Donctrinal References, please?

[PolarBeccaBear]

I was wondering if anyone knew any doctrinal references in regards to Jesus having a perfect knowledge before receiving his body/teaching Adam and Eve in the garden/not needing to 'use' the veil in order to teach them, but instead using a 'conduit', if you will.

I get confused about this particular thing.

Jesus seems to be like God, only missing a body.

Why would we not have also been that way? And if we WERE, then what in the end made the difference between Him and Us, as Spirit children?

[Abraham]

Abr. 3: 18-19

18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two aspirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are bgnolaum, or eternal.

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am amore intelligent than they all.

and John 10:30, they are one in mind, will, spirit, (but not body because they are Father and Son of course) but what one thinks because they are prefectly aligned each knows what the other is and does this includes the Holy Ghost.

Don't forget he said to be ye therfore perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect, but in speaking to the Nephites he addes "as I or your Father is perfect. He had grown line upon line, precept upon precept and gained empathy, and experientially via the Atonement at Gethsemane and reexperiencing that at Calvary then was perfected.

Abraham

[georgia2]

Jesus reached Godhood status before he gained a body. We all reached a certain level of accomplishment while we were in the pre-mortal world. Jesus was the first spirit child of HEavenly Father as well as the only begotten in the flesh. He knew while in the spirit world "all things" thus did have a perfect knowledge before entering his earthly body. When he was born, he did not remember all he knew before. Just like us, he had the veil over his mind too. As he grew and matured he did gain the knowledge, line upon line just like we do. Of course he did gain the knowledge before he was crucified as he understood exactly what his mission was. When he was praying in the garden, he asked if that bitter cup (suffering beyond measure) could be passed from his lips. But, he said, "Thy will be done". All of us have missions, though not as difficult as Jesus Christ. If we become more and more spiritual, gain more and more knowledge, we too can gain a better and more complete knowledge of our earthly mission. This is the hard part.

Jesus was like God, only missing a body. He had to gain his body the same as us. He had to experience the same things as us to fulfill all righteousness. That is why he also had to be baptized. This is a requirement for all flesh to be able to return to the celestial kingdom. We were this way too. The difference between him and us in the pre-mortal world is that he was far, far beyond us in development in his knowledge, strength, perfection, understanding, and obedience. That is why he was selected to come to earth and be the saviour. That also is what made him different from us.(in the spirit world) we were no where close to him in his development and perfection.

There are many many scriptures to explain this, but they are all over the place! The book of Moses explains a lot regarding the garden and Adam and Eve. Jesus himself answers some of your questions in his teachings. some of these things also would be addressed in the temple endowment.

There is nothing that will take the place of studying for yourself because then not only will you gain the answers you seek, but the Spirit can then teach you beyond what is written on the page. You will learn these things spirit to spirit. This is what is meant by "mysteries of the kingdom".

[tubaloth]

Jesus was not God in the sense he had all power (like Heavenly Father) Jesus was God because of his calling to be part of the Godhead.

13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.

17 And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him.

18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

After Christ died and was ressurected he had fulled all he was commanded to do, and had received of the fullness of the Father. We to can follow the same path and gain the same blessing.

And if we WERE, then what in the end made the difference between Him and Us, as Spirit children?

Progression. As the scriptures in Abraham show, we each learned and grew in pre-mortal life. But one progress far beyond any of us.

[georgia2]

QUOTE

13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first. ]

This is speaking of Jesus after he was born on earth. Jesus was a God before he came to earth. He was Jehovah, creator of heaven and earth.

[FunkyTown]

Luke 2:40 suggests Jesus waxed in wisdom on this earth, which suggests a gaining of knowledge.

[Justice]

Yes, I think you are talking about different things.

It's important to remember that Jehova had to come to earth to get a body as well. He may have been the MOST like Father in Heaven, but was still not like Him until He came here. He may have been in the Godhead, but was still not glorified and perfected, as was His Father.

We just need to set a few definitions in order before having conversations like this.

I don't think anyone is saying Jehova was not a member of the Godhead, but also, we all realize that He had to pass through the veil and fulfill the Father's commandments as well.

[Hemidakota]

I was wondering if anyone knew any doctrinal references in regards to Jesus having a perfect knowledge before receiving his body/teaching Adam and Eve in the garden/not needing to 'use' the veil in order to teach them, but instead using a 'conduit', if you will. I get confused about this particular thing. Jesus seems to be like God, only missing a body. Why would we not have also been that way? And if we WERE, then what in the end made the difference between Him and Us, as Spirit children?

The Savior reached that state of perfect knowledge and Godhood while in the Spirit Kingdom. If not, He could not do what was required of Him by the FATHER. This state changed when He inherited the mortal body and again, He had to learn it line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept until the fullness again.

Others may also reach the same pinnacle of life within the Spirit world and had to face the same mortal probation. However, there can only be one Savior, one Lord, and exemplar for all to follow.

[HiJolly]

The Savior reached that state of perfect knowledge and Godhood while in the Spirit Kingdom. If not, He could not do what was required of Him by the FATHER. This state changed when He inherited the mortal body and again, He had to learn it line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept until the fullness again.

Others may also reach the same pinnacle of life within the Spirit world and had to face the same mortal probation. However, there can only be one Savior, one Lord, and exemplar for all to follow.

Yes, indeed. That is why we call it "the great condescension of God".

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

I was wondering if anyone knew any doctrinal references in regards to Jesus having a perfect knowledge before receiving his body/teaching Adam and Eve in the garden/not needing to 'use' the veil in order to teach them, but instead using a 'conduit', if you will.

I get confused about this particular thing.

Jesus seems to be like God, only missing a body.

Why would we not have also been that way? And if we WERE, then what in the end made the difference between Him and Us, as Spirit children?

It is doctrinal (Pearl of Great Price) that we are all of differing degrees of intelligence.

Other than that, I'm not aware of specific doctrine concerning Christ's 'perfect knowledge' prior to His mortal life. There may be, but I'm not coming up w/ it in my head...

HiJolly

[Hemidakota]

Logical assessment here. If He is God, in order to sustain Himself in that position, He has to have that perfect knowledge of that state to function. Same assumption is placed upon GOD HIMSELF, acting in HIS state, HE is required to have full knowledge of that sphere. This does not include what is above HIM though.

What is the word we usually find in the scriptures that reveals God is all knowing? :)

[rameumptom]

Abraham 3 tells us that Abraham saw the great and noble ones gathered around God. These were ones that had already achieved a level of divinity, and Abraham was told he was one of them. Christ had achieved godhood, but had not yet received a fulness (D&C 93), which we receive grace for grace as we move from grace to grace. IOW, there are levels of godhood, just as there are levels of kingdoms of glory (and no glory).

God and we are all made of the same substance: intelligence. This pure and spiritual matter binds us together, and allows us to become more like him. The difference is that God has purified and glorified his substance or self, and we are still on that journey to perfection.

What does it mean to "have a perfect knowledge"? Does it mean Christ knew all of the future, or does it mean that Christ perfectly followed God the Father in a loving relationship? Personally, I'd suggest the second, as there was no need for Christ to know all things at that time. He only needed to know the eternal principles involved and apply them.

[Hemidakota]

Omniscient...