What in the heck? No caffeine?

[Bry_guy]

"PS: My goal for 2009 is to totally quit drinking all soda's and Ice Tea."

Mine too after I finish this last 2 litre of Dr.Pepper. No but really, I guess I have to ween myself off slowly or else I'll get bad headaches/withdrawals. I am such a pop-a-holic. And I like Red Bulls too.

[Hemidakota]

So I was chatting in a message board today with some people who were asking me about the church, and were asking about the coffee/tea issue.

Well, there was another Mormon there that made the claim that NO caffeine whatsoever was supposed to be consumed. None.

I've never heard this, i've just heard coffee and tea. I tried to tell her that what she heard was nonsense, but is there any truth to this?

I have reason to believe that she's just a fanatical anti posing as a member to stir animosity towards the church, but that's another story entirely. Has there ever been a rule about caffeine within the church? Heck I see kids with pop at church all the time.

Have him come on this forum. We can assist in correcting his knowledge.

[Hemidakota]

See, that's what I thought but I had never heard anything about it at all. Mormons seem to drink as much coke as anybody else. My bishop and my husband bond over their passion for Mt. Dew.

The problem with this issue, dark chocolate has higher level of caffeine than what is any soda. Now, if you want to use the caffeine issue then perhaps we need to removed anything that derived from cocoa bean.

[Iggy]

The problem with this issue, dark chocolate has higher level of caffeine than what is any soda. Now, if you want to use the caffeine issue then perhaps we need to remove anything that is derived from cocoa bean.

Health wise, yes we do.

What was it that Joseph Smith said? Something like, I give them the correct principles and let them govern themselves.

I believe it is much the same with Father. He has given us such wonderful principles, doctrines, and commandments. We now need to govern ourselves. Choose what is the right path to follow.

Tea has wonderful medical properties. The one I know of is to place wet steeped tea leaves directly on a burn, it helps the burn to heal and prevents scarring. As a child I placed my right hand on a hot burner. My mother placed wet tea leaves in a cotton glove and put the glove on me. When the glove dried out, she would change out the dried tea leaves with fresh tea leaves. That is why I have a tin of loose tea leaves in with my emergency medical supplies.

Also, whiskey/rye was probably commonly used as antiseptics prior to 1920, when Isopropyl alcohol (Rubbing Alcohol) was created. Now days it is infinitely cheaper to store Isopropyl alcohol (I get it for $0.97 a bottle)

than to purchase whiskey/rye.

Father tells us it is NOT for the belly. I interpret that to mean, not to be orally consumed.

[Iggy]

"PS: My goal for 2009 is to totally quit drinking all soda's and Ice Tea.

"

Mine too after I finish this last 2 litre of Dr.Pepper. No but really, I guess I have to ween myself off slowly or else I'll get bad headaches/withdrawals. I am such a pop-a-holic. And I like Red Bulls too.

When I decided to finally quit drinking coffee, I was drinking nearly 3 pots a day. I knew I was going to have headaches. I also knew that those headaches would probably be migraines. I tried doing the weaning thing. Half decaffinated, have regular coffee. Didn't do too well with that.

Finally I decided that getting the headaches would be the penance I would give for drinking the stuff for as long as I did.

Yes, I got headaches. I got one migraine about 3 days into it. When that finally went away (used pain pills the Dr gave me), I had a simple behind the eyes and nose head ache that lasted nearly two weeks.

I did drink Classic Coke though, so I really didn't give up ALL of the caffine. I really don't like Hot Cocoa. It is sickly sweet to me. I do love my chocolates.

I am diabetic, so all candy must be given up. Candy to me is anything with chocolate.

Bry_Guy, try drinking Pero Pero in place of the coffee. I use a rounded teaspoon (not measuring teaspoon) to 16 oz. of boiling water. Then I add cold milk along with splenda. At night, just before bed, I will add a pinch of cinnamon or allspice to it also. I have found Pero in the coffee/tea section of the store and also the Organic/Health Food section.

Every Wal Mart I have ever been in carries it. In the coffee section. So does Fred Myer, in the Organic/Health food section. You may have to just suffer through the headaches. Use a non-aspirin for the pain, not the caffine.

[Hemidakota]

Health wise, yes we do.

What was it that Joseph Smith said? Something like, I give them the correct principles and let them govern themselves.

I believe it is much the same with Father. He has given us such wonderful principles, doctrines, and commandments. We now need to govern ourselves. Choose what is the right path to follow.

Tea has wonderful medical properties. The one I know of is to place wet steeped tea leaves directly on a burn, it helps the burn to heal and prevents scarring. As a child I placed my right hand on a hot burner. My mother placed wet tea leaves in a cotton glove and put the glove on me. When the glove dried out, she would change out the dried tea leaves with fresh tea leaves. That is why I have a tin of loose tea leaves in with my emergency medical supplies.

Also, whiskey/rye was probably commonly used as antiseptics prior to 1920, when Isopropyl alcohol (Rubbing Alcohol) was created. Now days it is infinitely cheaper to store Isopropyl alcohol (I get it for $0.97 a bottle)

than to purchase whiskey/rye.

Father tells us it is NOT for the belly. I interpret that to mean, not to be orally consumed.

We are talking about CAFFEINE Iggy and not consuming TEA here. Tea and Coffee is part of the WoW. Caffeine is not mentioned and there is a reason why. However, there is healthy amount information about toxic levels, which is over 200 plus within both hot drinks that is a major issue. If we are planning to add CAFFEINE, then we need to find anything that contains the cocoa bean and not be partakers.

This is why Prophets will not change the current doctrine and leave this in your hand make the choice - as you already stated.

[Iggy]

We are talking about CAFFEINE Iggy and not consuming TEA here. Tea and Coffee is (are) part of the WoW. Caffeine is not mentioned and there is a reason why. However, there is healthy amount information about toxic levels, which is over 200 plus within both hot drinks that is a major issue. If we are planning to add CAFFEINE, then we need to find anything that contains the cocoa bean and not be partakers.

This is why Prophets will not change the current doctrine and leave this in your hand make the choice - as you already stated.

The article I posted was about Caffeine. Nearly every thread about the WoW gets derailed into being about caffeine. Tea has caffeine in it. It is also about the soft drinks, energy drinks that have it. CAFFEINE is bad for us.

So what I get from you is it is okay to consume caffeine as long as it is not Tea or Coffee. Did you read the entire article Hemi? Or have your fingers typed out of sync with your thoughts?

You don't know for a certainty that the Prophet will not change Doctrine, OR are you privy to the thoughts of the Prophet??

NO where in the WoW does it state that we are not to consume illegal drugs. Meth, Cocaine, Heroine, Pot, LSD, etc. Nor does it state that we are not to abuse prescription drugs.

Yet it is implied, and we hearken to that and don't abuse drugs. Or, we SHOULD not abuse drugs.

Pres. Hinckley has pretty much stated that in For The Strength of the Youth booklet. That booklet is not canonized scripture/doctrine. But it is as good as.

[Hemidakota]

I think you really don't understand where Caffeine is derive from. Hot drinks have nothing to do with Caffeine Iggy. Go back and read previous articles that explained the reason why Joseph was told.

Now Iggy, do you eat Ice Cream, Chocolate candy bars, cookies with chocolate chips? Then according to your accord, stop now.

[BenRaines]

Lets keep this with the original post. Lets not make this personal.

No personal attacks.

Ben Raines

[Maureen]

...This habit involves the abuse of a drug to which most people give little thought, even though it is now the most commonly abused drug on the planet. What was her habit? Excessive cola consumption....

...While we are counseled against taking addictive substances or harmful drugs, the Word of Wisdom does not specifically prohibit caffeine. However, I believe that if we follow the spirit of the Word of Wisdom, we will be very careful about what we consume, particularly any substance that can have a negative impact on our bodies. This is true regarding any drug, substance, or even food that may be damaging to one’s health. This includes caffeine. Think of all the problems that excessive caffeine use causes that could be avoided by following this counsel.

"Everything in moderation, nothing in excess."

I think the key to consuming anything is not to do it to excess. An obvious cause of obesity is the fact that many people over eat. It's the over consumption of foods that have limited nutritional value. It's a "supersize" attitude that has bad consequences. Iggy, you even mentioned that you used to drink 3 pots of coffee daily. That is definitely not a healthy amount. People have to get their heads around that it might not be what you eat/drink, but how much you eat/drink.

M.

[Hemidakota]

True... love that phrase.

Ben, it was a 'knee jerk reaction' in giving a logical answer to make someone think about the line of reasoning. Nothing personal! There is too much knowledge out there that members need to research the background of why that revelation was given during Joseph's time. But Maureen is correct: "Everything in moderation, nothing in excess." Even excessive water consumption can kill a person and that is not part of the WoW.

[BenRaines]

Oh so we should use "common sense" along with what the Word of Wisdom says in scripture and what the Prophets and Apostles have said. That makes sense to me.

Not a whole lot of need of interpretation.

Ben Raines

[Iggy]

I totally give up

Hemi you are not getting what I am saying. I am not saying we ignore the drinking hot drinks advice that is in the WoW, which has been interpreted as coffee and tea.

I am saying that FINALLY some one from the church has written about the serious bad effects that caffiene has on us. AND that the Ensign published this article. FINALLY the real word is out on caffeine.

FINALLY we are being cautioned to NOT consume the energy drinks, the sodas that have caffeine.

Hemi then are you saying that if the tea and coffee are cold, as in iced, then it is okay to drink them???

[Maureen]

...I am saying that FINALLY some one from the church has written about the serious bad effects that caffiene has on us. AND that the Ensign published this article. FINALLY the real word is out on caffeine.

FINALLY we are being cautioned to NOT consume the energy drinks, the sodas that have caffeine...

Actually, the article is talking about caffeine abuse, not moderate consumption of it.

Caffeine Abuse and the Word of Wisdom

Now what does this mean for us as Latter-day Saints? While we are counseled against taking addictive substances or harmful drugs, the Word of Wisdom does not specifically prohibit caffeine. However, I believe that if we follow the spirit of the Word of Wisdom, we will be very careful about what we consume, particularly any substance that can have a negative impact on our bodies. This is true regarding any drug, substance, or even food that may be damaging to one’s health. This includes caffeine. Think of all the problems that excessive caffeine use causes that could be avoided by following this counsel. Had my patient Mrs. Jones avoided caffeine or at least used it in moderation, she likely would have fared much better.

Of course, not everyone who drinks caffeine will have a negative health consequence. However, both the quality and the quantity of life can be affected by the misuse of caffeine....

(Thomas J. Boud, “The Energy Drink Epidemic,” Ensign, Dec 2008, 48–52)

M.

[Hemidakota]

I am not a fan of Energy Drinks or excessive soda consumption. Or matter of fact, anything that is not done in moderation to include intake of excessive protein. This was a major problem for me years ago when I use to consume major quantity of protein but not fully balancing the diet for all range of food products. Coming off was hard for the body as it with anything done in unbalance proportionately.

[Casslan]

Actually, if you want to follow the "no caffeine" route, then no church member should ever eat chocolate again!

switch to white chocolate - its caffeine free!

[MarginOfError]

"Everything in moderation, nothing in excess."

I think the key to consuming anything is not to do it to excess. An obvious cause of obesity is the fact that many people over eat. It's the over consumption of foods that have limited nutritional value. It's a "supersize" attitude that has bad consequences. Iggy, you even mentioned that you used to drink 3 pots of coffee daily. That is definitely not a healthy amount. People have to get their heads around that it might not be what you eat/drink, but how much you eat/drink.

M.

Just want to clarify that obesity is often caused by consuming too many calories compared to the level of exercise you perform. During the Olympics, NBC did a special on Michael Phelps's diet, and they calculated he averaged about 6,000 calories a day! He could do that because he was exercising so much it burned as much as he ingested. When we talk about having a balanced diet, it doesn't just refer to a good variety of foods, but also to a balanced intake and outtake of calories from our system.

(None of this is intended to make light of genetic predispositions to obesity. For some it's just harder to maintain this balance than others.)

[MarginOfError]

switch to white chocolate - its caffeine free!

I'm not sure this is a healthy way to get around the alternative. White chocolate is made with a huge amount of powdered sugar...a refined sugar for which there is a growing body of evidence that we should be consuming less of. Then again...when we start debating which kind of chocolate is healthier, we've really kind of lost site health anyway.

[MarginOfError]

NO where in the WoW does it state that we are not to consume illegal drugs. Meth, Cocaine, Heroine, Pot, LSD, etc. Nor does it state that we are not to abuse prescription drugs.

Yet it is implied, and we hearken to that and don't abuse drugs. Or, we SHOULD not abuse drugs.

I think the salient phrase in D&C 89 regarding illicit and prescription drugs is contained in the description about tobacco. They are to be used with judgment and skill (v 8). I would put any substance not strictly prohibited by the Word of Wisdom through our prophet to fall under the category of being used with judgment and skill. I'm with the camp that says we don't prohibit the consumption of caffeine, but each and everyone of us should evaluate what constitutes abuse of the substance.

Pres. Hinckley has pretty much stated that in For The Strength of the Youth booklet. That booklet is not canonized scripture/doctrine. But it is as good as.

You may not want to rely on For The Strength of the Youth for this argument. For starters, it doesn't justify the exclusion of caffeine from our diet, but that we not abuse any drug or chemical. Would caffeine fall under the category of "drug or chemical?" Undoubtedly. But does all consumption fall under the category of abuse? Answering yes to that question is a pretty long stretch.

[Guest Alana]

I had a friend who gave me a really hard time about the coffee/tea thing. "Why Alana? Why????"

Well, a few months later, I figured it out.

The reason we don't drink coffee or tea is because we've been commanded not to. There is no specific thing such as the caffeine or tannic acid or any other reason other than we are commanded not to. When I was finally able to explain that to my friend her argument change from 'there is no reason!' to 'that sounds a lot like blind faith!' Ahhh blind faith. Now there's a phrase I'll gladly take on. Great 'excuse' to bear my testimony. I still hang out with that friend, but only when I'm feeling up to:)

Edited January 3, 2009 by Alana

[Hemidakota]

There was study done mid 20th century in determining why hot drinks were not permitted. It was due to the heat range of the product that cause distress to the stomach lining and 200 plus known toxic chemicals found in both plants. Surprising to today standards, if it was listed for FDA approval, as with alcohol beverages, none of them would receive any approval today. :)

[Iggy]

You may not want to rely on For The Strength of the Youth for this argument. For starters, it doesn't justify the exclusion of caffeine from our diet, but that we not abuse any drug or chemical. Would caffeine fall under the category of "drug or chemical?" Undoubtedly. But does all consumption fall under the category of abuse? Answering yes to that question is a pretty long stretch.

Yes it does fall under the category of drug.

I quote from the article:

This habit involves the abuse of a drug to which most people give little thought, even though it is now the most commonly abused drug on the planet. What was her habit? Excessive cola consumption. The drug? Caffeine.

Quoted from Wikipeadia: Caffeine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Caffeine is a bitter white crystalline xanthine that acts as a psychoactive stimulant drug and a mild diuretic (speeds up urine production)[3] in humans and other animals. Caffeine was discovered by a German chemist, Friedrich Ferdinand Runge, in 1819. He coined the term "kaffein", a chemical compound in coffee, which in English became caffeine.[4] Caffeine is also called guaranine when found in guarana, mateine when found in mate, and theine when found in tea; all of these names are synonyms for the same chemical compound.

Caffeine is found in varying quantities in the beans, leaves, and fruit of some plants, where it acts as a natural pesticide that paralyzes and kills certain insects feeding on the plants. It is most commonly consumed by humans in infusions extracted from the cherries of the coffee plant and the leaves of the tea bush, as well as from various foods and drinks containing products derived from the kola nut. Other sources include yerba mate, guarana berries, and the Yaupon Holly.

In humans, caffeine is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant, having the effect of temporarily warding off drowsiness and restoring alertness. Beverages containing caffeine, such as coffee, tea, soft drinks and energy drinks enjoy great popularity. Caffeine is the world's most widely consumed psychoactive substance, but unlike most other psychoactive substances it is legal and unregulated in nearly all jurisdictions.[where?] <<snip>>

[Hemidakota]

I guess I need to stop eating M&M since it is now considered a drug....dark chocolate has more caffeine than any known hot drinks.

[Truegrits]

I guess I need to stop eating M&M since it is now considered a drug....

I need to stop eating M & M's because they make me fat!!! :lol:

[Hemidakota]

Beside that....:) Then we have Double Dark Chocolate Ice Cream. Now that has more than M&Ms.

My biggest heartache for those in the church, when we begin to question one substance within one group, they need to research what else it is found in other food groups.