Gospel/Church question

[Sergg]

This is an article of an lds historian, titled "I dont have a testimony of the history of the Church", and when I was going through your phase, I read iti, and it made a lot of sense to me. It didnt rescue, but delayed (a lot) my final 'leaving'. It explains how having a testimony of the church is not the same as having a testimony of its history.

I hope that it does you good, if what you want is to believe the Church, as you yourself said.

I Don't Have a Testimony of the History of the Church

[bytor2112]

P.S. Even if Joseph Smith really was a pervert and just wanted a group of sex slaves, does that change the fact that the Book of Mormon is true? Does it change the fact that he was a prophet of God? Does it make the church untrue? I ask what other have already: What is your testimony based on?

YES...it very well would. If the church were perpetuating a lie.....that surely could not be from God. It would call into question his claim of being a Prophet and every claim he ever made and also any claim by other Presidents of the church. It would be a damning indictment and our beliefs would be predicated on a lie from a master liar.

Thankfully, Joseph was not a pervert, he was a man who lived his life and gave his life in the service of Christ....

[Elgama]

I think to be honest the testimony of the Church is less important than the testimony that you know you are where God wants you without that anything will sway you, if your faith is in the Lord to guide you then that is what matters. Looking at Joseph Smith and what he did and using that as an excuse to diverge from the path God wants you on is in my personal opinion creating idols and placing Joseph Smith above the Lord

-Charley

[Dove]

ttoth2k,

Hello, how are you doing with all the threads that have been posting? From your first post, I can tell you are tentatively reaching out, and have had some pretty strong posts come back at you in responses. I hope you are okay, and are not put off by their strength.

I relate to what you are saying. I too, have struggled much with the people of the church, which have been my biggest downfall. I have been "semi"-active for years due to not being able to get along with other members~honestly, it's been some pretty bitter experiences over a period of years that has lead me to "give up" on church activity. Now I smoke and struggle with going to church and church activities, as well as daily scripture study.....albeit I am doing better with my daily prayers.

ttoth2k, I know God lives, and loves me. I know the power of God has manifested itself to me through the priesthood many a time, mainly through priesthood blessings. I know that the covenants I have made in the waters of baptism and in the temple are authentic and acknowledged by God. I know this.....I know I have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and that He is alive and well and communicates with me often, for which I am sooo grateful for. I know that God works through the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS strongly, and that this church is where He wants me to be, and that it is His church, the true church of Jesus Christ......and I know that it is ran by fallible people.

I also know that the meanest people I have met in general have been those that call themselves its "members." What an irony! I think this is one of the trials of my life, to learn to not rely on the "arm of flesh....."to turn unto Christ, to try, try again, to, what? I don't know. To forgive? To be tolerant? To watch my back, even in the church's setting? A lot of things, mainly, to go to God, to take care of myself, and be accountable for my actions, and do what I need to do to go home.....to love others and find those who will accept and cherish the love I'm attempting to offer and who will show love in return.

I'm so glad you are posting here. I hope you find friends here. I'm sorry you are struggling....but, struggling isn't alway bad. God loves you dearly, and is waiting for you to come unto Him, if you will.....This truly is about faith. The gospel isn't about being proven by scientific fact, "debatable" reason, or historic equations. It's just not set up that way, otherwise we'd have the golden plates to this day. It's set up to be sought after through the Holy Spirit, wisdom, experience, and the senses.....imo.....As has been said, through humility and true desire. Try, try, try....

My best to you in your search

Dove

PS, please keep me up to date in what happens, I'm hoping the best for you...

[john doe]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is true. We LDS believe that the church is the vehicle through which Jesus has chosen to proclaim and practice the gospel. Do we as adherents of the church live as Jesus would like us to? Well, we try, but we obviously fall short, some further than others. But that does not nullify the validity of the truth which Jesus, the head of our church, has given us. The Gospel is true, the church is true, the people in the church, some of them have more work to do to improve.

[ttoth2k]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and the links. I think it might be something I'll struggle with for a short while, but I have not intention of leaving the church. I think this is going to help make my testimony stronger. For as old as I am, I've had only that smallest of testimonies and I've lived on the testimonies of my parents and other family members for so long. Now I'm finding my own testimony, and finding that it's stronger than I ever imagined. I really appreciate the links. I'm not sure when I'll have the chance to go through them in detail but I have them bookmarked for future reference. And if anyone has any good links to church history sites, I'd be grateful. I think it's something that I want to learn a little more about. I'd like to be able to pass some of this information onto my kids, age appropriate of course, so that they're not blindsided by it when they get older.

Thanks again to everyone.

[Palerider]

I don't have any good links but I can give you the name of some good books to read....

[talisyn]

D&C 6

21 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I am the same that came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.

22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things.

23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?

24 And now, behold, you have received a witness; for if I have told you things which no man knoweth have you not received a witness?

This gave me comfort when my own husband turned away from the Church. I hope it helps you as well.

[ttoth2k]

I don't have any good links but I can give you the name of some good books to read....

That'd be great. Thanks.

[Justice]

Can you really separate the actions of the church and the church leaders from the gospel?

Personally, I don't think you can. The only exception being that is a General Authority says something off the record, in a book, or in a non-Church meeting where he offers an opinion.