kind of guy. When he went to college to get the paper to say he knew what he was doing...he came accross more stupidity than he had every come accross among the uneducated.Like for instance...it was being taught that pot metal couldn't be welded. Well my husband demonstrated that it could to this professor and the prof didn't know what to say about the book stating it couldn't....That is just the tip of an enormous iceburg of stupid in college grads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 So, ignorance is a virture, education is a vice. Quite a philosophy. Not even your own beloved church leaders believe this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Feb 1 2004, 12:45 PM So, ignorance is a virture, education is a vice. Quite a philosophy.Not even your own beloved church leaders believe this one. When you stop learning ...educational papers do you no good....even the church leaders will back me up on this one.Ignorance is all you have....and I would never consider it a virtue....If you are referring to unpapered people.....as ignorant...you have again demonstrated your own ignornace...inspite of your papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Feb 1 2004, 01:37 PM Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? I can't stand lawyers! Bunch of deliberate thieves! This explains a lot about you. No wonder you like to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Behunin+Feb 2 2004, 06:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Feb 2 2004, 06:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Feb 1 2004, 01:37 PM Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? I can't stand lawyers! Bunch of deliberate thieves! This explains a lot about you. No wonder you like to argue. I can't stand religious authorities! Bunch of deliberate liars! This comment explains a lot about you. No wonder, they want you to remain ignorant.Criminy woman! How do you like broad sweeping generalizations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 31 2004, 10:09 PM Ray,YOu said" "“Cursed is he who puts his trust in the arm of flesh” is the thought that came to my mind when thinking on how to respond to this post."What exactly is this "arm of the flesh" you are talking about? I assume it is other people. If so, how did YOU find out about the BoM? Was not JS "people"? Even if you respond "NO, I'm trusting my own FEELINGS". I have news for you; you are still trusting "flesh"---it's the flesh that your own brain is made out of. You are still trusting that your own brain is telling you something about something REAL , and not actually deceiving you by coloring your rational mind with emotion.It's ALL flesh; like it or not. Originally posted by Cal@ Jan 31 2004, 10:09 PMWhat exactly is this "arm of the flesh" you are talking about? I assume it is other people. If so, how did YOU find out about the BoM? Was not JS "people"? Even if you respond "NO, I'm trusting my own FEELINGS".Good question, and good guess. Trusting in the “arm of flesh” is a scriptural reference referring to putting trust in what other people tell you. And yes, while I did hear about the Book of Mormon from some other people, I didn’t know that what they told me was true until I gained an assurance from God to confirm to me that what they told me was true. I have news for you; you are still trusting "flesh"---it's the flesh that your own brain is made out of. You are still trusting that your own brain is telling you something about something REAL, and not actually deceiving you by coloring your rational mind with emotion.You seem to have forgotten the idea that trusting “the arm of flesh” is to put trust in other people, but I suppose it also applies to putting trust in what your own brain is telling you. If you believe something simply because it makes sense or sounds logically rational to your brain, how would you know that what you are thinking is really true? Perhaps when the truth is conveyed to your very soul? Your soul involves your body and spirit, and not simply your body or brain. But how do you know when it is your brain doing the thinking, and when it is your spirit? Can you answer that question? How do you know that it isn’t merely your brain telling you that your wife loves you? Is it merely your own thinking, or do you really truly know it? Who would you rather trust, your wife, who may be trying to deceive you for some reason, or your own knowledge of the truth that has been conveyed to your spirit through a testimony from the Holy Ghost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by bizabra@Feb 1 2004, 11:43 AM RAY: "I thank God that I do not live in a world where people kill other people for their beliefs....."BIZ: Um, what world do YOU live on, Ray? here on Planet Earth, where I live, people often kill others for their beliefs. What Planet do you inhabit, pray tell? Okay, let me rephrase. While we do live in a world where individual people sometimes kill other people for their beliefs, those actions are no longer condoned by government or civic leaders, at least not in America where I live or anywhere else that I am aware of. As far as I know, killing someone for their religous beliefs is now against the law, and government and civic leaders will now prosecute people for doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srm Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003+Jan 29 2004, 11:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Jan 29 2004, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -srm@Jan 29 2004, 10:44 AM <!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Jan 28 2004, 05:49 PM I think Pres. Faust is obfuscating the FACT that there are numerous plagiarisms of the OT and NT in the BoM, and he spins such into a faith promoting blurb that most members won't bother thinking about. Perhaps this was the Duck's gentle way of broaching the subject? How many are there in 'numerous plagiarisms'? Could you list them? Better yet, because they're so numerous, I'lll just provide you with a link. If you bother to actually skim over the pages that are linked it'll soon dawn on you the magnitude of JS's plagiarism. If you want to know how a "simple farm boy" could possbily write the BoM, it's not too hard to imagine that with Spaulding's basis for a story, JS's plagiarism of the Bible, and repition..he could've wrote it.http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bom/intro.shtmlDon't forget that huge portions of Isaiah were included under the guise of the Brass Plates. I tend to agree with jenda. Using similar words to describe simlar situations is natural. In fact, as a person translates a documant they will invariable use words and phrases familiar to them as the encounter like concepts. While I understand your point and can see why you feel this way, I hope that you can understand my point. BTW, the other parts aside, The Isaiah passages could not be considered plagiarism by any definistion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by bizabra+Feb 2 2004, 10:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Feb 2 2004, 10:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Behunin@Feb 2 2004, 06:42 AM <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Feb 1 2004, 01:37 PM Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? I can't stand lawyers! Bunch of deliberate thieves! This explains a lot about you. No wonder you like to argue. I can't stand religious authorities! Bunch of deliberate liars! This comment explains a lot about you. No wonder, they want you to remain ignorant.Criminy woman! How do you like broad sweeping generalizations? I like them fine when they are true. I know from experience that law schools teach how to think like lawyers, and it has nothing to do with honesty.I have found so called religious authorities to also be liars, just like you have. If you have remained ignorant, it is your fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Behunin+Feb 2 2004, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Feb 2 2004, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -bizabra@Feb 2 2004, 10:15 AM Originally posted by -Behunin@Feb 2 2004, 06:42 AM <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Feb 1 2004, 01:37 PM Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? I can't stand lawyers! Bunch of deliberate thieves! This explains a lot about you. No wonder you like to argue. I can't stand religious authorities! Bunch of deliberate liars! This comment explains a lot about you. No wonder, they want you to remain ignorant.Criminy woman! How do you like broad sweeping generalizations? I like them fine when they are true. I know from experience that law schools teach how to think like lawyers, and it has nothing to do with honesty.I have found so called religious authorities to also be liars, just like you have. If you have remained ignorant, it is your fault. Actually when it comes to lawyers....we all know they are criminal minded.They do things 'legally' that the criminals wouldn't even dare try. It is the the lawyers of this country which has changed us from 'accountable' people to 'liable' people.One can't even have an accident or make a mistake without ending up with one of these blood suckers down your throat.It is too bad. The world is just being flushed royal...all so they can make some big cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Feb 2 2004, 03:38 PM Actually when it comes to lawyers....we all know they are criminal minded.They do things 'legally' that the criminals wouldn't even dare try. It is the the lawyers of this country which has changed us from 'accountable' people to 'liable' people.One can't even have an accident or make a mistake without ending up with one of these blood suckers down your throat.It is too bad. The world is just being flushed royal...all so they can make some big cash. I could not have said this any better. Money is the draw. Anyone can be a "lawyer". No special skill involved, unlike the talent and intelligence necessary to have a MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Well you two just lost a lot of credibility IMHO. You are lumping Cal and Proud Duck in with the segment of scumbag lawyers who give lawyers a bad name. Shame on you! Damn Narrow minded Mormons! (oops, I guess I'm a Mormon too...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 curvy, Thank you for the voice of support. There are ethical as well as unethical lawyers, just like there are incompetent doctors, teachers....you name the profession. Broad generalizations really say nothing. That it takes no skill to be a competent lawyer is the laugh of the century. It takes years of experience and study to even come close to calling yourself a skillful attorney. What you learn in law school only scratches the surface of effective advocacy. It is easy for people to put down lawyers, until they NEED one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by Peace+Feb 2 2004, 02:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Feb 2 2004, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Behunin@Feb 2 2004, 02:09 PM Originally posted by -bizabra@Feb 2 2004, 10:15 AM Originally posted by -Behunin@Feb 2 2004, 06:42 AM <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Feb 1 2004, 01:37 PM Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick? I can't stand lawyers! Bunch of deliberate thieves! This explains a lot about you. No wonder you like to argue. I can't stand religious authorities! Bunch of deliberate liars! This comment explains a lot about you. No wonder, they want you to remain ignorant.Criminy woman! How do you like broad sweeping generalizations? I like them fine when they are true. I know from experience that law schools teach how to think like lawyers, and it has nothing to do with honesty.I have found so called religious authorities to also be liars, just like you have. If you have remained ignorant, it is your fault. Actually when it comes to lawyers....we all know they are criminal minded.They do things 'legally' that the criminals wouldn't even dare try. It is the the lawyers of this country which has changed us from 'accountable' people to 'liable' people.One can't even have an accident or make a mistake without ending up with one of these blood suckers down your throat.It is too bad. The world is just being flushed royal...all so they can make some big cash. Let's set up a scenario, Peace. You are crossing the streeet at a marked crosswalk, with the WALK signal in your favor. Along comes a drunk driver, doesn't notice you in the cross walk, and makes an instant cripple out of you.His insurance company will only pay the cost of your medical bills, even though the guy is worth millions due to his business success. Who you gonna call, Ghostbusters? Your Bishop? Try a good lawyer. Pray all you want, but a lawyer is what you will need to get all those long term care bills paid. And what about compensation for your loss of quality of life. Isn't that worth something? Try going to court yourself, without a lawyer and see how good you are at making your case? Most people can't reason and persuade themselves out of a paper bag. You will get nothing, because you (and most people) wouldn't know how to present a coherent and logical case that cites the appropriate legal precedents and statutes.That's what lawyers are for---to get for you what you deserve under the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Cal -- Although I don't like being lumped together with the stereotyped amoral devil's advocate any more than the next avocado, I do have to say that there are plenty of people in this profession who aren't exactly Atticus Finch. The law can be used as a weapon, and not necessarily for justice. Aristotle wrote (or at least "Legally Blonde" said so) that the law is reason free from passion. I think that's a nice ideal, but litigators routinely play to jurors' emotions, or rely on junk science, knowing that the average retired postal worker who makes up the jury pool will glaze over after five minutes of scientific testimony.Try going to court yourself, without a lawyer and see how good you are at making your case? Most people can't reason and persuade themselves out of a paper bag. You will get nothing, because you (and most people) wouldn't know how to present a coherent and logical case that cites the appropriate legal precedents and statutes.Man, do I agree. Watching a pro per defendant getting his hapless backside handed to him is one of the most vicariously painful experiences possible.That's what lawyers are for---to get for you what you deserve under the law.I think it was Dr. Johnson who wrote that if we all got what we deserved, most of us would be hanged. Something in our system does encourage plaintiffs (and require lawyers, as a matter of professional ethics) to seek everything the law allows, rather than being content with that which is just. That, I think, plays into some of the worst aspects of our culture -- a kind of win-at-every-cost Vince Lombardism.Lawyers aren't the problem. They share human nature with everyone else, with all the idealism, greed, honor, and deceit that entails. The problem is a legal system whose structures sometimes reward the worse aspects of human nature rather than the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Feb 2 2004, 08:34 PM Lawyers aren't the problem. They share human nature with everyone else, with all the idealism, greed, honor, and deceit that entails. The problem is a legal system whose structures sometimes reward the worse aspects of human nature rather than the better. Ummm,Aren't lawyers the largest and most powerful part of the legals system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Do lawyers make the laws? The lawyers who (I think) are the most unethical are the one's who file these frivolous class action lawsuits. The judges who allow them are just as bad. I recently received a letter from a California group who had filed a class action suit against a medical company. They were able to access my personal, confidential medical records to carry out this absolutely ridiculous lawsuit so that the lawyers could take home millions and each plaintiff get about $200.00. I think it's absolutely immoral and I'm outraged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by curvette@Feb 2 2004, 05:14 PM Well you two just lost a lot of credibility IMHO. You are lumping Cal and Proud Duck in with the segment of scumbag lawyers who give lawyers a bad name. Shame on you! Damn Narrow minded Mormons! (oops, I guess I'm a Mormon too...) LOL....credibility....well that seems to be the first thing I always lose when I don't agree with someone...So...credibility or no....my experience with lawyers...(which has been extensive, ....)tells me there aren't any good ones anywhere....Starting with the ones (who BTW was a bishop and his counselor) robbed my uncle and his heirs of thousands of dollars....and then my husband's parents' bishop, who as their lawyer, did the same thing to his mother when his father died....Then there are the kind that work for the city to 'defend' the innocent...what a joke...The guy told me that the city paid him...therefore his loyalties were with them....geeeze! (my dog chased a kid down the street and after putting the dog down with the agreement that they wouldn't pursuit us with fines and court dates and law suits...had me arrested unlawfully for not showing up to a court I was never to attend in the first place....and no matter what I said or did, the city attorneys wouldn't even tell me why I was being arrested until I got a city counselman to find out for me....which took 6 months....geeeze....I think ALL lawyers are garbage....plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I think all theists are garbage, plain and simple. Why, just lookee here at all the evil things done in the name of god over the entire history of man. All the purges and cleansings and pogroms and burnings and hangings and such. And the GUILT that theists heap upon the head of anyone who dares to disobey! tsk tsk Sheesh. The world would be a better place if it weren't for all those horrid awful people who believe in god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by bizabra@Feb 2 2004, 11:34 PM I think all theists are garbage, plain and simple. Why, just lookee here at all the evil things done in the name of god over the entire history of man. All the purges and cleansings and pogroms and burnings and hangings and such. And the GUILT that theists heap upon the head of anyone who dares to disobey! tsk tskSheesh. The world would be a better place if it weren't for all those horrid awful people who believe in god. Given the experience you have had with "thesits", I understand why you who feel this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by Snow+Feb 2 2004, 09:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Feb 2 2004, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Feb 2 2004, 08:34 PM Lawyers aren't the problem. They share human nature with everyone else, with all the idealism, greed, honor, and deceit that entails. The problem is a legal system whose structures sometimes reward the worse aspects of human nature rather than the better. Ummm,Aren't lawyers the largest and most powerful part of the legals system? Yes they are! You can't be a "judge" without belonging to the "bar".There would be no need for so called "lawyers" if we lived in a world where everything was voluntary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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