Planned Parenthood and Christianity ?????

[RachelleDrew]

How many times are we going to have the same argument, with the same lack of resolution before we realize that NO ONE'S mind is going to be changed.

I seriously wish we could just stop having posts about abortion, all it leads to is people being nasty to one another.

[Misshalfway]

How many times are we going to have the same argument, with the same lack of resolution before we realize that NO ONE'S mind is going to be changed.

I seriously wish we could just stop having posts about abortion, all it leads to is people being nasty to one another.

My point exactly. Well.....one of them.

[Misshalfway]

That's exactly right.....the church has a 93 year history with the Boy SCouts and if the "agenda" would have made it's way into the program....the church would have went strictly to Duty to God. Too bad that adults can't leave children alone, ya know. If we want to muck up the world as adults, is it really necessary to ruin things for kids......just to try and prove a point?

I didn't mean to bring up the scouts to side track the main point of this thread.... which is solely about Planned Parenthood and its moral merits as an organization.

I will say that, although I have had my personal issues with the churches scouting program, I think for the most part our youth have had good and edifying experience all the way around whether or not the church has chosen to affiliate with a private organization or not.

[bytor2112]

Jane Rowe changed her mind....so there is always hope...:)

[Misshalfway]

Jane Rowe changed her mind....so there is always hope...:)

Is that true???? I'm intrigued!

[Misshalfway]

I would love to see Rowe v Wade overturned. I am sad though as I project the political and social anger such an action would incite.

Beyond that, I don't know what to make of organizations such as Planned Parenthood. I suppose at some level they provide a valuable service to some.

I think we can and should do better though. I suppose all we really can do is invite and persuade those amongst us to take care of unwanted pregnancy in better ways. It would be nice if our society could agree on at least this view. I am saddened that we cannot and that we need to have arguments about when life begins to justify such practices.

I suppose I find myself frustrated with those who promote and give contraception to children without the permission of parents. I suppose on the other hand that it is better than nothing. Perhaps the parents aren't being supported or educated. Perhaps the parents aren't involved enough with their children. It just feels like our moral foundations in the world are slipping every increasingly away from where they should be. It reminds me of the scriptures when they use the phrase "past feeling".

You know.....maybe that is my final analysis of planned parenthood. It is better than nothing. But a far cry from the standard that should be set.

I find myself increasingly grateful to my parents....who taught me the law of chastity through their words and the actions of their lives. There is safety and simplicity in truth. And this issue is one of those that shines the light on how valuable these teachings really are.

[Guest ceeboo]

Condemning practice.... not people.

Sorry in advance ( This thread has taken it's toll on ceeboo, I am exhausted !!)

As a Christain, I have NO CHOICE but to be condemning of the parcatice, the people who make their living from, or the people who support such an act!!!! PERIOD!!!

This " practice " and ALL THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT OR MAKE THEIR LIVING OFF IT NEED TO BE CONDEMNED WITHOUT HESITATION. It, at times, can be very difficult as well as unpopular to be a Christian who walks the walk, but I suggest there needs to be alot more of us that start walking!!!!!!!

At any rate, ceeboo continues his fight and is indeed tired.

Peace,

Carl

[Misshalfway]

Sorry in advance ( This thread has taken it's toll on ceeboo, I am exhausted !!)

As a Christain, I have NO CHOICE but to be condemning of the parcatice, the people who make their living from, or the people who support such an act!!!! PERIOD!!!

This " practice " and ALL THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT OR MAKE THEIR LIVING OFF IT NEED TO BE CONDEMNED WITHOUT HESITATION. It, at times, can be very difficult as well as unpopular to be a Christian who walks the walk, but I suggest there needs to be alot more of us that start walking!!!!!!!

At any rate, ceeboo continues his fight and is indeed tired.

Peace,

Carl

I am sorry I was not more compassionate about your exhaustion. I know that feeling all too well. And I am joining this conversation late, I am afraid........

I agree completely with this above statement. I think I understand better what you were trying to say. Please know you aren't alone in the fight on this forum.

Which brings me too my next question......and I will ask it while you find a pillow and a lazy boy recliner...... What can we do to better walk the walk as folks who uphold the value of life beyond how we vote and how we speak? It sounds like this what you are really looking for.....is more like minded people to stand up for the pro life position.

[bytor2112]

Is that true???? I'm intrigued!

Yes...it is Norma McCorvey Urges Pro-Life Vote to Reshape Supreme Court on Abortion

[OtterPop]

I'm just curious -- has anyone here besides me ever been to Planned Parenthood?

Certainly, if you don't want to give money to Planned Parenthood, don't. If you don't want your tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood, by all means write to your representatives, try to generate support for your position, and participate in the democratic process to whatever extent you want.

Criticize Margaret Sanger all you want. She said some very ugly things and was definitely in favor of social engineering through abortion, sterilization, etc. If you read Planned Parenthood's website, they acknowledge and reject these ideas. (Just as Mormons acknowledge and reject some earlier leaders' statements on race.)

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in this country. But have you ever stopped to consider that they also work very hard to prevent unplanned pregnancies? That they believe that preventing unwanted pregnancies is a better solution than aborting them?

I've been to Planned Parenthood. I've had pap smears there, I've purchased birth control there, I've been treated for minor infections there -- all at affordable prices when I didn't have health insurance. A few years ago, I received a mailer from them informing me that they had started offering services for women beyond those connected with reproductive health. Services like basic physical exams, throat cultures, etc.

I work for a large company that will likely have layoffs in the next few weeks. I need a pap smear in January because my last one in August showed some abnormal cells that bear watching. You can bet that if I don't have health insurance in January, I will be very grateful that Planned Parenthood exists.

I think a good Christian can be fully capable of seeing that Planned Parenthood does plenty of good.

I'm curious, too, about the idea that the LDS Church is "against" Planned Parenthood. I've never heard that, and I searched their website and found no statement about it. The LDS Church doesn't typically come out against specific organizations. Can someone provide documentation about this stance? I'd appreciate it.

[Wingnut]

I'm just curious -- has anyone here besides me ever been to Planned Parenthood?

Certainly, if you don't want to give money to Planned Parenthood, don't. If you don't want your tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood, by all means write to your representatives, try to generate support for your position, and participate in the democratic process to whatever extent you want.

Criticize Margaret Sanger all you want. She said some very ugly things and was definitely in favor of social engineering through abortion, sterilization, etc. If you read Planned Parenthood's website, they acknowledge and reject these ideas. (Just as Mormons acknowledge and reject some earlier leaders' statements on race.)

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in this country. But have you ever stopped to consider that they also work very hard to prevent unplanned pregnancies? That they believe that preventing unwanted pregnancies is a better solution than aborting them?

I've been to Planned Parenthood. I've had pap smears there, I've purchased birth control there, I've been treated for minor infections there -- all at affordable prices when I didn't have health insurance. A few years ago, I received a mailer from them informing me that they had started offering services for women beyond those connected with reproductive health. Services like basic physical exams, throat cultures, etc.

I work for a large company that will likely have layoffs in the next few weeks. I need a pap smear in January because my last one in August showed some abnormal cells that bear watching. You can bet that if I don't have health insurance in January, I will be very grateful that Planned Parenthood exists.

I think a good Christian can be fully capable of seeing that Planned Parenthood does plenty of good.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I think sometimes it can be hard to see the forest through the trees.

I'm curious, too, about the idea that the LDS Church is "against" Planned Parenthood. I've never heard that, and I searched their website and found no statement about it. The LDS Church doesn't typically come out against specific organizations. Can someone provide documentation about this stance? I'd appreciate it.

I also asked for a source on this statement earlier, but wasn't provided with one.

[Wingnut]

Is that true???? I'm intrigued!

[Guest ceeboo]

You can bet that if I don't have health insurance in January, I will be very grateful that Planned Parenthood exists.

I think a good Christian can be fully capable of seeing that Planned Parenthood does plenty of good.

:eek::eek:

Sorry again to all, this will be ceeboo's last post on this thread for a while ( I'm pooped!!)

God bless,

Carl

[Misshalfway]

I'm curious, too, about the idea that the LDS Church is "against" Planned Parenthood. I've never heard that, and I searched their website and found no statement about it. The LDS Church doesn't typically come out against specific organizations. Can someone provide documentation about this stance? I'd appreciate it.

It was me that made the statement and I think perhaps I used the wrong wording. I said the church was "against" planned parenthood. I perhaps should have stated that the church "does not support" or "could not support" planned parenthood. I should have been more careful about my word choice.

I know of no official statement. I only know what my local authorities have explained to me. I was told that the church could not support planned parenthood because of the abortion issue and other issues as well. That is all. This is my belief. But I trust that it is true based upon my knowledge of the churches position and that I trust those who are my leaders.

[MarginOfError]

I'm just curious -- has anyone here besides me ever been to Planned Parenthood?

Certainly, if you don't want to give money to Planned Parenthood, don't. If you don't want your tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood, by all means write to your representatives, try to generate support for your position, and participate in the democratic process to whatever extent you want.

Criticize Margaret Sanger all you want. She said some very ugly things and was definitely in favor of social engineering through abortion, sterilization, etc. If you read Planned Parenthood's website, they acknowledge and reject these ideas. (Just as Mormons acknowledge and reject some earlier leaders' statements on race.)

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in this country. But have you ever stopped to consider that they also work very hard to prevent unplanned pregnancies? That they believe that preventing unwanted pregnancies is a better solution than aborting them?

I've been to Planned Parenthood. I've had pap smears there, I've purchased birth control there, I've been treated for minor infections there -- all at affordable prices when I didn't have health insurance. A few years ago, I received a mailer from them informing me that they had started offering services for women beyond those connected with reproductive health. Services like basic physical exams, throat cultures, etc.

I work for a large company that will likely have layoffs in the next few weeks. I need a pap smear in January because my last one in August showed some abnormal cells that bear watching. You can bet that if I don't have health insurance in January, I will be very grateful that Planned Parenthood exists.

I think a good Christian can be fully capable of seeing that Planned Parenthood does plenty of good.

I'm curious, too, about the idea that the LDS Church is "against" Planned Parenthood. I've never heard that, and I searched their website and found no statement about it. The LDS Church doesn't typically come out against specific organizations. Can someone provide documentation about this stance? I'd appreciate it.

Is anyone else thinking about wheat and tares when they read this?

[Misshalfway]

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in this country. But have you ever stopped to consider that they also work very hard to prevent unplanned pregnancies? That they believe that preventing unwanted pregnancies is a better solution than aborting them?

How about letting people deal with the consequences of their choices rather than providing an easy way out for them?

I am pro choice. But only before conception.

If planned parenthood were ONLY a clinic where women could obtain low cost health services without providing abortions then I think I could have more support for them. Don't you think that at some point being "sort of good" simply isn't good enough? Especially in a world where wrong is made to look right?

Edited November 19, 2008 by Misshalfway
added more thoughts.....

[Kyra]

Is anyone else thinking about wheat and tares when they read this?

It's what I've thought about through this whole thread. :)

[Wingnut]

How about letting people deal with the consequences of their choices rather than providing an easy way out for them?

I am pro choice. But only before conception.

If planned parenthood were ONLY a clinic where women could obtain low cost health services without providing abortions then I think I could have more support for them. Don't you think that at some point being "sort of good" simply isn't good enough? Especially in a world where wrong is made to look right?

I think that's what Otterpop was saying. Not only does PP offer abortions, but they also offer plenty of birth control options to help prevent the unplanned pregnancies to begin with. The offer free condoms. They offer free or very low-priced birth control where it is otherwise unaffordable.

Many people might take this information and say that it promotes promiscuity and extra-marital (specifically teen) sex in and of itself, but that is simply not true. It promotes safe sex that could otherwise result in STDs and/or unwanted pregnancy.

[Misshalfway]

I think that's what Otterpop was saying. Not only does PP offer abortions, but they also offer plenty of birth control options to help prevent the unplanned pregnancies to begin with. The offer free condoms. They offer free or very low-priced birth control where it is otherwise unaffordable.

Many people might take this information and say that it promotes promiscuity and extra-marital (specifically teen) sex in and of itself, but that is simply not true. It promotes safe sex that could otherwise result in STDs and/or unwanted pregnancy.

I see what you are saying. But Otterpop's argument is like supporting a company that dumps toxic waste in the city drinking water because they make good products. I mean some things are unexceptable. Don't we inadvertantly support this incredible number of abortions and the idea that abortion is an acceptable practice when we support the organization with our money?

Safe sex is better than unsafe sex. Education is better than ignorance. But I think the question on the table is why support groups who support abortion when abortion is something we should be fighting against. I mean planned parenthood isn't the only group who is trying to promote safe sex. And I am not sure the church supports safe sex. I think the church supports a higher law and won't condone anything less.

I think we can do a lot better than offering an abortion. Instead of shuffling a pregnant woman to a doctor.....why not give them to an adoption counselor? Why not try making abortion a last resort ? I have heard that some clinics require a waiting period. I suppose that is something......

I am not going to go stage a protest outside of planned parenthood anytime soon and I don't deny that they do perform some measure of service to society, but I won't be patronizing them either because higher principles are at stake.

[OtterPop]

Is anyone else thinking about wheat and tares when they read this?

What a loving comment and so helpful in furthering this discussion. Anyone else now thinking of motes and beams?

I assure you, in your belief system I'm definitely a tare, and I don't pretend to be anything else.

[MarginOfError]

What a loving comment and so helpful in furthering this discussion. Anyone else now thinking of motes and beams?

I assure you, in your belief system I'm definitely a tare, and I don't pretend to be anything else.

I'm so terribly sorry if I made you feel like a tare. That was certainly not my intent. What I apparently very poorly articulated was that perhaps Planned Parenthood itself can be seen as a wheat and tares situation.

I promise you, I have nothing against what you said nor against the choices you made. Please forgive me for not being clear about that.

[OtterPop]

MoE, I did misinterpret your comment, thinking you were referring to people rather than organizations. I apologize. (And, for the record, I'm actually quite fine with being a tare.:))

It's interesting to me, as I have quite often seen PP maligned in online discussions about abortion, how so many insist on portraying PP as evil. (This is the first thread I've seen on it here, but I've seen it on other sites in the past.)

People seem very willing to focus solely on the fact that PP provides abortions, even when it is pointed out that providing abortions is not the majority of what they do. Anyone who doesn't want to support PP shouldn't do so, either in giving money or in using their services. But to say, categorically, that the organization is inherently evil and that no Christian should use their services is absurd. (I am aware that you did not say this; I'm talking about the premise of this thread.)

Bytor posed the question above about whether PP contributes any good in an eternal sense.

So I suggest the following situation (not just to MoE): Suppose I were a faithful and believing member of the LDS church. Suppose that PP is the only place I knew to get gynecological care I could afford when I was uninsured. Suppose I believed (as I did, when I was a beliving Mormon) that PP is about women's reproductive health, not just providing abortions. Suppose I'd had severe endometriosis, which can cause infertility. Suppose that I receive treatment at PP that enabled me to remain fertile so that I could have a baby when I got married years later.

Would it have been a sin for me to seek gynecological care from PP? Would Jesus care that that's where I had been treated?

Edited November 19, 2008 by OtterPop

[Guest SisterofJared]

Next time you get a taco, open it up and see if theres a cockaroach in there. If you see one, no worries, go ahead and eat it. After all, it's just one cockaroach.

Accepting, supporting, affliating, utilizing Planned Parenthood makes about as much sense as eating that taco that has only one cockaroach.

We need to uphold that which is good, and utterly and totally reject that which is vile. Even using the terms of black and white vs shades of grey is a tactic used by satan to trivialize the evil and to try and make those who uphold good seem like paranoid zealots.

The idea that Planned Parenthood does much good reminds me of how satan teaches... the philosophies of man, mingled with scripture.

OtterPop, would Jesus care where you had been treated? He probably would shake his head sadly and continue to love you. Don't believe that every end justifies the means. Even Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple.

Sister of Jared

[Kyra]

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Nobody and nothing is perfect, but we should still be seeking after things that fit into the above description. It seems like Planned Parenthood doesn't fit the description. You can't say that the little bit of bad they do is okay because they do so much good. I think that they should be commended for all the good that they do, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they do something so evil. I could never support that.

[MarginOfError]

Next time you get a taco, open it up and see if theres a cockaroach in there. If you see one, no worries, go ahead and eat it. After all, it's just one cockaroach.

Accepting, supporting, affliating, utilizing Planned Parenthood makes about as much sense as eating that taco that has only one cockaroach.

We need to uphold that which is good, and utterly and totally reject that which is vile. Even using the terms of black and white vs shades of grey is a tactic used by satan to trivialize the evil and to try and make those who uphold good seem like paranoid zealots.

The idea that Planned Parenthood does much good reminds me of how satan teaches... the philosophies of man, mingled with scripture.

OtterPop, would Jesus care where you had been treated? He probably would shake his head sadly and continue to love you. Don't believe that every end justifies the means. Even Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple.

Sister of Jared

I imagine he would probably ask if there was another alternative. By the way, what are the alternatives? Where can a woman go to get basic and necessary checkups at an affordable price for those with low income and no insurance? If you're want to demonize an entire organization for 3% of its services, go right ahead. If you're going to demonize an individual for using the noble and respectable services of the organization when there is no other alternative, perhaps you should take a lesson in compassion and then work on establishing an alternative organization that will provide the noble services without the wicked ones.

When Christ chased the money changers out of the temple, that was all he did. He didn't burn down the temple entirely.

Furthermore, under your logic, the Southern Baptist Convention is a purely evil organization, because they teach against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The one piece of badness, the one cockroach, negates every good thing the SBC does. Sorry, Sister, the world is full of shades of gray.