Snow and the Sabbath

[rampion]

Thanks for sharing that. I think that life changes from one time to another. This morning I was thinking about the Israelites being forbidden to gather manna on Sunday. But it was what they did every day. It's not like that for us. I could go to the store and buy all the pears I want, but I wanted to do something with my pears, and I don't get to do that every day.

I still have tons of apples out there too, but I think that a little snow might actually enhance them, so I didn't worry that much about the apples. I'll try to get them on Saturday. Anybody want some apples? I fee the ones that fall on the ground to the goats, and there are still tons on the trees. Not sprayed though, so there are bugs.

[rampion]

Oh, and I am very skilled at being hard on myself, but not so good at stopping or even identifying if I take it too far.

Edited October 13, 2008 by rampion

[pam]

You are no different than many of us rampion. Myself included.

[BenRaines]

Ox in the mire is when you find something happened that you are totally unaware of and have to act. Pushing the ox in to the mire or leaving the gate open and food in front of the mire so the ox will go there is not.

For me, and only for me, since that is the only person I have to answer for, procrastination is not a reason to break the sabbath.

We teach more to others, neighbors and children, by our actions than by what we say. Neighbor will judge LDS by what you do. Children will learn what is acceptable by what you do more than what you say.

Example: Many people, before caller id, would teach their children to lie. How is that you say. When the phone would ring they would have the child answer and then say they were not home. It seems small, petty but that is how children learn. Oh, it is ok to lie so I can, just a little one.

Thoughts according to Ben.

Ben Raines

[Heavenguard]

My non-LDS opinion:

If going picking and enjoying your fruit is something you do as a way of connecting with nature and appreciating the beautiful world God gave us, I don't see why its a problem. Just because you'd always meant to do it doesn't necessarily mean it's work, and neither is the fact that it requires some exertion.

I went hiking yesterday, and I'm sure the teachers of the time would have given me quite the stern lecture in having walked too far a distance, but I went to enjoy the last warm weekend of the fall season, look at the trees as they start to turn colour, and enjoy the company of my friends. These are appreciations of the things God has given us. If you went out and intended to enjoy the crisp air, and gather - so that you may enjoy - the last of the summer fruits, I don't see a distinction.

Work is something you do for your own gain, in these times, work usually directly translates into your paycheque. You can judge for yourself what your intentions were, and it'll be just between you and God, not you and your neighbour.

[lilered]

In my view, this is an opportunity for teaching/learning/practicing obediance. Depending on who the audiance happens to be. For kids and family (teaching), for neighbors etc. (practicing), for yourself obediance to Gods Commandments.

For this particuliar case, the fruit should have been picked by kids, it was not. So, a lesson could be learned by them concerning the results of procrastination and obediance.

For your neighbors, an example of non-obediance versus obediance and walking the talk.

For yourself, giving into temptation versus being obediant concerning working on the Sabbath versus keeping the Sabbath Day Holy.

We all making similiar choices everyday, trying sometimes to justify the degree by which we sin. Example a small little white lie versus telling a whopper.

Such is Lifes expierences. Choose The Right???????

[rockwoodchev]

So...

I have a question. The OP mentioned feeling some guilt for just being outside and the neighbor had called in the daughter from just being outside and just talking.

Huh??? I've never NEVER EVER heard anything about "Not going outside". Is this a Utah thing? Or is the word "outside" associated with "playing"? Very odd. I've grown up in the church, but I've not heard of this at all, ever. Please explain.

Now.. my personal views. I was at Smiths in Orem yesterday (Sunday) buying some items. It had been a while since I'd been in there on a Sunday (7 days) and I took a few minutes to just observe. There were lots of normal looking folks running around. There were several people in suits, white shirts, and dresses. I also noticed a few instances where it appeared they were just dropping of a DVD, but decided they needed bread as well, oh and a Coke.

My family participates in many activities on Sunday. We have lived outside the Utah area and participate in sporting events for the kids and there are regular sleep overs that start Sat afternoon and go into Sunday. These have generally not been a big deal for us. We dictate what we do (and don't do) on Sunday based on our personal family needs, values, and conflicts.

[rampion]

Well, part of my issue is that I keep finding myself with no opportunities to do any of the outside stuff during the week until Sunday, and then I want to go outside and do all the outside stuff that I never get to do because I'm not likely to get another chance until it's Sunday again. I'm starving for sunshine and for exercise, and not organized enough to get it during the week. I don't have any other days off most of the time. So I'm really wanting to do more than just go outside. I'm really wondering where the limit is.

My family growing up was pretty strict about going through the motions correctly, even though the spirit was missing. We weren't allowed to go outside at all if it was Sunday. Except to the car to go to church. Playing wasn't allowed (not that any of us really knew how to play anyway). Being normal, developmentally appropriate kids was frowned upon in my family any day of the week. We weren't ever encouraged to be physically active much in any way. So part of what I'm trying to sort out is where is the line between what the church teaches and what are the lingering fragments from my dysfunctional childhood. And I'm finding myself lost. I've even had visiting teaching partners who didn't think it was right to go visiting teaching on Sunday. That one confuses me.

By the way, I wasn't raised in Utah, and never had Mormon neighbors before I came to Utah, so had no point of reference to counteract my family's wierdnesses. And, within my earshot, my neighbor didn't say anything about Sunday to her daughter, but was talking about snow laundry and making a mess. I probably assumed that her real issue was that it was Sunday morning, especially since they are a family that spends a lot of time in the yard normally.

And then we have nonmember friends who don't understand why playing or working outside on Sunday is a problem at all. Some, who are Catholic, tell me about the Priest going out to play soccer with the kids right after church, and I'm wondering if we maybe take it to an extreme. Is it more gospel-related or culture-related?

Could we have a discussion about what outdoors activities most LDS people feel are okay on the sabbath? Like, how about going for a walk? What if it turns into a jog? Is exercise on Sunday not okay? And what about for those of us who are confined to indoor offices and computers all week? Sitting at the computer feels like more of the same to me. Is part of the point of keeping the sabbath that Sunday should be different from every other day? I can sometimes feel a difference in the air on Sunday, more outside than I can inside.

I can see how it can be a trap. I had a seminary teacher who told about how he started staying home from church to work in his yard and garden. After a while he was spending all day on Sundays outside doing yardwork and taking care of the flowers, etc., and he looked forward to being out there and getting compliments from all the people who would see him working and tell him how beautiful his yard was. But he became inactive doing that. But to me, that's an example of a lack of moderation. Too much of anything can become destructive or addictive. Is there a difference between this example and pulling a few weeds after church?

I'm confused. That's why I'm asking.

[rockwoodchev]

Hello Rampion.

So... you know your background better than us, but I would have to say that what you experienced is really right outside of normal.

Now.. There are going to be some that may hit me up side the head for giving this advice, but my advice would be this. "Listen to what everyone on here says, and then do what ever you want".

If I've had a Friday/Sat come and go and didn't get a jog in, I'll have no problem going for my 30 minute run on a Sunday.

If the only sunny day comes on a Sunday, and the lawn needs to be mowed, I'll mow it.

Last Saturday night, my son went to an overnight birthday party. He stayed up till 3am and got home about 2 hours before church would have started. He stayed home and slept.

We often travel on Sunday and I'll buy gas and eat in restaurants.

I was at the grocery store last Sunday buying something I'd forgotten the day before.

My kids have always used Sunday as a study day for school.

I would not hesitate to take a family bike ride on a Sunday.

I would watch a movie, play on the internet, etc..

One of my favorite things to do is to make love with my wife on Sunday morning.

We will go visit people, and play games on Sunday.

My kids are in musicals and sporting events that take place on Sundays.

I've taken my kids to horse competions, Taikwondo contests, and to attend plays, all on Sunday.

All of the above are family related.

The following items are NOT family related.

I try to not do any of my career work on Sunday.

We generally don't go skiing on Sunday

We don't go shopping for clothing on Sunday.

humm.... thats about it.

I'm sure you'll get others chiming in, but that is my list.