Genesis 1 & 2 question

[bytor2112]

Chapter 1 describes the creation periods including the creation of man:

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Chapter 2 also tells of the creation of Adam and Eve and identifies Eden:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living fsoul.

8 ¶ And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

It almost sounds like two different authors for these two chapters, telling the same story a bit differently. Or were there other men before Adam? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Chapter 1 describes the creation periods including the creation of man:

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Chapter 2 also tells of the creation of Adam and Eve and identifies Eden:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living fsoul.

8 ¶ And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

It almost sounds like two different authors for these two chapters, telling the same story a bit differently. Or were there other men before Adam? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

The JST (Moses) makes it clear chapter 1 is speaking of the spiritual creation, chapter 2 is speaking of the physical creation.

[Traveler]

.....

It almost sounds like two different authors for these two chapters, telling the same story a bit differently. Or were there other men before Adam? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

The common belief is that Genesis was written by Moses - some 2500 + years after the Adam and Eve in the garden epoch. That is more time to have passed than what has passed since Jesus. We should not be surprised that there is more than one voice in the scriptures concerning this era. It is interesting that note that most believe that the Genesis stories were handed down by oral tradition and in the stories from the oral traditions of old ancient Hebrew, Eve was not the first women. But the woman before Eve left Adam and became a consort of Satan.

The Traveler

[Justice]

I think what you're seeing here is broad statement of what happened followed up by a more in depth teaching.

"I created man and woman..."

Later...

"And here are some of the more particulars as to how I created them..."

We have 3 accounts of the creation. And, though there were 2 creations, a spiritual then a physical, I believe the Bible speaks only of the physical creation. We know this because in the spiritual creation man and woman were created first, and everything else afterward. In the physical creation everything else was created first, then man and woman were created last.

In the account in the Bible man and woman were created last.

[rameumptom]

Some LDS have believed they are the spiritual and physical creations being discussed.

The Documentary Hypothesis details that the Torah had several authors. While Moses may have been the original author, the story was written down circa 800-850 BCE by two authors (J and E), that wrote things somewhat differently. Later, the stories were combined into one Biblical story. We see this also with the story of Noah, which is actually two combined stories: 2 or 7 animals, 40 days or 13 months, etc. Richard Friedman explains it well in Who Wrote The Bible?

[Hemidakota]

Instead of reading Genesis. read the Book of Moses. This book was received under the hands of Joseph Smith through revelatory means.

There were no mortal humans before the Adams. If in doubt, research much as you can and with your own consolidated thoughts, ask GOD, having faith your question will be answered.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Some LDS have believed they are the spiritual and physical creations being discussed.

The Documentary Hypothesis details that the Torah had several authors. While Moses may have been the original author, the story was written down circa 800-850 BCE by two authors (J and E), that wrote things somewhat differently. Later, the stories were combined into one Biblical story. We see this also with the story of Noah, which is actually two combined stories: 2 or 7 animals, 40 days or 13 months, etc. Richard Friedman explains it well in Who Wrote The Bible?

How is the Noah story confusing? Or the result of 2 writers combining stories?

The story states 2 of each unclean animal and 7 of each clean animal. I don't see this as a contradiction that points to two separate authors.

[rameumptom]

Friedman breaks the Flood story into parts, and you can easily see it as two stories. Even the stories of the raven and dove, we see two events combined.

This is the flavor in the Torah. Moses goes twice to Meribah, both times striking a rock to get water. In one instance (E version), the angel stands above the rock to show Moses where to strike. In the J version, which attempted to promote Aaron and diminish Moses, Moses was chewed out for not doing it right, and lost the privilege of entering into the Promised Land. The Book of Mormon only shares the E version of this story, as the Brass Plates would have been a/the source for E, being from the Northern Kingdom.

[Hemidakota]

Milton Friedman?

[KristofferUmfrey]

Milton Friedman?

Stanton Freidman

[MarginOfError]

During a YSA Conference in 2005 I attended a talk given by a young woman pursuing her graduate degree at Harvard Divinity School. Her talk was about women in the Bible, and in her talk, she shared some interesting insights into the Adam and Eve story.

One of the more interesting points she shared was about the name Adam itself. The name Adam translates to "mankind." But the Hebrews also used Adam as a placeholder...a generic reference into which an individual could place him or herself. The message was that when Moses was teaching the Israelites--and especially when he was teaching those who led the Israelites--about the Creation and the Fall, he would us the word Adam and the people would know to insert themselves into the situation, to learn to apply the lessons to themselves.

Adam also had another use, similar to the use of Eve. Adam, meaning "mankind," was a representation of our ancestry (and in some cases, can be interpreted to be our posterity). In this case, using the word Adam indicated that the lessons being taught could be extended to the entire human race (and Eve, being the first woman, could be extended to all women).

There are some religious scholars who like to take up the debate of whether there was an individual named Adam, or if Adam refers to the initial progenitors of our species. It's an interesting debate, but as far as I can tell, the LDS revelations indicate that there was indeed a single father of mankind. I seem to remember the young lady at the YSA conference confirming that this was her belief, but she wasn't ready to say that our first father's name was in fact Adam. She suggested it was possible that the name Adam was applied to him later for instructive purposes. But in the end, it doesn't really matter whether our first father's name was Adam or not, as the history and the message for us are unchanged.

Listening to her talk was rather enlightening for me. It helped me stop interpreting the Endowment so literally. In fact, if you pay attention in the Endowment, you might notice a point at which Adam and Eve are specifically our First Parents, and a point at which the representation becomes more generic, and applied to the entire race. There's a point in the ordinance where the presentation seems to cease being historical and become primarily symbolic.

So, the short answer to your question, bytor, is that these two accounts in Genesis may very well have been written by two authors, but were both the authors trying to convey the same message? Perhaps one was seeking historical context while the other was presenting a more symbolic message.

Disclaimer: I don't have any sources to back up any of this, other than personal experience and opinion. As such, my knowledge here may benefit from refining if anyone has other input to offer. Great discussion starter, bytor!

[rameumptom]

Milton Friedman?

None of the above. Richard Friedman, student of Frank Moore Cross, and one of the key experts on the Documentary Hypothesis. You can get his book at Amazon.com: Who Wrote the Bible?