Spying on our kids

[Misshalfway]

This is a tremendous thread!

As our world gets more complicated and as Satan's tactics infiltrate every corner, I pray that we as parents are blessed with added Spirit and wisdom and street smarts and communication skills so that we can raise our children into responsible and expressive adults and keep them safe at the same time.

[VisionOfLehi]

Rico, I'm pretty sure we're agreeing... Because I'm not at all talking against someone who established the rules beforehand, laid it out for their children. That's fine by me. I'm am A-OK with the strict lay-down-the-law kind of boundaries you're talking about.

Parent's SHOULD be "nosy." They should be in their kid's lives. But they need to be clear about the extent of that.

If it's something like "Once a week when you're not home I'm going to go through your room." or "Every month I'm going to read your text messages." The child should be informed. If you have NOT been doing those things, then you have by omission already established a boundary.

Teenagers, for one, are pretty smart. You can talk to them less like a child, and more like an adult. And informing them of what you're doing, such as changing the rules and boundaries, is a sign of respect. And while some parenting guides will tell you that you aren't supposed to be your child's friend, but their parent, you still need to have a relationship of mutual respect.

"Peppered" as my opinion may be, it's the same one I had before and after the incident. It's why it bugged me so much when they randomly decided to do it.

[Misshalfway]

Rico, I'm pretty sure we're agreeing... Because I'm not at all talking against someone who established the rules beforehand, laid it out for their children. That's fine by me. I'm am A-OK with the strict lay-down-the-law kind of boundaries you're talking about.

Parent's SHOULD be "nosy." They should be in their kid's lives. But they need to be clear about the extent of that.

If it's something like "Once a week when you're not home I'm going to go through your room." or "Every month I'm going to read your text messages." The child should be informed. If you have NOT been doing those things, then you have by omission already established a boundary.

Teenagers, for one, are pretty smart. You can talk to them less like a child, and more like an adult. And informing them of what you're doing, such as changing the rules and boundaries, is a sign of respect. And while some parenting guides will tell you that you aren't supposed to be your child's friend, but their parent, you still need to have a relationship of mutual respect.

"Peppered" as my opinion may be, it's the same one I had before and after the incident. It's why it bugged me so much when they randomly decided to do it.

I don't know. I think first of all you better know your kid and you better have a firm grip on reality and not be in any denial about the trouble your child may face or choose. The nicest girls get pregnant and the best of boys get trapped into porn. Different levels of involvement may be needed based upon a variety of different dynamics and personalities.

And you know.....sometimes parents don't always know the boundaries to set or how far to set them. Half the time we are just doing the best we can. The fact is that parents make mistakes and have to course correct all the time and you know, they don't always have to tell their children everything or justify or explain themselves. Sometimes, what they say just goes!

I don't see a problem with doing random secret searches. I have learned some things about my child's behavior that I couldn't have known any other way....information I am glad to have found. And as you say....kids are pretty smart. Some are smarter with this technology than their parents and are pretty good at pulling a snow job every now and then. I think parents do what they have to do even if it violates the privacy of their kids. I think it can all be mediated with a lot of communication and lots of listening on both sides. Sadly, I don't think that happens as much as it should on either side of the equation.

[VisionOfLehi]

I guess each child is different.

With me "what the say just goes" never, ever flew.

Parents and teachers. If they couldn't give me a good reason, then I wouldn't go for it.

I never had to worry about the text thing, or curfew, because I never went out of the house, essentially, or socialized. But if my home became a place filled with unjustified "rules" then you can bet your butt I would've found a different place to spend most of my time, even if it was just walking around the city.

[checkerboy]

I think Heavenly Father said it best. Teach a child by the time they are 8 and if you fail to do that then the sin be on your heads.

The thing that bothers me with this invasion of privacy parenting is that we have become a society that doesn't allow for personal responsibility. We don't let kids fail anymore. Once my boys are over the age of 8 then the sin is on their heads. I will still be there to guide them but I will also let the effects of their choices teach them, most of the time this will be drasticly more dynamic on them then my guidence will.

As a society we need to learn to embrace failure because if kids don't ever fail they will not have the motivation to succeed.

[Misshalfway]

You sound a lot like "Love and Logic" parenting. This philosophy says that it is good to allow children to fall.......when the consequences are relatively low intensity. I don't want to insolate my children. I do absolutely want them to learn about personal responsiblity and to learn to choose. But.....I there are some things I hope they never have to experience and if my vigilance can prevent some of those things or should prevent those things then I will do them.

I really like the idea of informing my children what I will do and won't do. I agree that kids deserve respect and privacy to a degree. And if they prove worthy....I see no problem with enlarging their scope of freedom.

[littlemisschatterbox]

I tell my mom everything, not because I feel obligated to or because I'm scared she will sneak into my private life to find out information if I don't. I like to tell her things because I can trust her. And she shouldn't feel like she has to pry information out of me. If I found out that she was reading my texts or screening my phone calls, I would feel so betrayed and not trusted. That would hurt my feelings more than anything. I think that may be one of the worst things you can do to your child because they won't want to tell you anything after that. It's a violation of their privacy, if you think so or not. They do. If you want them to tell you things, then you need to establish that relationship

[rameumptom]

I'm a big believer in Love and Logic series. However, the wise parent determines what things they are ready for. The reality is, most teens think they are mature enough for many things, of which they are not.

We are all experts at self-deception, and teens often think they are bullet proof. But the statistics don't agree. More teens in crashes than any other group. More teens are raped than older women per capita. More teens are trapped into issues of using drugs, gangs, sex, etc., than any other group. And the sad thing is that the portion of the brain that makes decisions does not fully mature until a person is about 24 years of age!

Let them fail at things that don't risk pregnancy, AIDS, STDs, rape, stalking, death, etc. Those are not learning experiences. Those are simple tragedies.

[StrawberryFields]

I think it's important to be an involved parent, know your children and let them know they can come to you now matter what the subject is. When you hear something that might shock you keep a level head and ask them how they feel about it. Do more listening and less fault-finding. If you suspect a problem go to them and ask. If you feel that there is something more you need to know go to the measures you need. I have always believed that I could trust my kids until I had a reason not to trust them, gaining trust back was not as easy for me as their father. Parenting is not easy and all three of my children have different needs but I got to where I could read them. Allowing them to make some of their own mistakes was about the hardest thing I ever did. I figured that if they made smaller mistakes and learned from them while still under my care they were not mistakes at all only learning experiences.

[RainofGold]

The thing that bothers me with this invasion of privacy parenting is that we have become a society that doesn't allow for personal responsibility. We don't let kids fail anymore. Once my boys are over the age of 8 then the sin is on their heads. I will still be there to guide them but I will also let the effects of their choices teach them, most of the time this will be drastically more dynamic on them then my guidence will.

As a society we need to learn to embrace failure because if kids don't ever fail they will not have the motivation to succeed.

I think you still don't know that teenagers are in some ways still kids, and their brain is not totally developed. If you are going to let them learn by their mistakes the price sometimes can be to high. My sister set rules and boundaries for all their 5 children, told them of the consequences of their actions and was of your mentality of let them choose and not be a nosy parent. Her oldest married outside the church and became inactive, another daughter became pregnant at the age of 16 and her 18 year old son got into drugs became inactive in the church and is basically a bum. I know that my sister did the best she could, was their best friend and trusted them to choose the right. The price her three kids paid for this I think is way too high.

Rain

[lilered]

I think Heavenly Father said it best. Teach a child by the time they are 8 and if you fail to do that then the sin be on your heads.

Most certaintly I agree. However, most 8 year olds aren't surfing the web indiscrimintly, have their own MySpace, etc.. Also, most do not have their own cell phone, nor do they possess pornography or go to movies containing it.

The thing that bothers me with this invasion of privacy parenting is that we have become a society that doesn't allow for personal responsibility. We don't let kids fail anymore.

While you refer it as invasion of privacy, I view it as being a responsible parent. Kids today are exposed to much higher levels of evil than I ever was at their age. Satan has many more tools in which to entice them and in my view our kids are often ill equipped because of innocense to realize they are being pulled towards to dark side until it becomes a problem. I prefer to intervene before it reaches a point of no return.

Once my boys are over the age of 8 then the sin is on their heads. I will still be there to guide them but I will also let the effects of their choices teach them, most of the time this will be drasticly more dynamic on them then my guidence will.

What I hear you saying is that your 9 yr old is perfectly capable of making good decisions when and if he or she is being tempted by someone much older, wiser, and evil. What makes you think you will know the sins they committ until it perhaps is too late. The harm is done. Your child meets someone they met on the internet, they are kidnapped and sold into child slavery as a prostitute or child pornography.

As a society we need to learn to embrace failure because if kids don't ever fail they will not have the motivation to succeed.

I understand your point when it comes to grades, being in charge of a church activity, being assigned to do a task. I don't however beleive it wise, when it comes to giving them text messaging, a cell phone, a computer, a car, etc. and then sitting back and wait for them to fail. As I mentioned earlier, I have been informed most kids are on drugs for two years, before the parents even have a clue. A lot can happen in a two year period, including their death, or an unintended overdose leading to brain damage, or a host of other evil things of this world. At least I will no I did everything within my power to watch over them and intercede for their own safety, health and well-being including protecting their tender spirit from witnessing these horrible things.

It is not that I don't trust my kids, I simply think that it is possible in their fight for right, they are not as expierenced as those who are trying to obtain their souls. I want to be sure that if evil tries to lead them astray, I know about it soon enough to intercede on their behalf.

Edited August 27, 2008 by lilered

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Physiologically the brain isn't fully developed until mid 20s - true. BUT culturally we keep pushing maturity further and further back. 100 years ago a 15 year old could have been considered an adult. History books, journals, and especially our LDS pioneer history is repleat with stories of children taking on the responsibility of adults - successfully! Jewish tradition brings a young man into adulthood at age 12 (the same age we ordain our young men to the priesthood). Someone earlier mentioned that we are afraid of personal responsibility - this is so true. We don't teach our children, anymore, how to be adults; so they figure it out on their own and very often far too late to avoid some of the worst tragedies.

So as Checkerboy said - teach them correct principles before they're 8 (and yes, I've found PLENTY of 8 year olds unsupervised on the internet with myspace pages etc). Teach your children correct principles, teach them responsibility and maturity while they're young and when they are old "they will not depart from it". I'm of the mind that if you teach them right when they are young and build that relationship of trust, respect, and communication that when they are 16 you won't need to worry or look over their shoulder or invade their privacy(/be a responsible parent).

And give your kids credit. As a teenager I was constantly irked that my parents never acknowledged any of the good things I was doing. A little positive feedback for something done right can be far more effective in directing a child's behavior than punishment for infractions.

:edit:

It is not that I don't trust my kids, I simply think that it is possible in their fight for right, they are not as expierenced as those who are trying to obtain their souls. I want to be sure that if evil tries to lead them astray, I know about it soon enough to intercede on their behalf.

Just a thought - if you keep interceding on their behalf, they will never develop the strength to withstand temptation on their own. Parenting isn't about protecting your children from evil, it's about teaching them how to make decisions that will protect themselves. My parents never taught me how to make decisions, they only "interceded on my behalf". And when it came time for me to make my own decisions I made a lot of poor ones and I've spent years recovering from them. Teach your kids how to make their own decisions, how to seek guidance in prayer and scriptures, and I believe they will be able to intercede on their own behalf when the firey darts of the adversary come flying at them.

Edited August 27, 2008 by puf_the_majic_dragon

[bmy-]

Moreso on a daughter than a son.. IMO. That's how it was in my family at least. Trust them until they give you a reason not to.

I've done so many things the right way because of the trust my parents placed in me. Sure I screwed up -- but knowing my parents were trusting me was the ultimate deterrant.

Then again I didn't have a 'Mormon Mother' my rules were generally "if you come home tonight lock the doors".