Planned Parenthood and Christianity ?????

[Guest ceeboo]

I have read some disturbing things on this forum ( to me ) regarding the " support " and " good " that this organization does.

I must say, I have no idea how a follower of Christ can be supportive of such an organization

A few facts from the " United States Conference of Catholic Bishops " ( If anyone desires to read it in full you can google it at your leisure .)

Planned Parenthood is the single largest abortion provider in the United States.

In 2005 Planned Parenthood performed 264,943 abortions ( a new U S record ) and 10,000 more than they performed in 2004. Planned Parenthood is responsible for 1 out of every 5 in the US.

While Planned Parenthood claims to serve womans choices, they reported to provide prenatal care to just 12,548 woman in 2005, and infertility services to only 248 women.

They reported no adoption referrals.

IS IT ABOUT MONEY ????? ( YOU BET YOUR BOTTOM IT IS) ( ITS BIG BUSINESS )

Planned Parenthood took in 902.8 MILLION dollars in the fiscal year ending june 2006 ( 55.8 MILLION over expenses!!!) ( Imagine that, Planned Parenthood MADE almost 56 MILLION DOLLARS PERFORMING ABORTIONS IN ONE YEAR!!!!!!). Significant revenues are from charging $ 350- 650 per abortion. Over a third of its income, 305.3 Million, was from taxpayers' dollars - 12 percent more than last year, ANOTHER NEW RECORD!!

Planned Parenthood claims it wants to reduce abortions, yet advocates unrestricted access to abortion and lobbies against all modest and widely supported laws that reduce abortions. ( such as informed consent, 24 hour waiting period after councel, etc )

Sorry to anyone I may have offended but Ceeboo CAN NOT see how ANY CHRISTIAN CAN BE ON THE SIDE OF, OR SUPPORT IN ANY WAY THIS DISGUSTING IMMORAL ORGANIZATION!!!! :eek::eek:

over a quarter of a million abortions in one year in our good old USofA ( disgusting !!!!)

God bless,

Carl

Edited November 18, 2008 by ceeboo

[BenRaines]

I agree with you on that one Ceeboo. Of course I am a man so I am not allowed an opinion based on Political Correctness, but if I was allowed I would agree with you.

Ben Raines

[pam]

As I know I am one that this is directed at. Let me remind you what I said. While I am against the abortion issues that this organization so strongly supports..I did find SOME good in it. And to also let you know. Because of the abortion issues I no longer support United Way. I give my money to organizations I agree with.

It was a lame attempt on my part to show that this organization does provide some good services to those that need it aside from the abortion issues.

It's just too bad most of their revenue does come from abortion. I suppose that's how they support their other programs which is sad.

[bytor2112]

Why not just offer the other services then? This organization is evil......don't be decieved. They do not serve the good of humanity and I dare say I would not want to know that I derived my income from this place. Pure evil. In the eternal scheme...do they do good?

[pam]

Okay that I can come to a perfect agreement on.

[pam]

And I'm not so stuck in my opinions that I can't be swayed. I do see Ceeboo and your point in the organization. Again when I made the tour I'm sure they showed their best points. lol

[PeterVenkman]

First, I want to say that I am also a strong proponent of unrestricted abortion rights. By the transitive property of your post I will take you to mean that I am also evil and disgusting, just like Planned Parenthood.

(1) See my statistics on the other thread where this was originally being discussed. Abortion only accounts for 3% of Planned Parenthood's services and I don't think you should condemn a medical orgnanization that helps women, children and poor people on the basis of 3% of its activities. Especially since those activities are constitutionally protected.

(2) This is not really "disgusting" and "evil" to me. There are a number of circumstances that justify abortions, and people should be able to make that decision with their bodies. There is a woman carrying the baby too, and her life must be taken into account. There was a very good episode of Boston Legal last week which featured an abortion case for a 15 year old girl. It presented both sides very well and illustrated that it can be emotional no matter how you fall. Ultimately, no one in their right mind wants to kill fetuses. Sometimes it has to happen, and its a really good thing that the freedom exists when the alternative would be much worse. I think the word "pro-life" is a tactic to shift psychology on this subject. We are all pro-life. We all like life (unless you are a serial killer or something). This is why I refer to the "pro-life" position as the "forced pregnancy" movement.

(3) This last argument is truly insensitive, I'll admit, but there is something of merit to it. It seems that there is some level of criticism against abortion and against homosexual marriage on the basis that it does not allow procreation. More kids good, less kids bad. The whole replenish the earth thing...but isn't there something to be said for overpopulation? I mean, the basic element of political and economic theory is that resources are finite, and that there are simply not enough resources to go around. In an age where there is more and more global warming, ess and less clean water, more desertification, pollution and 7+ billion people, do we really need more kids? I mean, even with legal abortion and a growing homosexual community, we are still having way too many kids way too fast for the Earth to handle.

[KristofferUmfrey]

First, I want to say that I am also a strong proponent of unrestricted abortion rights. By the transitive property of your post I will take you to mean that I am also evil and disgusting, just like Planned Parenthood.

(1) See my statistics on the other thread where this was originally being discussed. Abortion only accounts for 3% of Planned Parenthood's services and I don't think you should condemn a medical orgnanization that helps women, children and poor people on the basis of 3% of its activities. Especially since those activities are constitutionally protected.

(2) This is not really "disgusting" and "evil" to me. There are a number of circumstances that justify abortions, and people should be able to make that decision with their bodies. There is a woman carrying the baby too, and her life must be taken into account. There was a very good episode of Boston Legal last week which featured an abortion case for a 15 year old girl. It presented both sides very well and illustrated that it can be emotional no matter how you fall. Ultimately, no one in their right mind wants to kill fetuses. Sometimes it has to happen, and its a really good thing that the freedom exists when the alternative would be much worse. I think the word "pro-life" is a tactic to shift psychology on this subject. We are all pro-life. We all like life (unless you are a serial killer or something). This is why I refer to the "pro-life" position as the "forced pregnancy" movement.

(3) This last argument is truly insensitive, I'll admit, but there is something of merit to it. It seems that there is some level of criticism against abortion and against homosexual marriage on the basis that it does not allow procreation. More kids good, less kids bad. The whole replenish the earth thing...but isn't there something to be said for overpopulation? I mean, the basic element of political and economic theory is that resources are finite, and that there are simply not enough resources to go around. In an age where there is more and more global warming, ess and less clean water, more desertification, pollution and 7+ billion people, do we really need more kids? I mean, even with legal abortion and a growing homosexual community, we are still having way too many kids way too fast for the Earth to handle.

"First, I want to say that I am also a strong proponent of unrestricted abortion rights."

Shocker!

[KristofferUmfrey]

Unrestricted, eh?

Like inducing the labor of an 8 1/2 month old baby, birthing it backwards, stabbing it it the back of the head and sucking it's brains out?

That kind of unrestricted?

Sicko.

[PeterVenkman]

Could be worse.

[KristofferUmfrey]

"In the last days the love of men will wax cold"

I think we have a sterling example of that.

[PeterVenkman]

Now that's just not fair man. I never attacked you for your positions or said your heart was cold. I understand that you feel strongly about this, as do I, but you don't need to act like that.

The process may sound disturbing and gross when you phrase it the way that you did, but all sorts of medical procedures could be linguistically dramatized to sound terrible. I'm pretty sure electro shock therapy could be characterized pretty horribly too, or a hysterectomy. When I said "it could be worse" I was referring to the argument that abortion is inevitable. If you make it illegal, people will get abortions from shady people who will not perform them safely or cleanly. I would take the procedure you described over a more rudimentary tool or simply abandoning the newborn. It could be worse.

My points still stand. There are times when it is necessary.

[Guest ceeboo]

First, I want to say that I am also a strong proponent of unrestricted abortion rights. By the transitive property of your post I will take you to mean that I am also evil and disgusting, just like Planned Parenthood.

In response to this part of your post, No , I do not mean you are evil and disgusting. I certainly will agree to strongly disagree with you in large measure, but will leave it at that.

As to the rest of your post, I am afraid I have little to offer you

God bless,

Carl

[KristofferUmfrey]

Now that's just not fair man. I never attacked you for your positions or said your heart was cold. I understand that you feel strongly about this, as do I, but you don't need to act like that.

The process may sound disturbing and gross when you phrase it the way that you did, but all sorts of medical procedures could be linguistically dramatized to sound terrible. I'm pretty sure electro shock therapy could be characterized pretty horribly too, or a hysterectomy. When I said "it could be worse" I was referring to the argument that abortion is inevitable. If you make it illegal, people will get abortions from shady people who will not perform them safely or cleanly. I would take the procedure you described over a more rudimentary tool or simply abandoning the newborn. It could be worse.

My points still stand. There are times when it is necessary.

Unrestricted doesn't infer, "When necessary.", it infers, "Whenever the heck (for all you sensitive folks out there) she feels like it."

And comparing taking a human life in such a brutal way to operating on a body part, is truly disturbing.

[bytor2112]

Peter....you don't sound LDS. Your posts seem very far left...and way out of touch with the teachings of the church. Are you really a member of the church....just curious?

[pam]

Could be worse.

And you seriously believe that? That is just sick.

[bytor2112]

The following is a list of useful abortion statistics as well as some facts on abortifacients. All abortion numbers are derived from pro-abortion sources courtesy of The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives.

Click here for the Guttmacher Institute's latest fact sheet on abortion.

WORLDWIDE

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million

Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000

Where abortions occur:

83% of all abortions are obtained in developing countries and 17% occur in developed countries.

© Copyright 1996-2008, The Alan Guttmacher Institute. (Guttmacher Institute: Home Page)

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)

Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who's having abortions (age)?

52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.

Who's having abortions (race)?

While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.

Who's having abortions (marital status)?

64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.

Who's having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?

Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

Why women have abortions

1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

At what gestational ages are abortions performed:

52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

Likelihood of abortion:

An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.

Abortion coverage:

48% of all abortion facilities provide services after the 12th week of pregnancy. 9 in 10 managed care plans routinely cover abortion or provide limited coverage. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds, virtually all of which are state funds. 16 states (CA, CT, HI, ED, IL, MA , MD, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) pay for abortions for some poor women

[PeterVenkman]

You are right, "unrestricted" does mean whenever she feels like it. That is certainly what it infers. I just said a few posts ago that no one wants to kill fetuses. We all like life. The reason I am for abortion rights is because I have an optimistic view of human society. I do not believe that the world is one of sin and degradation and that we must live above it, I think the world has a lot of good to offer and I believe people generally want to do what is best. From this perspective, it is hard for me to believe that enough people will "abuse" the right to an abortion to justify restricting its availability. The woman carrying the child has a life too, and her concerns must be taken into account. I appreciate and accept your apology for calling me a sterling example of a loveless man.

Please explain to me why it is truly disturbing to compare an abortion (medical procedure) with a hysterectomy (medical procedure)?

[PeterVenkman]

Why does everyone keep asking me this?

Yes, I am a member of the church. I was born and raised in the church. I graduated from seminary, I'm an Eagle Scout, and my family has a very large food storage. In fact, my mother helped design a very popular year-based food storage program for the church. I've also baptized people to the church, although I have never been on a mission (have however been on splits). This is all true.

Are you saying that it is impossible for one to be very far left on the political spectrum and still identify as a mormon?

[KristofferUmfrey]

Notice he continues to refer to the babies as "fetuses", this way he can dehumanize them in his mind and silence his conscience for supporting such a barbaric practice.

[KristofferUmfrey]

You are right, "unrestricted" does mean whenever she feels like it. That is certainly what it infers. I just said a few posts ago that no one wants to kill fetuses. We all like life. The reason I am for abortion rights is because I have an optimistic view of human society. I do not believe that the world is one of sin and degradation and that we must live above it, I think the world has a lot of good to offer and I believe people generally want to do what is best. From this perspective, it is hard for me to believe that enough people will "abuse" the right to an abortion to justify restricting its availability. The woman carrying the child has a life too, and her concerns must be taken into account. I appreciate and accept your apology for calling me a sterling example of a loveless man.

Please explain to me why it is truly disturbing to compare an abortion (medical procedure) with a hysterectomy (medical procedure)?

Because one is murdering a baby. If you can't tell the difference you ARE truly lost.

[PeterVenkman]

I'm still here Kristoffer, you can speak directly to me, you don't have to use the dismissive.

Right, I use the term "fetuses" because I don't believe they are babies. It is a subjective determination when life begins. Some think life begins at contraception, some think life begins at birth, some think life begins when the fetus is viable. Personally, I believe life begins when a baby breathes oxygen and is no longer getting nourishment by breathing liquid.

[PeterVenkman]

Dude, please stop insulting me. I didn't say you were lost or loveless or evil or disgusting. If you want to discuss abortion rights, then lets do it without getting personal about it.

[Guest ceeboo]

although I have never been on a mission

Ceeboo will attempt to lighten up this thread a bit ( I can cuz I am the OP :))

May I offer my Catholic perspective and STRONGLY suggest you DON'T EVER go on a mission ???? :lol:

Sorry, its just ceeboo being ceeboo :)

Peace,

Carl

[bytor2112]

Why does everyone keep asking me this?

Yes, I am a member of the church. I was born and raised in the church. I graduated from seminary, I'm an Eagle Scout, and my family has a very large food storage. In fact, my mother helped design a very popular year-based food storage program for the church. I've also baptized people to the church, although I have never been on a mission (have however been on splits). This is all true.

Are you saying that it is impossible for one to be very far left on the political spectrum and still identify as a mormon?

I think you can attend church, have food storage, be an Eagle Scout, graduate from Seminary......but have your heart in the wrong place.....as you seem to...IMHO. As for lefty politics...everyone knows that is purely from the devil