Another deep Question....

[MarginOfError]

Not for you but for others. I should place the word "ALL -". I was under the gun in trying to leave the office. Sorry.

Okay, just checking. Thanks again!

[abqfriend]

I do not know the answer of a child or an adult being possessed by an evil spirit. Adults do wrong things/sin-but are we possessed by an evil spirit? There is an ancient ritual sometimes but rarely performed in the Catholic faith tradition called Exorcism-to help rid someone possessd by an evil spirit.

Being possessed or having an inclination to sin are two different things.

In Catholic theology and most Christian theology-original sin (see other thread) is the in-born inclination to sin passed on from Adam, I realize that LDS do not believe this.

So Possession I see as different than an inclination to sin/do wrong.

Although I am not an expert on current Catholic theology-I know of no recent instance of exorcism on a child.

The Link Provided is an explanation on the Catholic Rite of Exorcism:

In part it says:

This new Vatican document clearly recognizes both the existence of the Devil and the reality of diabolical possession. In a short introduction, the document calls attention to the existence of both "angelic creatures" and others "called demons, who are opposed to God." Since the influence of the demonic can become apparent in people, places, or things, the document continues, the Church "has prayed, and continues to pray, that men will be freed from the snares of the Devil."

The new rite confirms "the victory of Christ and the power of the Church over the demons." It points to the rites in the Christian tradition: the "minor exorcism" of catechumens prior to their baptism and the major exorcisms conducted according to this ritual. The latter are designed to "drive out demons, or bring freedom from demonic influence, through the spiritual authority which Jesus confided in his Church."

Source: Catholic Culture : Catholic World News Feature Stories : Vatican releases new rite for exorcism

-Carol

Can children under the age of accountability be possessed by evil spirits? Does anyone have any literature on this they can share? This was also another topic of conversation last sunday, and I was under the assumption that they were protected? I was told they were allowed to be possessed, but were not responsible for their actions. What is the correct answer here?

[bytor2112]

In Catholic theology and most Christian theology-original sin (see other thread) is the in-born inclination to sin passed on from Adam, I realize that LDS do not believe this.

Articles of Faith:

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

[mominzion]

OK, this post is taking tons of different avenues. Wow...many ways to look at it.

Well my main thought is, children cannot sin (under the age of eight), so if they were possessed by an evil spirit, they wouldn't be accountable for their actions, that I understand....the question at hand is..

"IS AN EVIL SPIRIT ALLOWED TO POSSESS THE BODY OF A CHILD?"

Now on the matter of determining if a person is possessed by an evil spirit, or just a whack-a-do....I know we are given many helps to determine...I know you will know the difference between the an evil spirit and a child throwing a temper....like a prior poster posted, it is a dark consuming feeling....you will know by one of these means...

1. Holy ghost, the barer of truth and discernment. Whether you are a member or not, he will speak to you when needed. Members are blessed with his constant companionship as long as they are living righteously.

2. Discernment. Some are given this gift, it is true. Member or not member, we are ALL given spiritual gifts & talents. it is up to us to utilize these gifts or let them atrophy.

3. We are all given the light of christ. To be able to recognize the light...or truth.

I was taught that if we are attacked by the evil spirit, we can command him out (in the name of the Savior) and they have to comply. I don't have to have the priesthood to command an evil spirit from my presence. I don't know about possession, but in circumstances where I feel the evil spirit around me, I know I can cast it out.

Again, does anyone know if a child can be possessed?

[Hemidakota]

Thanks Carol...always something new to learn. I am still digesting the last link dealing with Catholic view with baptism [42-pages].

MZ, if we firmly believe in what the prophets received as revelation [see the previously listed D&C] quotes, it is stating that the minions have boundaries even they cannot cross. A good indication when the Savior casted out the legions of evil spirits, they made a special petition to the Savior to enter the swines from the Savior. As you guessed, animals are one of those boundaries.

The only way if a child is going to be possessed is by invitation only. Otherwise, it is off limits. But, that pretty much is the same for any mortal being. We must invite that evil minion in-order to be possessed or pretty much turned over to Lucifer bands, as in the case of those who refuse to repent, whether in the church or outside the church.

Hopefully, that answers your question.

Others, it is one of priesthood function to know how to Spiritual Discern evil.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Before I forget, I was reminded that even our church does at times, do exorcism but not in a sense of how the Catholic Priests carry out there normal way of ridding the evil spirit.

The first miracle of the restored church was a exorcism of Elder Newel Knight by the Prophet Joseph Smith:

reference: History of the Church, 1:82–83.

Ensign, 1989, January, "The Knight Family: Ever Faithful to the Prophet" By William G. Hartley

Article snippet: Shortly thereafter, Joseph Smith went to Colesville to preach and hold meetings, probably because he knew that the Knights were ready to receive the gospel. While there, he challenged Newel Knight to pray vocally. In the attempt, Newel was attacked by an evil spirit that lifted him from the floor “and tossed him about most fearfully.” Neighbors gathered and then saw the Prophet command the devil in the name of Jesus Christ to depart. Newel felt great relief and gladly accepted baptism. (This exorcism was the first miracle performed in the restored church.) He became the first of more than sixty of the Knight clan to join the Church.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Umm... the scripture said little children cannot SIN, not little children cannot be possessed.

How old was the child in the bible story? Who knows. But I doubt that there is a magic switch that is flipped when a child turns 8 and once it is flipped the child can be possessed.

So much we don't know!

SoJ

[Justice]

Well my main thought is, children cannot sin (under the age of eight)

I am going to get a little technical with words, even though I know I'm saying the same thing you did.

Maybe it would help to change the wording a little.

It's not that children under 8 cannot break laws, it's that if/when they do they are not held accountable because they do not fully understand "good and evil." These fall more in line with a "transgression," which transgressions are covered by the Atonement of Christ with no repentance needed. When they understand (good and evil) they have reached the age of accountability, which can be different for each child.

It is generally not exactly eight when a child understands. Often it is sooner, sometimes it is later. Eight is considered the age when most children understand and can repent.

When someone breaks a law, it is based on their level of understanding whether or not it is a transgression or sin.

So, maybe say "children are not held accountable for breaking laws until they reach the age of accountability?"

I don't know, maybe this has nothing to do with the question, but I think it shows that if anyone, no matter the age, is possessed and has less say in their actions they are held less accountable. Does that make sense? Afterall, I think the real question is if a person is possessed are they accountable for their actions.

My belief is anyone can be possesed, indiscriminate of age, unless Heavenly Father forbids it.

I believe Satan's problem with possessing people is that many can come to believe in God if they are shown there is a devil. So, evil spirits only do so when they are desperate. So, if he posseses anyone, that gives God opportunity to intervene and show His power, as in the case of Joseph Smith, oftentimes converting many to the truth.

[Guest ceeboo]

Again, does anyone know if a child can be possessed?

Again, absolutly yes, and have.:)

God bless,

Carl

[Dr T]

Again, absolutly yes, and have.:)

God bless,

Carl

as in "have been possessed" or "have known a possessed child"?

[Guest ceeboo]

as in "have been possessed" or "have known a possessed child"?

Hello Dr T ( my produce isle friend )

As in, I have a friend/customer who is a Catholic Priest. He was one of the Priests who were trained by the Vatican for executing exorcisms. He has experienced/ performed several himself. There are also many good books on this very real and scary topic. As my friend Father Eric tells me, " Carl be carefull with stuff you find interesting, it is VERY serious bad stuff"

One short example he has told me. He was meeting with a young child, requested by the parents ( who by that time already went through all the " eliminating possabilities " required by the Diosese before sending an authoritative Priest to handle possesions.

Well, to make this short, the child ( after about 30 minutes of the Priest demanding that the evil spirit show himself) began yelling at my Priest friend in fluent Latin for about 15minutes.

At any rate, it is absolutly real, does happen to our young and the evil spirits try and work this evil in ALL walks of life, young included:eek:

Peace,

Carl

[abqfriend]

Carl-can you give a link or source to this?

-So this is a personal experience of a priest you know?

Are such experiences documented offcially anywhere in general terms?

I find no clear examples of this in Sacred Scripture although that does not rule out the teaching and understanding of the Church as it relates to our sacred traditions and understandings.

There is a minor rite of exorcism in our Catholic sacrament of Baptism-but the rite does not imply possession.

See CCC section 1237

Link:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of Baptism

Also see CCC section 1673-on Exorcism

Link:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Sacramentals

-Carol

Again, absolutly yes, and have.:)

God bless,

Carl

Edited October 18, 2008 by abqfriend

[Dr T]

Thanks CeeBoo. side note, one of my sons is learning Latin right now. It's fun to listen to.

[Guest ceeboo]

Carl-can you give a link or source to this?

-So this is a personal experience of a priest you know?

Are such experiences documented offcially anywhere in general terms?

I find no clear examples of this in Sacred Scripture although that does not rule out the teaching and understanding of the Church as it relates to our sacred traditions and understandings.

There is a minor rite of exorcism in our Catholic sacrament of Baptism-but the rite does not imply possession.

See CCC section 1237

Link:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of Baptism

Also see CCC section 1673-on Exorcism

Link:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Sacramentals

-Carol

Hello Carol,

Link or source ???? does not imply possession??:confused:No examples is Sacred Scripture?? traditions and teachings or understandings of the Church???

I realize how important the catechism is to you and I appreciate that.

Yes, this is a personal experience ( one of many ) of a Priest I know.

Link or source?? Not sure what you are asking, there are several books acconting the Catholic Priests experiences in fighting and trying to remove these possessions. Yes, it is taught ( exorcisms ) to the chosen Priests that will have the responsability to perform these.

It is also interesting to me, I have been told by my Priest friend, that there is a real shortage of trainded Priests to handle the amount of need that exists today.

BTW, Do you not agree that there are indeed possessions and that Catholic Priests are trained to battle them??

You also suggest " does not imply possession " ( I am sure you get that from the catechism ) What, in your opinion, does it mean?? if not possessions ??

God bless,

Carl

[abqfriend]

Hi Carl,

Here is the quote from the CCC

"Since Baptism signifies liberation from sin and from its instigator the devil, one or more exorcisms are pronounced over the candidate. The celebrant then anoints him with the oil of catechumens, or lays his hands on him, and he explicitly renounces Satan. Thus prepared, he is able to confess the faith of the Church, to which he will be "entrusted" by Baptism"

Carl says-BTW, Do you not agree that there are indeed possessions and that Catholic Priests are trained to battle them??

-Yes I agree-some are-and with permission of their Bishop.

Carl says-You also suggest " does not imply possession " ( I am sure you get that from the catechism )

What, in your opinion, does it mean?? if not possessions ??

---See above from the CCC on exorcism as related to Baptism.-this is what I believe

--I think it is related to our (Catholic) understanding of original sin.

-Carol

[Tebium]

Can children under the age of accountability be possessed by evil spirits? Does anyone have any literature on this they can share? This was also another topic of conversation last sunday, and I was under the assumption that they were protected? I was told they were allowed to be possessed, but were not responsible for their actions. What is the correct answer here?

Then yes, they can behave as if they are possessed by evil spirits!

[Snow]

Can children under the age of accountability be possessed by evil spirits? Does anyone have any literature on this they can share? This was also another topic of conversation last sunday, and I was under the assumption that they were protected? I was told they were allowed to be possessed, but were not responsible for their actions. What is the correct answer here?

Can a supernatural evil creature with magical powers enter into a child's body against the child's will and compel the child to behave in certain ways?

Uh - I'm guessing no - for that matter, I'm not so worried about adults either, and, interestingly, in the entire history of earth, there has never been a single case where it was scientifically proven that such creature with magical powers have ever possessed anybody.

[Snow]

However, I would caution anyone who is does not have that authority and faith, to not practice Exorcism.

Why what do you think would happen? Would the devil get mad at you?

[Guest ceeboo]

Uh - I'm guessing no - for that matter, I'm not so worried about adults either, and, interestingly, in the entire history of earth, there has never been a single case where it was scientifically proven that such creature with magical powers have ever possessed anybody.

Hi Snow,

I would respectfully completly disagree :):)

God bless,

Carl

[Snow]

Hi Snow,

I would respectfully completly disagree :):)

God bless,

Carl

I'm reading through this thread and I am blinking in disbelief. I know this is an LDS site in 2008 and many posters here are supposedly reasonable, sentient, college educated adults, but it seems as if we have entered a time-space vortex and this is a town hall filled with uneducated fundamentalists who believe in witches in 1705.

Now that may not sound respectful to those of you who believe that magical creatures enter into and take control of your bodies, but what can I say... you believe that magical creatures can and do.

YouTube - Good Christian Woman Going off

[Guest ceeboo]

I'm reading through this thread and I am blinking in disbelief. I know this is an LDS site in 2008 and many posters here are supposedly reasonable, sentient, college educated adults, but it seems as if we have entered a time-space vortex and this is a town hall filled with uneducated fundamentalists who believe in witches in 1705.

Hello again Snow,

Me give you thanks for you in helping develop me under level brainage.

ummmmm, me so thank you for helping us all.

Me thank you :)

Peace and God bless:)

Carl

[Snow]

Hello again Snow,

Me give you thanks for you in helping develop me under level brainage.

ummmmm, me so thank you for helping us all.

Me thank you :)

Peace and God bless:)

Carl

Yeah - the sarcasm isn't working.

Any bets that the percentage of people who believe that magical creatures can and do physically enter into and take control of people's (children's) bodies has a direct and inverse correlation to their level of education?

[Guest ceeboo]

Yeah - the sarcasm isn't working.

Any bets that the percentage of people who believe that magical creatures can and do physically enter into and take control of people's (children's) bodies has a direct and inverse correlation to their level of education?

Hello again Snow,

Me no know and me no bet cuz me no have job cuz me only in 5th grade ( public school system ):)

Peace,

Carl

[abqfriend]

Nothing magic about it. Indeed some may believe they or their friend/loved one may be controlled by a force outside themselves-and some of these may have medical/psychological reasons--but evil/Satan/The Devil is real.

The greatest lie that Satan wishes to bring about is that Evil and the power of Satan does not exist.

Sacred Scripture/The Bible is full of accounts of Jesus casting out demons.

Was Jesus incorrect? Did demons and demon posession stop when Jesus died?

My guess is that such total posession is a rare occurence.

Let us not limit the power of Satan or think that he is not wandering around seeking whom he may devour as roaring lion. See 1st Peter 5:8.

I am a Catholic-but I found this LDS article interesting: Here is part:

When the Lord placed enmity between Eve’s children and the devil, Satan was told that he would bruise the heel of Eve’s seed, but her seed would bruise his head. (See Moses 4:21.) President Joseph Fielding Smith explained that “the ‘God of peace,’ who according to the scriptures is to bruise Satan, is Jesus Christ.” (Answers to Gospel Questions, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957, 1:3.) Satan would bruise the Savior’s heel by leading men to crucify Him. But through his death and resurrection, Christ overcame death for all of us; and through his atonement, he offers each of us a way to escape the eternal ramifications of sin. Thus, Satan’s machinations have been frustrated and eventually he will be judged, bound, and cast into hell forever. (See Rev. 20:1–10; D&C 29:26–29.)

Source:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

-Carol

I'm reading through this thread and I am blinking in disbelief. I know this is an LDS site in 2008 and many posters here are supposedly reasonable, sentient, college educated adults, but it seems as if we have entered a time-space vortex and this is a town hall filled with uneducated fundamentalists who believe in witches in 1705.

Now that may not sound respectful to those of you who believe that magical creatures enter into and take control of your bodies, but what can I say... you believe that magical creatures can and do.

YouTube - Good Christian Woman Going off

[Snow]

Nothing magic about it. Indeed some may believe they or their friend/loved one may be controlled by a force outside themselves-and some of these may have medical/psychological reasons--but evil/Satan/The Devil is real.

Then what do you mean "nothing magic about it?" If what you say is true, then how can spirits or the devil take possession of you if not by magic?

The greatest lie that Satan wishes to bring about is that Evil and the power of Satan does not exist.

I wonder if you are just making that up??? How do you know that is the "greatest lie that Satan wishes?" Maybe his greatest wish is for you to believe that God does not exist, or that sin is relative, or that you should postpone the day of your repentance or that Miely Cyrus has talent.

Sacred Scripture/The Bible is full of accounts of Jesus casting out demons.

Was Jesus incorrect? Did demons and demon posession stop when Jesus died?

Your question is a non-sequitar. Jesus didn't write the New Testament so it isn't a question of whether or not he is wrong. The Gospels were written by unknown authors who never even met Christ. They wrote down the oral tradition that had been told and retold and retold for over 30 plus years. Even if they wrote the story as accurately as it had been told to them, who knows what iterations it had gone through before, besides which, the people of the NT times were products of the NT times and interpreted events in light of the then-current cultural beliefs. They didn't know about epilepsy and mental illnesses like we do.