Clean your own shelf first

[Janice]

In (kinda) breaking my promise to not post in this thread anymore, I share the following quotes. These are not my words... I no longer wish to share my own words in this thread, as no matter what I say, someone twists it into something I did not say. I'm not even going to bold anything because some will accuse me of having not understood something because of what I chose to bold. I would love to include the entire talks, but that would be too long. If you feel that by selecting the quotes I have that I've failed to grasp the over all meaning of the talk, or if you feel safe in judging that I do not understand some basic gospel principle, please counter with your own selected quotes from the same talks.

Christ:

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” (Matt. 7:1–5.)

Elder Lynn A. Mickelsen:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Atonement, Repentance, and Dirty Linen

What should we do when we have knowledge of others’ problems?

1. Don’t judge. Leave judgment to the Lord, the perfect judge. Let us not examine or explore others’ sins but look to their divinity. It is not ours to delve into others’ problems but rather to perceive the breadth of their goodness.

2. We must forgive. Although we may have been personally wounded, the Lord said, “I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.” 11

3. Forget. A relentless memory can canker the most resilient spirit. Leave it alone; lay it down; put it away.

If the wave of temptation to reveal others’ sins comes over you, don’t tell your neighbor or even your best friend. Go to your bishop. Leave the burden with him. If it is required, report it to the civil or criminal authorities and then leave it alone. I believe that to receive the precious promise that Alma received requires the same spirit and action he took regarding his, and others’, dirty linen.

But what if we are right and they are wrong? Shouldn’t we make our position public so others will not judge us to have made the mistake? The Lord has been clear in His instruction regarding this dilemma. It is not our prerogative to judge. The mote is not ours to measure, for the beam in our own eye obstructs our capacity to see. There is no pancake so thin it has only one side. Empathy is required here, the gift to feel what others feel and to understand what others are experiencing. Empathy is the natural outgrowth of charity. It stimulates and enhances our capacity to serve. Empathy is not sympathy but understanding and caring. It is the basis of true friendship. Empathy leads to respect and opens the door to teaching and learning. The Sioux Indians understand this great principle as they pray, “Great Spirit, help me to never judge another until I have walked for two weeks in his moccasins.”

Elder Robert S. Wood:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Instruments of the Lord’s Peace

“This is a church that holds out peace to the world. It is not our duty to go into the world and find fault with others, neither to criticize men because they do not understand”

Joseph B. Worthlin:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Virtue of Kindness

When we are filled with kindness, we are not judgmental. The Savior taught, “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.” 4 He also taught that “with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” 5

“But,” you ask, “what if people are rude?”

Love them.

“If they are obnoxious?”

Love them.

“But what if they offend? Surely I must do something then?”

Love them.

“Wayward?”

The answer is the same. Be kind. Love them.

Marvin J. Ashton:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Tongue Can Be a Sharp Sword

Perhaps the greatest charity comes when we are kind to each other, when we don’t judge or categorize someone else, when we simply give each other the benefit of the doubt or remain quiet. Charity is accepting someone’s differences, weaknesses, and shortcomings; having patience with someone who has let us down; or resisting the impulse to become offended when someone doesn’t handle something the way we might have hoped. Charity is refusing to take advantage of another’s weakness and being willing to forgive someone who has hurt us. Charity is expecting the best of each other.

None of us need one more person bashing or pointing out where we have failed or fallen short. Most of us are already well aware of the areas in which we are weak.

Bonnie D. Parkin:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Choosing Charity: That Good Part

The story of Mary and Martha also illustrates how the gift of charity can be diminished. Within Martha’s request for assistance was an unspoken but clear judgment: “I am right; she is wrong.”

Do we judge one another? Do we criticize each other for individual choices, thinking we know better, when in fact we rarely understand another’s unique circumstance or individual inspiration? Have we ever said, “She works outside the home.” Or, “Her son didn’t serve a mission.” Or, “She’s too old for a calling.” Or, “She can’t—she’s single.” Such judgments, and so many others like them, rob us of the good part, that pure love of Christ.

We also lose sight of that good part when we compare ourselves to others. Her hair is cuter, my legs are fatter, her children are more talented, or her garden’s more productive—sisters, you know the drill. We just can’t do that. We cannot allow ourselves to feel inadequate by focusing on who we aren’t instead of on who we are! We are all sisters in Relief Society. We simply cannot criticize, gossip, or judge and keep the pure love of Christ. Can’t you hear the Lord’s sweet injunction: “Martha, Martha … ?”

Elder Marvin J. Ashton beautifully observed: “Perhaps the greatest charity comes when we are kind to each other, when we don’t judge or categorize someone else, when we simply give each other the benefit of the doubt or remain quiet. Charity is accepting someone’s differences, weaknesses, and shortcomings; having patience with someone who has let us down; or resisting the impulse to become offended when someone doesn’t handle something the way we might have hoped. Charity is refusing to take advantage of another’s weakness and being willing to forgive someone who has hurt us. Charity is expecting the best of each other.” 14

In exercising charity, we come to know a sister’s heart. When we know a sister’s heart, we are different. We won’t judge her. We will simply love her. I invite you to not only love each other more but love each other better. As we do this we will come to know with a surety that “charity never faileth.” 15

N. Eldon Tanner:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Judge Not, That Ye Be Not Judgedâ€

The reason, therefore, that we cannot judge is obvious. We cannot see what is in the heart. We do not know motives, although we impute motives to every action we see. They may be pure while we think they are improper.

It is not possible to judge another fairly unless you know his desires, his faith, and his goals. Because of a different environment, unequal opportunity, and many other things, people are not in the same position. One may start at the top and the other at the bottom, and they may meet as they are going in opposite directions. Someone has said that it is not where you are but the direction in which you are going that counts; not how close you are to failure or success but which way you are headed. How can we, with all our weaknesses and frailties, dare to arrogate to ourselves the position of a judge? At best, man can judge only what he sees; he cannot judge the heart or the intention, or begin to judge the potential of his neighbor.

When we try to judge people, which we should not do, we have a great tendency to look for and take pride in finding weaknesses and faults, such as vanity, dishonesty, immorality, and intrigue. As a result, we see only the worst side of those being judged.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Janice

[Justice]

Thank you, point taken. I know i can be abrupt, but i don't mean anything hateful by it. It's just me trying to prove my point. I rather like it when someone can prove me wrong through the scriptures. Truth is truth regardless of the source.

I wonder how "abrupt" the brother of Jared's words will prove to be?

For those who are unfamiliar with what I'm referring to:

Ether 12:

24 And thou hast made us that we could write but little, because of the awkwardness of our hands. Behold, thou hast not made us mighty in writing like unto the brother of Jared, for thou madest him that the things which he wrote were mighty even as thou art, unto the overpowering of man to read them.

[applepansy]

Janice, thank you for the quotes. They were great.

applepansy

[Elphaba]

I just read this entire thread, and am baffled.

I didn't see anyone being contentious or judgemental at all. I thought it was a very respectful discussion where each of you assertively described your own points of view. What is wrong with that?

Compared to stuff I write, you guys are all Saints.

Seriously, I have no idea what was so hurtful. I'm not saying it wasn't, I just didn't perceive it as such.

Elphaba

[Justice]

I think some posts were edited before you read them. However, even the original posts came across to me as addressing the topic not the people. When people diagree it can often be taken as being critical of the person, when in fact, the intent was to be critical of their opinion.

In any case, I thought I'd add something to this topic that I have always pondered.

It is true, as Janice said, that we are to show love to those who even dispitfully use us. Any hard feelings we harbor toward others hurts us more than it does anyone else.

It's also true that I don't think the intent is to allow people to use us over and over.

Where is the line drawn?

Well, the scriptures often attach numbers like 7 times 70 to how many times we must forgive others.

I think there is a way that both can be true; that we can love others unconditionally, no matter what they have done to us, and to not let others walk on us. The Savior taught the beattitudes to give us a basic understanding of this topic.

I believe we can forgive others, love them, and at the same time learn from their previous behavior.

The point being that as soon as we "condemn" another person, or as soon as we say in our hearts that we won't forgive them, we have "condemned" them in our own mind. We must always consider that at any moment another person can repent and change, and that if we offer the olive branch it might help them. We must be willing to do this, always. This is key to us being able to always repent. It is a perspective that we must develop and learn to have.

I think this keeps the spirit of both sides of the argument.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Justice

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

I think the main problem is Connie misunderstanding what Missingsomething is saying. She is not saying we can't judge a situation or we are not under obligation to preach the gospel. She is speaking of judgmental attitudes and our manner of expressing what we believe is preferable. "Can you believe Sis. So and So's son doesn't wear a white shirt and tie to church??" type attitudes and clucking it to family and friends.

[Guest missingsomething]

I think the main problem is Connie misunderstanding what Missingsomething is saying. She is not saying we can't judge a situation or we are not under obligation to preach the gospel. She is speaking of judgmental attitudes and our manner of expressing what we believe is preferable. "Can you believe Sis. So and So's son doesn't wear a white shirt and tie to church??" type attitudes and clucking it to family and friends.

HALLALEUAH..... FINALLY... YES Warrior... I wish I could give you a 100 thank yous!

Never said... implied... that we should not judge things....of course we judge things... thats why we have agency... its the METHOD of how one judges...and whether or not it is, as has been said.... "Christ-like judgements"... and how you present it to another.

Thank you.

My sister is not a member of this site (cant get her too... she saw this thread and said... "there's enough bickering in my own ward to keep me busy"... but she did say (knowing me as well as she does) that she thinks my main gripe is that a lot of christians lack humility and those are the ones who offend without regard. And that made sense....

And Elphaba... You are a saint.... an Lds.net saint :)

[Connie]

Well, in that case, i sincerely apologize for misunderstanding the intents and purposes of this thread. I see in going back to the beginning of the thread that i was not the only one to misunderstand, and that, at least, makes me feel not quite so alone.

[freckleface]

I have read some wonderful posts here. I've been richly inspired by some of you who have grasped what it is to be more Christ like. I can't thank you enough for that.

The next time I feel that little eyebrow of mine raise up because I think a skirt might be too short, or black fishnets, big loopy earrings, and platform stilettos might be a bit out of place, I'm going to reflect on what I've read here.

There are some truly beautiful souls here who have inspired me tremendously with your love and compassion towards others. I will never forget what I've read here.

Thank you, thank you a million times. Heavenly Father had a job for you to do concerning my attitude, and it was successful. The spirit works in mysterious ways.

I'm sending y'all internet flowers. You know who you are.

:flowers: