wife

[keky96]

Hi, I would like to ask a few questions about the mormon church.

first do you belief that God as a wife.

[AngelonaWing]

YES How else can you explain you Own Mother or Wife on this earth if we didn't have a Heavenly Mother like our Father in Heaven?

We have been created in Heavenly Fathers Image... so my Guess is the MEN have our Heavenly Father's Attributes and the Women have our Heavenly Mothers attributes...............

[keky96]

were can you show me in the king james bible, that we have a heavenly mother ?

[keky96]

also why dont you talk about this in your preaching, when mormon mistionarys come knocking on your door ?

[Maya]

Actually you can ask your questions on learn about MC part of the Boad. This part is for introducing oneself. Welcome to the forum that is made in order to ask and answer questions about LDS Church and mormonisme in a friendly environement.

Just to enlighten a bit. It says we were created in Gods image to a man and to a woman. Children of this world have a mother and a father so it seems obvious thereis both in Heaven too.

We do not speak so much of her as it is too holy to talk about.

[skippy740]

Just think of how God's name and Christ's names have been taken in vain and even turned into vulgar expressions.

Would you want your mother's or wife's name to be treated similarly? Because if it was a widely known aspect of the gospel, you can bet that Her name would be dragged through the mud as well.

[skippy740]

were can you show me in the king james bible, that we have a heavenly mother ?

There is only one place in LDS scripture that talks about a Heavenly Mother - and that's our Hymn book in the hymn "O My Father". One of the versus teaches that we "have a Mother there."

And yes, the hymn book is also considered scripture along with the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.

[abqfriend]

The ultimate question-is where then did God/ Heavenly Father come from?

We say Eternal-but that is a difficult thing to understand.

Why would One God need a wife?

Do the Hebrew scriptures teach that Heavenly Father had a wife?

Do the Jews teach that today-or in the past?

-if so where?

Catholic Theology-which venerates the Blessed Virgin Mary- and considers her the "Mother of God" as we believe she is Jesus's Mother.

Still-we do not place her in the Godhead/Trinity.

So why does God need a wife? Did they have sex?

-Carol

YES How else can you explain you Own Mother or Wife on this earth if we didn't have a Heavenly Mother like our Father in Heaven?

We have been created in Heavenly Fathers Image... so my Guess is the MEN have our Heavenly Father's Attributes and the Women have our Heavenly Mothers attributes...............

[Elgama]

Missionaries will answer any question, and I know I was taught of Heavenly Mother prior to being baptised, but they teach by the spirit and they have to teach what is required for us to return to live with our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother is not a knowledge that is required for that so unless asked or prompted they may not teach about Her

-Charley

[john doe]

Actually, it's not church doctrine. But when you realize that we believe that God is our father, then it stands to reason to accept that there must be a mother. It's implied strongly. And the reason our missionaries don't reach it is because it isn't official doctrine.

[john doe]

There is only one place in LDS scripture that talks about a Heavenly Mother - and that's our Hymn book in the hymn "O My Father". One of the versus teaches that we "have a Mother there."

And yes, the hymn book is also considered scripture along with the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.

Can you show me where you got this? It is my understanding that while hymns may reflect doctrine, it does not mean that they are to be taken as scriptural.

[Elgama]

The ultimate question-is where then did God/ Heavenly Father come from?

We say Eternal-but that is a difficult thing to understand.

Why would One God need a wife?

Do the Hebrew scriptures teach that Heavenly Father had a wife?

Do the Jews teach that today-or in the past?

-if so where?

Actually the Jews at least on one (I think there was another but can't remember details) occasion in the past did teach that Jehovah had a wife - Asherah or Astarte.

Jeremiah cautioned against worshipping her (inline what we teach also we do not pray to her) - I there were times in early Latter Day Saint History when members were asked not to worship Heavenly Mother. And to pray to Heavenly Father

Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

—Jeremiah 7:17–18

... to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem ...

—Jeremiah 44:17

There are mentions of the ancient Hebrews being discouraged from worshipping her from at least the Time of Moses.

I am going to use the CS Lewis idea with your other questions as all I can come with is supposition and guesswork, the Narnia books had a theme running through them that you were only taught your own story that was what was relevant to your salvation. I have a personal view that has come to me but nothing that is taught as church doctrine

Catholic Theology-which venerates the Blessed Virgin Mary- and considers her the "Mother of God" as we believe she is Jesus's Mother.

Still-we do not place her in the Godhead/Trinity.

We don;'t worship Mary on any level she is respected for her calling along the lines of any great Person of God has been.

So why does God need a wife? Did they have sex?

I don't know why God needs a wife - guess would be without male and female a world lacks balance. I don't know if they had sex

-Charley

[Elgama]

Just think of how God's name and Christ's names have been taken in vain and even turned into vulgar expressions.

Would you want your mother's or wife's name to be treated similarly? Because if it was a widely known aspect of the gospel, you can bet that Her name would be dragged through the mud as well.

funny that was a discussion today in Gospel Doctrine when asked how many easily took offence noone raised their hand, asked how many took offence when it was their spouse that was being slighted every hand went up.

-Charley

[skippy740]

Can you show me where you got this? It is my understanding that while hymns may reflect doctrine, it does not mean that they are to be taken as scriptural.

First Presidency Preface to Hymns - LDS Church Music

First Presidency Preface to Hymns

Three months after the Church was organized, the Lord, through the Prophet Joseph Smith, instructed Joseph's wife, Emma, to make a selection of sacred hymns for the Church: "For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the song of the righteous is a prayer unto me, and it shall be answered with a blessing upon their heads" (D&C 25:12).

Now, 150 years after the first hymnbook was published by the Church, we are pleased to present this revision. Many hymns found in our original hymnbook and in subsequent editions are included, as are a number of newly added hymns. All have been selected to meet the varied needs of today's worldwide Church membership.

Music in Our Church Meetings

Inspirational music is an essential part of our church meetings. The hymns invite the Spirit of the Lord, create a feeling of reverence, unify us as members, and provide a way for us to offer praises to the Lord.

Some of the greatest sermons are preached by the singing of hymns. Hymns move us to repentance and good works, build testimony and faith, comfort the weary, console the mourning, and inspire us to endure to the end.

We hope to see an increase of hymn singing in our congregations. We encourage all members, whether musically inclined or not, to join with us in singing the hymns. We hope leaders, teachers, and members who are called on to speak will turn often to the hymnbook to find sermons presented powerfully and beautifully in verse.

Latter-day Saints have a long tradition of choir singing. Every ward and branch in the Church should have a choir that performs regularly. We encourage choirs to use the hymnbook as their basic resource.

Music in Our Homes

Music has boundless powers for moving families toward greater spirituality and devotion to the gospel. Latter-day Saints should fill their homes with the sound of worthy music.

Ours is a hymnbook for the home as well as for the meetinghouse. We hope the hymnbook will take a prominent place among the scriptures and other religious books in our homes. The hymns can bring families a spirit of beauty and peace and can inspire love and unity among family members.

Teach your children to love the hymns. Sing them on the Sabbath, in home evening, during scripture study, at prayer time. Sing as you work, as you play, and as you travel together. Sing hymns as lullabies to build faith and testimony in your young ones.

Music in Our Personal Lives

In addition to blessing us as Church and family members, the hymns can greatly benefit us as individuals. Hymns can lift our spirits, give us courage, and move us to righteous action. They can fill our souls with heavenly thoughts and bring us a spirit of peace.

Hymns can also help us withstand the temptations of the adversary. We encourage you to memorize your favorite hymns and study the scriptures that relate to them. Then, if unworthy thoughts enter your mind, sing a hymn to yourself, crowding out the evil with the good.

Brothers and sisters, let us use the hymns to invite the Spirit of the Lord into our congregations, our homes, and our personal lives. Let us memorize and ponder them, recite and sing them, and partake of their spiritual nourishment. Know that the song of the righteous is a prayer unto our Father in Heaven, "and it shall be answered with a blessing upon [your] heads."

The First Presidency

While I can't find anything specific, I've always been taught that the hymn book is an "unofficial" 5th to the Standard Works.

[john doe]

I'll give an 'A' for effort, but I still don't buy the concept. Hymns do not declare doctrine, although they may reflect doctrine.

[skippy740]

I'll give an 'A' for effort, but I still don't buy the concept. Hymns do not declare doctrine, although they may reflect doctrine.

Let me put it a different way:

If it wasn't doctrinal, don't you think they would've removed it?

[NeuroTypical]

were can you show me in the king james bible, that we have a heavenly mother ?

Nowhere. And nowhere in the BoM either. The sum total of LDS doctrine is that we believe we have a Mother in Heaven, because it makes sense to believe we do.

also why dont you talk about this in your preaching, when mormon mistionarys come knocking on your door ?

We do talk about this. Investigators to our church are invited to come to a Sunday School class called Gospel Principles. Chapter 2 "Our Heavenly Family" states "Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents..." Chapter 5 "The Creation" states "...we lived as spirit children with our heavenly parents...", and "...the first man, Adam, and the first woman, Eve, were formed and given bodies that resembled those of our heavenly parents"

Hope this helps.

LM

[abqfriend]

Making Sense and Doctrine are two different things-at least in the Catholic Church.

-I would guess in the LDS Church too.

-Carol

Nowhere. And nowhere in the BoM either. The sum total of LDS doctrine is that we believe we have a Mother in Heaven, because it makes sense to believe we do.

LM

[Oligith1]

Let me put it a different way:

If it wasn't doctrinal, don't you think they would've removed it?

If not remove it, at least change it as they did the Hymn "I am a Child of God" where the hymn was changed from "teach me all that I must know" to "teach me all that I must do" as it was added to the hymnal.

[Elphaba]

"I am a Child of God" where the hymn was changed from "teach me all that I must know" to "teach me all that I must do" as it was added to the hymnal.

What was the reason for changing it?

Elphaba

[AnthonyB]

From a TC (Trad Christian) veiw point.

The Bible at times gives God characteristics that are feminine and both men and women are created in the image of God. It would not be wholly incorrect to see God as our mother. (She that caused us to be and the aspect of God that the female is the image of.)

However we have been told to speak of Father and Son. One could see this as a cultural hangover from the times the bible is written in. However I think it is interwoven with the imagery of the church as the bride of Christ. We (the body of Christ) are the female (the beloved) to Jesus as the male. (the lover.) It is God who persued us, it is Jesus that sacrified in love for us. It is we who are the objects of his affection and sacrificial love.

(Actually the book "The Shack" has a wonderful analogy about men and women. Woman was initially broght forth from man and after that all men are then brought forth from women. Completing a loop of mutual dependency.)

Too overtly seeing God as feminine may disrupt the image of the relationship with God.

Personally I see this as a strength of TC over the way some LDS think. I see women as fully in the image of the one almighty God, as much as men are. LDS thinking IMHO can leave the feeling that only men are in the image of the ultimate God of our universe. Women are made in the image possible of some other person, who we know almost nothing of and isn't even named in the Godhead. (Of course it is possible to see this as part of reason why women are so mysterious!)

However I would like to ask some questions to the LDS folk about the assumptions made in the LDS posts above...

To speak of heavenly parents, does it necessarily mean Father and Mother. Surely it may just be refering to the multiple persons of the Godhead who were involved in our creation. The bible has both Father God and Jesus involved in creating us, in LDS thinking it was the Father that played a part in out spirit selves and Jesus who brought about the physical world we are physically born into. Both played a part in bringing us into what we are, so it would not be unreasonable (in LDS terms) to see them as our parents.

In the hymn that refers to God our Mother, could the writer have just been refering to the feminine side of the Godhead from which women are created, rather than a seperate person of whom we know nothing? I perceive most LDS believe in a seperate person of Mother God but would it be within LDS orthodoxy to have the other veiw (or acceptable to LDS)?

[Elphaba]

Just think of how God's name and Christ's names have been taken in vain and even turned into vulgar expressions.

Would you want your mother's or wife's name to be treated similarly? Because if it was a widely known aspect of the gospel, you can bet that Her name would be dragged through the mud as well.

This never made any sense to me, even when I was young.

I don't know if she would be considered a goddess, or not--perhaps someone can let me know. But surely she wouldn't be offended by what mere mortals say.

I understand taking the Lord's name in vain breaks a commandment, but again, I don't think it's because He would be offended.

Elphaba

[skippy740]

This never made any sense to me, even when I was young.

I don't know if she would be considered a goddess, or not--perhaps someone can let me know. But surely she wouldn't be offended by what mere mortals say.

I understand taking the Lord's name in vain breaks a commandment, but again, I don't think it's because He would be offended.

Elphaba

If one of your children looked you straight in the eye and intensely said "I HATE YOU!" - how would you feel?

How should your husband feel about his wife being treated in such a way by his children?

Shouldn't a loving husband protect his wife against such treatment from anybody - let alone his own children?

If we were ants on a log, or flies or plants, then I don't think Mother would care as we would be mere insects/plants/mortals. But we're human beings and we're children of a Heavenly Father (and Mother). Mom's feelings are much more tender than Father's.

"Honor thy father and mother - that thy days may be long in the land."

"Your mother and I brought you in this world. We can take you OUT!" (Bill Cosby)

Edited November 16, 2008 by skippy740

[skippy740]

What was the reason for changing it?

Elphaba

Because KNOWING and DOING are two completely different things.

[Kyra]

What was the reason for changing it?

Elphaba

If I remember correctly, they changed it because we can't just know something, we have to put it into actions. So changing the words went along better with church doctrine.

This never made any sense to me, even when I was young.

I don't know if she would be considered a goddess, or not--perhaps someone can let me know. But surely she wouldn't be offended by what mere mortals say.

I understand taking the Lord's name in vain breaks a commandment, but again, I don't think it's because He would be offended.

Elphaba

I've always thought of it as a matter of respect, and also a good example for how husbands should treat their wives. He loves her and respects her so much that He won't allow her name to be used in vulgar ways.

And I believe that He is offended when His name is taken in vain. I know that if someone were to use my name as a swear word it would offend me. But that's just my opinion. :)