Request for information on the doctrine of "unclean races"

[jamesnz1982]

Hi,

I am researching the claims of the University of Waikato thesis (authored by Roel van Leeuwen, who was awarded a Masters degree with Class Honors) that makes the following claims:

1. "...elements of the theology and praxis of the LDS may have had a direct or indirect influence on the evolution of Bolton’s religious personality, particularly up until the end of the time covered by this study.", page 18 [bolton is claimed to be a neo-Nazi Satanist who left LDS because of "the amount of ‘inter-racial marriage"]

2. "The first is Mormonism’s racial consciousness. ... makes a firm distinction between the black and white races, describing the black races as the cursed descendants of Cain and explicitly stating that the blackness of skin is a sign of punishment by God for wickedness and sin. While the LDS admitted blacks into the Church from the 1830s, it wasn’t until 1978, well after the period in which Bolton was associated with the Church, that black (and brown) skinned men could be admitted into the priesthood.", page 18 [source given as Alan Cherry and Jessie L. Embry, ‘Blacks’ in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Daniel H. Ludlow (ed.),(New York: Macmillan, 1992), pp.125-127 - It is implied that "brown skinned men" were excluded, meaning Polynesians and Maori in New Zealand]

3. "...that of elect and unclean races, a secretive and hidden brotherhood of the chosen few, and a vision of history which is firmly entrenched in the realm of faith rather than sound scholarship, would later surface in the teaching of the Order.", page 19. [the Order being a group founded by Kerry Bolton, and allegedly neo-Nazi in outlook, and here it is claimed that the basis for its teachings are in Mormonism]

The following is known about the thesis:

1. Roel van Leeuwen was award a degree of Master of Arts in Philosophy at The University of Waikato (with class honors, apparently equivalent of a 'A' grade pass)

2. The supervisors were Professor Dov Bing (Political Studies) and Ms. Marg Coldham-Fussell (Religious Studies).

3. The thesis was examined by two leading New Zealand academics in the capacity of external examiners, according to statements by Dov Bing to the New Zealand media.

4. Dov Bing and Roel van Leeuwen both claim the scholarship is accurate and well researched (according to reports in the New Zealand media)

The thesis can be found here: Roel Van Leeuwen Thesis Original

I am interested in any comments on the claims relating to unclean races and the exclusion of "brown skinned" (Maori and Polynesian) people from the LDS Church. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

James

[Vanilla]

I am interested in any comments on the claims relating to unclean races and the exclusion of "brown skinned" (Maori and Polynesian) people from the LDS Church. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely, James

Hi James-

I have to admit that your post caught my eye because of the author of the thesis in question, Roel van Leeuwen is someone that I have had the pleasure of discussing religion with many times in the past, although this particular issue was never discussed.

I had never heard that the church excluded the priesthood from "brown skinned men" (Polynesians and Maori) so I did a search and came up with the following two articles.

The first is a great article in an LDS publication written specifically for the teenage youth of the Church called the New Era. This particular article was written in 1981 and goes into great detail about the Maori people and the Church.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=a3e7ba9ff599b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

The second is from another LDS publication, The Ensign, (written for the adult members).

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=5aa627cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

I am also including a couple of other websites, two of which are dedicated to the black members of the Church.

There is a website for Black Latter-Day Saint members and it can be found here:

http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/

This is a website dedicated to black members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (It is an un-official website)

http://www.blacklds.org/

This is the Official website for the LDS Church:

http://www.lds.org

I hope these articles can shed some light on your question. :)

Vanilla

Edited November 21, 2008 by Vanilla
Changed wording to exclude "Official" website.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Hi,

I am researching the claims of the University of Waikato thesis (authored by Roel van Leeuwen, who was awarded a Masters degree with Class Honors) that makes the following claims:

1. "...elements of the theology and praxis of the LDS may have had a direct or indirect influence on the evolution of Bolton’s religious personality, particularly up until the end of the time covered by this study.", page 18 [bolton is claimed to be a neo-Nazi Satanist who left LDS because of "the amount of ‘inter-racial marriage"]

2. "The first is Mormonism’s racial consciousness. ... makes a firm distinction between the black and white races, describing the black races as the cursed descendants of Cain and explicitly stating that the blackness of skin is a sign of punishment by God for wickedness and sin. While the LDS admitted blacks into the Church from the 1830s, it wasn’t until 1978, well after the period in which Bolton was associated with the Church, that black (and brown) skinned men could be admitted into the priesthood.", page 18 [source given as Alan Cherry and Jessie L. Embry, ‘Blacks’ in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Daniel H. Ludlow (ed.),(New York: Macmillan, 1992), pp.125-127 - It is implied that "brown skinned men" were excluded, meaning Polynesians and Maori in New Zealand]

3. "...that of elect and unclean races, a secretive and hidden brotherhood of the chosen few, and a vision of history which is firmly entrenched in the realm of faith rather than sound scholarship, would later surface in the teaching of the Order.", page 19. [the Order being a group founded by Kerry Bolton, and allegedly neo-Nazi in outlook, and here it is claimed that the basis for its teachings are in Mormonism]

The following is known about the thesis:

1. Roel van Leeuwen was award a degree of Master of Arts in Philosophy at The University of Waikato (with class honors, apparently equivalent of a 'A' grade pass)

2. The supervisors were Professor Dov Bing (Political Studies) and Ms. Marg Coldham-Fussell (Religious Studies).

3. The thesis was examined by two leading New Zealand academics in the capacity of external examiners, according to statements by Dov Bing to the New Zealand media.

4. Dov Bing and Roel van Leeuwen both claim the scholarship is accurate and well researched (according to reports in the New Zealand media)

The thesis can be found here: Roel Van Leeuwen Thesis Original

I am interested in any comments on the claims relating to unclean races and the exclusion of "brown skinned" (Maori and Polynesian) people from the LDS Church. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

James

Um. Maoris and other assorted Polys weren't included in the LDS priesthood ban. They could have it the whole time.

[Wingnut]

http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/

The copyright at the bottom of this page says Genesis Group. I don't think this is an official LDS site, as you indicate.

[Vanilla]

The copyright at the bottom of this page says Genesis Group. I don't think this is an official LDS site, as you indicate.

I stand corrected. It does not say "Official" site anywhere on the home page.

FYI- The Genesis Group was established to meet the needs of Black members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, many of whom were descendants of early pioneers, with the hope of reactivating those who had left the Church and of supporting new converts of African descent. It was established in 1971 under the direction of President Joseph Fielding Smith with the assistance of Elders Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, and Boyd K. Packer. The current General Authority who oversees Genesis is Seventy President Ronald A. Rasband.

[HiJolly]

Hi,

I am researching the claims of the University of Waikato thesis (authored by Roel van Leeuwen, who was awarded a Masters degree with Class Honors) that makes the following claims:

1. "...elements of the theology and praxis of the LDS may have had a direct or indirect influence on the evolution of Bolton’s religious personality, particularly up until the end of the time covered by this study.", page 18 [bolton is claimed to be a neo-Nazi Satanist who left LDS because of "the amount of ‘inter-racial marriage"]

That statement, due to its wording, is literally IMPOSSIBLE to disprove. Logically speaking. In my opinion, it's almost certainly true.

2. "The first is Mormonism’s racial consciousness. ... makes a firm distinction between the black and white races, describing the black races as the cursed descendants of Cain and explicitly stating that the blackness of skin is a sign of punishment by God for wickedness and sin. While the LDS admitted blacks into the Church from the 1830s, it wasn’t until 1978, well after the period in which Bolton was associated with the Church, that black (and brown) skinned men could be admitted into the priesthood.", page 18 [source given as Alan Cherry and Jessie L. Embry, ‘Blacks’ in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Daniel H. Ludlow (ed.),(New York: Macmillan, 1992), pp.125-127 - It is implied that "brown skinned men" were excluded, meaning Polynesians and Maori in New Zealand]

Yeah, I think the 'brown' reference is pretty shaky. As to blacks, there is no question in my mind that many Church leaders were (sadly) heavily influenced by the social standards and norms of the day, in being bigoted against blacks. Indeed, it is immensely difficult NOT to be bigoted, in one thing or another.

3. "...that of elect and unclean races, a secretive and hidden brotherhood of the chosen few, and a vision of history which is firmly entrenched in the realm of faith rather than sound scholarship, would later surface in the teaching of the Order.", page 19. [the Order being a group founded by Kerry Bolton, and allegedly neo-Nazi in outlook, and here it is claimed that the basis for its teachings are in Mormonism]

I would agree. The Book of Mormon text I think would support this, even without the bigotry of certain prominent LDS.

I am interested in any comments on the claims relating to unclean races and the exclusion of "brown skinned" (Maori and Polynesian) people from the LDS Church. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

James

FWIW.

HiJolly

[Moksha]

Um. Maoris and other assorted Polys weren't included in the LDS priesthood ban. They could have it the whole time.

Actually, there was at least one pacific islander group that was excluded initially, because they had African-like features. Koakaipo at the MAD forum had mentioned them before (I forget their island name). Armand Mauss also mentions them in his book.

Anyway, David O. McKay certified them kosher by administrative fiat many years ago. He really should have done the same thing with the African and racial purity bans, but that is another story.

.

[jamesnz1982]

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. It seems the thesis is written to give the impression that Maori and Polynesians were included in the same "ban" on Africans with regards to exclusion from the Priesthood. For what it's worth, the thesis received class honors and was judged as worthy of this by two external assessors from New Zealand universities. If the thesis is not withdrawn permanently then the LDS will have a published academic source which hints at racism and exclusion of "brown skinned" men, not just "black skinned" men. However, this seems fitting with the tone of the rest of the thesis. Having read it fully now I can see there are a lot of unreferenced claims and it seems to be very dubious. Roel van Leeuwen (the author) is apparently a Freemason and a pagan. Roel van Leeuwen also makes dubious claims about a man who was also a Freemason, claiming him to be a neo-Nazi Satanist (well, that the group he ran was). This seems highly dubious also. It would indicate that the New Zealand schooling system leaves a lot to be desired when references aren't checked and no secondary research is required when labelling individuals or groups as racist or neo-Nazi.

Thanks,

James

[deseretgov]

I'm LDS I have an interracial marriage. Not sure if that does anything for the topic but I thought I'd put it out there.

[Guest DeborahC]

Sometimes I think that history should remain HISTORY -- and we should look FORWARD, but that's just me...

[Moksha]

Sometimes I think that history should remain HISTORY -- and we should look FORWARD, but that's just me...

Or at least that was you in the past. Perhaps we need updates on this... :)

[christmasvalleyfarms]

I just watched an interesting DVD which was mentioned in a discussion here on another thread. It's entitled Blacks in the Scriptures, and it's done by a couple of LDS African-American brethren. I learned some really interesting and valuable stuff - there's a website by the same name if anyone's interested. There were actually a few black men ordained to the priesthood in the early days of the Church, but the practice did not continue. One of those black brethren did some things he shouldn't have - unfortunately! Maybe that played a part in the Church backing off of that? Totally speculative there!

Like the Israelites who had to wander for years before they were "ready", unfortunately it was very hard to throw off all the influences of slavery and took time to overcome even within Church members. Look at how long it has taken our country to make that journey? I think HIJolly hit it on the head when he said that it is really hard to take someone, even a church leader, totally beyond the influence of their times and the prejudices of their times. That doesn't make them evil - just human.

There was a statement by Bruce R. McConkie after the 1978 revelation - he basically said whatever was said up to that date was policy, not doctrine, and policies change - just disregard any earlier positions on the issue because they were made based on incomplete information and fortunately now we have better information and let's just go forward from here.

I'd recommend checking out the site/video. Fascinating and in depth scriptural research on genealogy of color in the scriptures - you'll be surprised at all the people of color in there - all Ham's descendants, the Canaanites for just one group there (for example, Melchizedek, Boaz[and who descended from him??!]) God certainly is no respecter of persons and anyone who has attempted to use His word to justify prejudice is just really wrong.

[susieSA]

Um. Maoris and other assorted Polys weren't included in the LDS priesthood ban. They could have it the whole time.

They were excluded... Along with a few others....

[MrNirom]

God's ways are not man's ways. The sooner man realizes this.. the better.

[Moksha]

God's ways are not man's ways. The sooner man realizes this.. the better.

Guess that means we should change our ways....

[bert10]

There are two things one must consider before discussing "Unclean Races".

First what does unclean means.....and secondly what we have to consider is before the New Everlasting Covenant and what happened after.

Unclean people was talked about by Isaiah. He mentions that the Unclean cannot walk on the Way of Holiness.

Isaiah 35:8 - And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

What is the difference between a Wayfaring man and a unclean man?

Isaiah 30:21 - And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

The difference between a WAYfaring man and a Unclean man is the Ability to hear God in ones heart and to be led by that Spirit.

-----------------------------------

Unclean Races.....

The Covenant was with Abraham and his descendants on to Israel. Only the nation of Israel had a few people who would hear the Lord in their hearts.

The vision of Peter.

In those days after the fulfillment of many of the promises to Abraham and Jacob etc..the Lord instituted a new and everlasting Covenant which made all men who cannot hear God in their hearts unclean and all men who would hear God in their hearts clean.

The Races of old are still here with us today. The only difference since the days of Abraham and Israel isl.....if they remain unclean it is their choice. If they do not come unto Christ by hearing and learning of the Father - they shall continue to know poverty, tyranny, wars, famines all types of miseries. To show that my words are true...on Carm I have ask the Christians many times to Name me three African nations...that know prosperity, freedom, happiness, justice, to the same level as the western civilization. They could not do it...and they get angry with me.

A recent example...Rhodesia known as Zimbabwee today went from a food exporter and job exporter under the Rule of the Government of Smith to dire poverty, miseries mass starvation, corruptions under the rule of Robert Mugabe.

We LDS know why these things are happening over there. For the Lord stated that if any blessing is given it will be by obedience unto the Law it is predicated upon.

P/s All curses and limitations can be overcome by faith. For example even though Jesus had said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel....and that it was not meet to give to dogs the bread of the children...that woman of Canaan demonstrated great faith did receive even though she was not suppose to at this time and had a daughter saved.

Every nation, people and individual shall receive according to their doings, thoughts and words. And if any shall receive any blessing it shall be because they fulfill the law upon which the blessing is predicated on. Today the difference between clean and unclean is predicated on obedience to the laws of God.

In nations where the Spirit of their Ancestors still predominate they cannot break the chains of slavery, poverty, miseries, etc. Their children are still walking in the paths of uncleaness. - They cannot receive the blessings of God until they learn to hear and obey Him.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Hi,

I am researching the claims of the University of Waikato thesis (authored by Roel van Leeuwen, who was awarded a Masters degree with Class Honors) that makes the following claims:

1. "...elements of the theology and praxis of the LDS may have had a direct or indirect influence on the evolution of Bolton’s religious personality, particularly up until the end of the time covered by this study.", page 18 [bolton is claimed to be a neo-Nazi Satanist who left LDS because of "the amount of ‘inter-racial marriage"]

2. "The first is Mormonism’s racial consciousness. ... makes a firm distinction between the black and white races, describing the black races as the cursed descendants of Cain and explicitly stating that the blackness of skin is a sign of punishment by God for wickedness and sin. While the LDS admitted blacks into the Church from the 1830s, it wasn’t until 1978, well after the period in which Bolton was associated with the Church, that black (and brown) skinned men could be admitted into the priesthood.", page 18 [source given as Alan Cherry and Jessie L. Embry, ‘Blacks’ in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Daniel H. Ludlow (ed.),(New York: Macmillan, 1992), pp.125-127 - It is implied that "brown skinned men" were excluded, meaning Polynesians and Maori in New Zealand]

3. "...that of elect and unclean races, a secretive and hidden brotherhood of the chosen few, and a vision of history which is firmly entrenched in the realm of faith rather than sound scholarship, would later surface in the teaching of the Order.", page 19. [the Order being a group founded by Kerry Bolton, and allegedly neo-Nazi in outlook, and here it is claimed that the basis for its teachings are in Mormonism]

The following is known about the thesis:

1. Roel van Leeuwen was award a degree of Master of Arts in Philosophy at The University of Waikato (with class honors, apparently equivalent of a 'A' grade pass)

2. The supervisors were Professor Dov Bing (Political Studies) and Ms. Marg Coldham-Fussell (Religious Studies).

3. The thesis was examined by two leading New Zealand academics in the capacity of external examiners, according to statements by Dov Bing to the New Zealand media.

4. Dov Bing and Roel van Leeuwen both claim the scholarship is accurate and well researched (according to reports in the New Zealand media)

The thesis can be found here: Roel Van Leeuwen Thesis Original

I am interested in any comments on the claims relating to unclean races and the exclusion of "brown skinned" (Maori and Polynesian) people from the LDS Church. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

James