shanstress70 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by Cal+Oct 15 2004, 08:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Oct 15 2004, 08:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Kevin@Oct 13 2004, 11:18 AM Originally posted by -shanstress70@Oct 13 2004, 09:21 AM Originally posted by -Jenda@Oct 13 2004, 10:56 AM <!--QuoteBegin--shanstress70@Oct 13 2004, 08:13 AM Well, he is (was) SuperMan! John Kerry wasn't Superman, and it was his promise. I know. For the record, I can't stand either Bush or Kerry (nor their running mates). I'm still not sure who I'm voting for, if you can believe that! I'm still trying to sort out who is the lesser of the evils! Shan,In my mind the difference between the two presidential candidates is clear. Bush is clearly the more conservative of the two. He is against abortion, gun control, government run health care and he is for small government, less taxes and capitalism. As one who believes in capitalism, Bush is interested in stimulating the economy by letting people determine how they spend their money and making sure that they have more of it to spend by taxing them less. Kerry is for abortion, gun control, government run health care. He is very socialist in that he believes the government should do more for the American people and that the American people should be taxed to pay for these things. He favors and promotes inequality among classes in that he believes the rich should have to pay a greater percentage of their income in taxes. Kerry, according to his congressional voting record, is the most liberal senator in America. He is trying to appear to be more of a centrist or conservative democrat but his record exposes his attempts for what they are - political opportunism / flip-floping.I surely hope you will support Bush. We do not need an amoral, liberal socialist as our President. Gee Shan---you made a perfect case for NOT voting for Bush! Cal, this was Kevin stating the differences between the candidates. I think you are thinking it's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Your comments are nothing that baseless assertions. Care to provide any proof of Bush's lies or do you just expect us to take your word for it? Put up or lose your credibility (if you have any). Bush went before the american people and gave the clear impression that he was much more certain that there were WMD's in Iraq than he had ANY reason to be. It was his duty to level with the american people, instead he overstated the threat in order to further his own agenda against Iraq. I consider that as a lie to the american people. If you don't, tough luck. Many of the rest of us do.That's an interesting take. You're now breaking it down into the degree to which Bush should have represented the threat. Seems a bit too subjective to be calling a person a liar based upon such a conclusion. Do you think that Bush overstated the threat based upon the information he had at the time? Did he overstate the intelligence that he and John Kerry and the rest of congress relied upon? If so, why not share with us the data upon which you make such a comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by Unorthodox+Oct 15 2004, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unorthodox @ Oct 15 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Oct 14 2004, 04:01 PM We have a horrible form or government that does not workAgain, I'd like you to describe what it would take for you to say a government "worked." Theocracy. But only if the leader is a true Prophet. OK. But the criterion you offered for saying a government doesn't "work" is that it inevitably results in some people not being able to consent to be governed by someone who agrees with them on every point. Unless you've firet killed off or expelled everyone who doesn't consent to be governed by your hypothetical true prophet, you've got the same problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Which is why there will be many worlds with many governments with each world inhabited by people who are willing to abide by the laws on that world. So if you want to live on a world with the best laws, you better be prepared to follow the best law giver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I believe the Holy Ghost can help us decide who to vote for, based on the knowledge and insights we can receive from God. For instance, I am voting for one candidate over the other because I have received promptings from the Holy Ghost to tell me who is the better candidate. Not that the candidate I am voting for is a perfect candidate, without any flaws of his own, but I know he is the better candidate over the other candidate.I also believe that the candidate I have chosen could learn a thing or two from the other candidate, in that the other candidate has some good ideas of his own, or at least it appears that way sometimes, but those positive traits from the other candidate do not outweigh the candidate I have chosen as a better candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I can see your point, but as you said, there are people who are more ignorant than you who ARE going to be voting. Don’t you think you should at least vote for what you believe according to the best knowledge that you have available to you right now? And btw, I believe voting is a learn as you go kind of experience, and while you may later find out that the vote that you made was an error, you can at least rest assured that you acted upon the best knowledge that you knew was available to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helgaboy Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Do you think that Bush overstated the threat based upon the information he had at the time? Did he overstate the intelligence that he and John Kerry and the rest of congress relied upon? If so, why not share with us the data upon which you make such a comparison? John Kerry has stated that he and his collegues gave bush autherization to go to war after Bush said he wouldn't untill all diplomatic attempts failed. did that happen, NO, we were lucky Bush allowed the UN to leave before he started bombing. what did you think of Bush's lies during the debate which were quickly disproven before the debate was even over. Now I am not claiming John Kerry is anyone to look up to but I do know he will be a much better president than Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Originally posted by helgaboy@Oct 15 2004, 11:20 PM what did you think of Bush's lies during the debate which were quickly disproven before the debate was even over. I know.And, what did you think about John Kerry who spit on that lady backstage before the debate because she didn't avert her gaze when he picked his nose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Un,As for the American system...the main problem is a lack of reliable information. We have 2 parties giving us opposite information. And unless I go study politics, economics, history, etc. for the next 30 years and become a true expert on those subjects I can never KNOW who is right. I can only listen to the propaganda on both sides.The process is adversarial, just like the trial of a lawsuit. Having each side present its case as best it can has proven to be an excellent vehicle for making sure all the relevant evidence gets presented.You're suggesting that since both sides are only presenting "propaganda," it's impossible for you to know the truth. No offense, but boo freaking hoo. Be a man, sift through the propaganda as best you can, notice which charges get answered and which ones get avoided, and piece the puzzle together. If you're ever called to serve on a jury, that's exactly what you're going to have to do -- and you're potentially going to have the power to ruin a person's life. Jacques Derrida is dead, and not a moment too soon. He's gotten too many smart people thinking that because you won't obtain perfectly objective truth 100% of the time, therefore there is no objective truth at all. That a decision is difficult to make doesn't excuse one from trying to make it. You don't need to study for 30 years to be an effectively informed citizen. You can participate effectively at whatever level of knowledge you achieve. You're going to get it wrong a lot of the time -- maybe even close to half the time. Doesn't matter. It's not like democracy is some Protestant church, where you get sent to hell for taking the wrong conclusion from competing evidence. When the questions are close, if you come down on one side, it's likely that someone in approximately the same position as you will come down on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_kid_in_the_korner Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Originally posted by Traci+Oct 13 2004, 03:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traci @ Oct 13 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--helgaboy@Oct 13 2004, 02:34 PM I don't belive things will be worse when Kerry is President. For the mere fact that Bush has been the worst president this country has ever seen. For too Long poloticians have kept office simply for being the lesser of two evils it is time americans voted out those who do not fulfill their promises. Bush also Lies to the American people so if you want a liar in office he is who you vote for. whereas you are a fencesitter maybe you should go to this website and get some more info for yourself.kerryrightformormons.com Kerry Right For Mormons Dot Com however how can u say no to this...http://www.StupidVideos.com/?VideoID=861 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 But all this debate still doesn't change the fact that these so-called quotes from Kerry are either out-and-out fakes or were from Dan Quayle. And he was a Republican, wasn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Originally posted by Matt@Oct 17 2004, 01:19 PM But all this debate still doesn't change the fact that these so-called quotes from Kerry are either out-and-out fakes or were from Dan Quayle. And he was a Republican, wasn't he? HOW DARE HE STEAL STUPID SAYINGS OF DAN QUAYLE'S!!! Can't he make up his own stupid sayings??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 But surely, nobody could be as stupid as Dan Quayle? I mean, he was so stupid that besides him, George W. Bush is merely an idiot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 ...and next to Geroge W. you're just a sad goober whith no real impact on the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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