question my niece was asked

[Justice]

Yes, the resurrection is divided into 2 parts. It's not necessarily divided between 2 times, but between 2 types of people. The rightous will have part in the 1st resurrection, which will happen before the millennium. The wicked will have part in the 2nd resurrection, which will happen after the millenium. But, it is all classified as "the resurrection."

[Just_A_Guy]

of course i wasn't accusing Mormons of anything, just trying to understand.

actually i was talking about when Herbert C.kimball (member of The first Presidency) said that Joseph Smith would give us thousands of wives if we were to get to celestial heaven without wives.

It was "Heber", not "Herbert". :) I'd have to see the quote before commenting more. Can you provide a cite?

1) Church authorities say a person who is gay in his/her mortal life will not be gay once s/he has passed on. Additionally they say s/he will have the opportunity to have a spouse and children.

Once s/he has passed on, and meets a person person to spend eternity with, how does anyone on earth know who the gay person chose?

I think it's been said that during the Millennium, angels will assist in temple work. Presumably, they will be able to inform those then-living of who should be sealed to whom.

Additionally, how do you have children once you've passed on?

On this earth? I dunno, unless it's possible post-Resurrection during the millennium (we know that exalted couples will be able to create life after the final judgment, anyways.)

And does this mean other couples will be eligible to do the same, i.e. a couple that was childless, which cased them great heartbreak, while on earth?

I don't see why not.

2) Relatively recently, the geneaology policiy has changed so that a deceased woman can now be sealed to all of her husbands, if they are deceased as well. The idea is that she will choose the husband she wants to spend eternity with once she has passed on.

So what happens to the husbands she's rejected? And how does any mortal know to remove the sealing from the rejected husbands? (I'm not sure of the proper nomenclature here.)

Doesn't have to be "removed", if the ordinance was never sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise anyways. But all this assumes that women can't be sealed to two men at once. I'm going to catch heck for saying this, but in light of Joseph Smith's polyandrous marriages I'm not 100% sure that that is the case. We'll find out eventually, won't we?

My point is, there is going to be a heck of a lot of courting going on in the CK, with people rejecting their spouses. Where do these rejected people go? How do they meet new people to marry? Is there any doctrine regarding this situation?

Not in the CK; in the spirit world prior to the resurrection/final judgment. No specific doctrine on the topic of which I am aware.

[geoffrey]

ok thanks guys, i'm not 100% clear on that, but got enough to reply

thanks again

Edited February 28, 2009 by geoffrey

[nick]

of course i wasn't accusing Mormons of anything, just trying to understand.

actually i was talking about when Herbert C.kimball (member of The first Presidency) said that Joseph Smith would give us thousands of wives if we were to get to celestial heaven without wives.

It was "Heber", not "Herbert". I'd have to see the quote before commenting more. Can you provide a cite?

Yep sorry it's Herber, Just_A_Guy , thanks for replying :)

it's in the Journal Of Discourses, vol. 4, page 209

the link:

Journal of Discourses/Volume 4/The Presidency, etc. - Wikisource.

this is what it says:

Supposing that I have a wife or a dozen of them, and she should say, "You cannot be exalted without me," and suppose they all should say so, what of that? They never will affect my salvation one particle. Whose salvation will they affect? Their own. They have got to live their religion, serve their God, and do right, as well as myself. Suppose that I lose the whole of them before I go into the spirit world, but that I have been a good, faithful man all the days of my life, and lived my religion, and had favour with God, and was kind to them, do you think I will be destitute there? No, the Lord says there are more there than there are here. They have been increasing there; they increase there a great deal faster than we do here, because there is no obstruction. They do not call upon the doctors to kill their offspring; there are no doctors there, that is, if they are there, their occupation is changed, which proves that they are not there, because they have ceased to be doctors. In this world very many of the doctors are studying to diminish the human family.

In the spirit world there is an increase of males and females, there are millions of them, and if I am faithful all the time, and continue right along with brother Brigham, we will go to brother Joseph and say, "Here we are brother Joseph; we are here ourselves are we not, with none of the property we possessed in our probationary state, not even the rings on our fingers?" He will say to us, "Come along, my boys, we will give you a good suit of clothes. Where are your wives?" "They are back yonder; they would not follow us." "Never mind," says Joseph, "here are thousands, have all you want." Perhaps some do not believe that, but I am just simple enough to believe it.

so yeah, basically it says that if we were to be married (or unmarried i guess...) but our wives were not to follow us into heaven then Joseph Smith would give us a thousand wives (i think he was saying as many as we would want, whether 10 or a million).

any clues anyone?

God bless

Edited March 1, 2009 by nick

[Just_A_Guy]

Thanks for the quote, Nick.

As it pertains to the original question, I don't see the quote as being remotely problematic. Elder Kimball specifically mentions the spirit world--i.e., before the resurrection.

I think it's incorrect to read Elder Kimball as saying that Joseph Smith will be handing out women all willy nilly, completely on his own authority and independently of the women's own wishes in the matter. Elder Kimball is obviously speaking off-the-cuff (read the whole sermon; he meanders over a variety of subjects), and I wouldn't hold him to a hyper-literal interpretation in this instance. Kimball could just as easily be presenting Smith as a "messenger" figure as a "lawgiver" figure.

The concept of "free will" is not a new doctrine in the Church; Kimball was well aware of it. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Kimball was also well aware that ultimately it's Jesus Christ, and not Joseph Smith, who's calling the shots in the spirit world.

[Snow]

my niece's (15yrs) was asked that how come in the bible it says that no one is given to marriage and that we would all be as the angels, but that we mormons believe just the opposite, obviously she asked me but i didn't know what to reply, me and her are recent converted so i still don't know much, could anyone help?

What the bible says it that in the resurrection people will not marry nor be given in marriage. It seems clear that if that is what the original anonymous authors of Mark and Matthew wrote, it was because they believed it.

What the bible does not say is whether or not people who are already married will stay married in the resurrection (whatever that means) and/or in heaven.

[nick]

Thanks for the quote, Nick.

As it pertains to the original question, I don't see the quote as being remotely problematic. Elder Kimball specifically mentions the spirit world--i.e., before the resurrection.

I think it's incorrect to read Elder Kimball as saying that Joseph Smith will be handing out women all willy nilly, completely on his own authority and independently of the women's own wishes in the matter. Elder Kimball is obviously speaking off-the-cuff (read the whole sermon; he meanders over a variety of subjects), and I wouldn't hold him to a hyper-literal interpretation in this instance. Kimball could just as easily be presenting Smith as a "messenger" figure as a "lawgiver" figure.

The concept of "free will" is not a new doctrine in the Church; Kimball was well aware of it. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Kimball was also well aware that ultimately it's Jesus Christ, and not Joseph Smith, who's calling the shots in the spirit world.

no it's not that I have a "problem" with Joseph Smith Giving us wives, i believe that he'll be there, but that we will be given wives in heaven is what i never understood, because it kind of goes contrary to the response of Jesus, i understood (from this thread) that (basically) we will take our wives in heaven with us (so technically we won't marry them in heaven) but if we are given wives in heaven then that doesn't fit in, from my understanding anyways.

sorry if you already covered that, thanks for your patience

[Just_A_Guy]

Nick, I think the issue is that you're using an overly broad definition of "heaven". Remember, according to the Plan of Salvation we die and go to the spirit world; hang out there for a while; and then are resurrected, receive our final judgment, and officially inherit a kingdom of glory.

Jesus said there is no marriage (i.e. marriage ceremony, per the LDS interpretation) after the resurrection. He did not say that there is no marriage (by proxy) while spirits are in the spirit world awaiting the resurrection. And this latter type of marriage is what Elder Kimball is talking about.

[Moksha]

I think it's incorrect to read Elder Kimball as saying that Joseph Smith will be handing out women all willy nilly, completely on his own authority and independently of the women's own wishes in the matter. Elder Kimball is obviously speaking off-the-cuff (read the whole sermon; he meanders over a variety of subjects), and I wouldn't hold him to a hyper-literal interpretation in this instance. Kimball could just as easily be presenting Smith as a "messenger" figure as a "lawgiver" figure.

The concept of "free will" is not a new doctrine in the Church; Kimball was well aware of it. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Kimball was also well aware that ultimately it's Jesus Christ, and not Joseph Smith, who's calling the shots in the spirit world.

Great point. If the Prophet were to declare all the ladies as free agents, who if they wish could chose their husband or a handsome leader with great charisma like himself or Mitt Romney, there would be many disgruntled former husbands.

.

[nick]

Nick, I think the issue is that you're using an overly broad definition of "heaven". Remember, according to the Plan of Salvation we die and go to the spirit world; hang out there for a while; and then are resurrected, receive our final judgment, and officially inherit a kingdom of glory.

Jesus said there is no marriage (i.e. marriage ceremony, per the LDS interpretation) after the resurrection. He did not say that there is no marriage (by proxy) while spirits are in the spirit world awaiting the resurrection. And this latter type of marriage is what Elder Kimball is talking about.

Ok get it now, just never made that connection

thanks for pin pointing it out