Latter Days

[Winnie G]

Shortly after the tsunami on Boxing Day a old friend started the whole latter days derrick and yes in a way I saw what she was saying but my take on it was different. My husband travelled to Phuket, he spent a week right on the beaches in Thailand. When he checked in to his hotel that also was the royal residents. (Who knows ?)maybe it was there beach side get away.

Any was his room came with a girl sold in to slavery by her parents.

When I say it came with a girl I mean all the ways you can think of. She did more then clean. He was unaware of the duties till she asked him if there was something wrong had she displeased him.

When he asked her age and she was 13 that made him sick.

After that in enlightenment his eyes were then opened to want was going on around him he did not notice before. The act of slavery of children is openly ignored. A large part of this slavery is sexual and the governments at fully aware and refuse to pay attention to it and disregard it.

It is big tourist dollars.

When watching CBC news last night they reported that Middle East newspapers were reporting the tsunamis were man made from Nuclear testing (yah right)

But then in another news cast from Egypt was reporting that religious leaders are teaching that it was gods punishment for the sexual sins of the region, Moslems included.

This does not lesson the tragedy of the whole thing but it did make me turn my head and say to my husband "I can’t find fault in that".

It is vary sad but on a higher note I have been touched by the Canadian government in matching dollar for dollar raised by Canadians till the 11th of January.

People are raising money by every means. I think this is one of the world finest hours. Coming together to help others. I pray that the momentum will last.

[Bunker]

Thank you for this new information, I never knew they had such practices. Maybe God is cleansing the earth.

[Winnie G]

That was my thought exactly talk about Noah’s ark

[Setheus]

I'd like to talk about my experience in Phuket. I was there while the Stennis Battle group was there in 2002. The prostitutes are everywhere. I was advised my one local man that truck loads came in for hours a day for 3 days before the battle group pulled in.

I only saw perhaps 30 Thai girls that were not "for sale". The men driving the cabs will solicite rides to brothels and "massage" parlors. I bought a suit there and while I waited for my hand made 100% silk custom fit suit to be delivered to me I was handed a photo album with photos of girls that I could have while I waited. Every girl in there was right next door...litterally.

I of course refused...so they had them come and "display" themselfs in person. (guess they figured if I saw them in the flesh I would give in) And I really felt sick when the man delivered my suit...he came in out of breath and I was given the suit and whisked out the back door. He had paid off the police at the sweat shop but another one had chased him to where I was and they needed to loose the suit fast. (by the way the suit fits great)

Another experience: in a dance club at Pat Tong beach Phuket I was standing on the second level keeping an eye on my buddy while he danced with two brittish ladies. I was leaning on the rail when a really attractive Thai girl startted small talk. She seemed nice but we could bearly hear eachother. I put my arm around her and leaned in to talk and listen. She told me about her brother in the budist temple and just small talk. She asked if I was with the US Navy and I of course lied and said I was american tourist. While we were talking another girl walks up and hands her a cell phone. the girl I'm with talks for a minute then we talk some more 2-3 minutes go by and again cell phone deal again. She seems to be "trying to act like nothing going on" and she takes my hand and asks if I want to go to 1st level and get a drink. I tell her sure but that I only drink soda. So I'm being dragged through the crowd by this Thai girl and as we get closer to the bar I happen to notice that there are three guys all my size (I tower over thai people and am large against most americans/europeans) standing together, arms crossed, looking right at me. I suddenly feel an ambush comming on. I figure they saw me talking to her and her getting "no where " with me so they called and wanted her to bring me closer to keep an eye on me. I let her hand go and used my size to "make a path through the crowd, snagged up my buddy and the two girls and we went elsewhere. My friend knew that somthing was up but the ladies just thought I got tired of that club or something.

Things to know when in Thailand massage parlors;

Thai massage=700baht for 2 hours, its a full body deep tissue massage (LDS approved)

Oil massage=700baht 2hours, its a full body massage with oil that is not as rough as a deep tissue massage (lds approved)

Foot massage=300baht 1 hour, self explanitory (and yes lds approved)

Special massage=100baht as long as you can last, usually offered at the end of a "lds approved" massage for extra $. I dont want to be put on Mod status so I'll just say its done with their hands and can only be given to men. (Not LDS approved)

Soapy massage=1,400baht 2 hours, they bathe you massage you bathe you again have sex with you then bathe you again (not LDS approved)

40baht is equal to 1 US dollar

The list is endless as to the immoral practices that go on over there in that part of the world. Ask your local sailor about the game "smiles" and you'll get to see a sailor blush and walk away.

But, if God is after them for having low standards....we're all in trouble! In the middle east the prostitutes are local women like everywhere else but for the priviliged and tourists Russian and Ukranian and Chez women are the prize of choice. The slave trade, its strong even in the USA. A lot of the girls stripping "to get through college" in Portland are actually working to pay some one off. They work for free giving all their pay to the guy who bought them. (bought as in paid for their transportation/food/etc because they are a runnaway). When they are almost paid off he sells them to someone else and justifies it as "You were taking too long to pay me back"

While its not a majority in the US it happens more than u want to know. To white girls, black girls , all girls. Not immigrants. Girls that went to school with your kids. It also happens to the mexican immigrants. They are caught into slavery by the Cyotes in AZ and TX. Its not an "ownership" thing, its a Debt issue. They recieve services that they can never hope to pay back and are thus forced to work for free until they either escape or die.

I think the Smashing Pumpkins say it well in this song...

"Bullet With Butterfly Wings"

The world is a vampire, sent to drain

Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames

And what do I get, for my pain

Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game

Even though I know-I suppose I'll show

All my cool and cold-like old job

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved

Now I'm naked, nothing but an animal

But can you fake it, for just one more show

And what do you want, I want to change

And what have you got

When you feel the same

Tell me I'm the only one

Tell me there's no other one

Jesus was the only son

Tell me I'm the chosen one

Jesus was the only son for you

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

And I still believe that I cannot be saved

[Guest JRodan]

Originally posted by Bunker@Jan 5 2005, 12:34 PM

Thank you for this new information, I never knew they had such practices. Maybe God is cleansing the earth.

Yeah, that MUST be it. Especially the third of them who were mere children.

[Guest lt]

OMG, with my daughter nearly 8, that whole thing makes me sick...........................

how could anyone take advantage of a young girl that way.....................If some men weren't such sex addicts and would protest these young woman wouldnt have to do these things...................

[Setheus]

Originally posted by JRodan+Jan 5 2005, 03:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JRodan @ Jan 5 2005, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Bunker@Jan 5 2005, 12:34 PM

Thank you for this new information, I never knew they had such practices. Maybe God is cleansing the earth.

Yeah, that MUST be it. Especially the third of them who were mere children.

Just like when he took out he fist born of Egypt. You may be on to something here.

--------------------------------------

another smashing pumpkin song....WHat? I like the band!

Time is never time at all

You can never ever leave

without leaving a piece of youth

And our lives are forever changed

We will never be the same

The more you change the less you feel

Believe, believe in me,

believe

That life can change, that you're not stuck in vain

We're not the same, we're different tonight

Tonight, so bright

Tonight

And you know you're never sure

But your sure you could be right

If you held yourself up to the light

And the embers never fade

in your city by the lake

The place where you were born

Believe, believe in me

Believe

In the resolute urgency of now

believe

And if you believe there's not a chance tonight

Tonight, so bright

Tonight

We'll crucify the insincere tonight

tonight

We'll make things right, we'l feel it all tonight

tonight

We'll find a way to offer up the night

tonight

The indescribable moments of your life

tonight

The impossible is the possible tonight

Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight

Tonight so bright

Tonight

[pushka]

Winnie, thanks for showing some sympathy and compassion towards the people affected by the tsunami disaster. I feel very sorry for the people who's lives have been affected...unfortunately there will always be people of all nations who are willing to use children/women/young men for prostitution...it is a sad fact of life.

I don't happen to agree with the other comments, however, regarding God cleansing the earth of all the immoral people...we're not living in the Dark Ages anymore folks...

[Spencer]

Pushka,

Do you know that men in India set their wifes on fire quite reguarly?

[pushka]

I didn't know of that particular fact, however I have heard about babies being killed shortly after being born, because they are girls instead of boys...I am not condoning any of this kind of behaviour...I am just saying that I have sympathy for people who have lost their lives or loved ones or friends...not everybody in those countries was immoral...

[Spencer]

Parents who have daughters save their whole lives to give a worthy husband gifts and money etc. And that used to be sufficient, however now a days after newlyweds are married these husbands are unsatisfied and want more from their in laws, and they threaten and often follow through with setting these women on fire.

I dont think this thred means we dont care. I think it is food for thought, look at these situations through our Heavenly Fathers eyes, What do you think he would do? What has he done in the past?

Spencer

[Setheus]

Originally posted by pushka@Jan 7 2005, 09:49 AM

I don't happen to agree with the other comments, however, regarding God cleansing the earth of all the immoral people...we're not living in the Dark Ages anymore folks...

Let me tell u about dark ages. The year, 2003. The country, The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...

With my own eyes I watched a man beheaded after being found guilty of rape. (good u say?) The dead mans blood had not even stopped gushing out of his stump before a young woman was dragged out screaming and pleading. She was stoned to death...for being "impure"!

That young woman was the victim of said rape and due to the fact that she did not have 3 or 4 adult male witnesses to "prove" to the court that she in no way acted prevocativly (or in other words had not ''asked'' for it), she could not be found clean before the court or her husband.

We live in the darkest of ages. Not because we are without the light but because we put out the light and turn it on again after our vile deeds.

[pushka]

I don't doubt how bad these particular men are...and they deserve to be punished. However, we are looking at the situations from 2 different points of view regarding God and The Bible...you believe in God and the bible, and therefore believe the stories within it, I'm not sure about God's existence anymore, and treat the bible as an interesting read...a little like Aesop's Fables perhaps?

[Spencer]

Originally posted by pushka@Jan 7 2005, 01:09 PM

I don't doubt how bad these particular men are...and they deserve to be punished. However, we are looking at the situations from 2 different points of view regarding God and The Bible...you believe in God and the bible, and therefore believe the stories within it, I'm not sure about God's existence anymore, and treat the bible as an interesting read...a little like Aesop's Fables perhaps?

Im not sure, hence this thread. Food for thought. We all care deeply and were awed at the number of people who died in this disaster. To think anyone here didnt have Sympathy, would just be silly.

[Setheus]

Originally posted by pushka@Jan 7 2005, 10:09 AM

I'm not sure about God's existence

If I were your enemy and I wasn't able to get you to just give up and follow me I'd at least try and make you stop following your own side.

Food for thought.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Bunker@Jan 5 2005, 11:34 AM

Thank you for this new information, I never knew they had such practices. Maybe God is cleansing the earth.

IF God is cleasing the earth, he sure is SLOPPY with the mop!

[Cal]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Jan 5 2005, 11:52 AM

That was my thought exactly talk about Noah’s ark

So, talk about it. First, there never was a flood that covered all the earth. Second, the "flood" if it did occur was a localized event, like many others that occur. Third, if it is God's wrath being spewed out on the wicked, all I can say is "He takes very POOR aim".

[Cal]

Originally posted by pushka@Jan 7 2005, 10:09 AM

I don't doubt how bad these particular men are...and they deserve to be punished. However, we are looking at the situations from 2 different points of view regarding God and The Bible...you believe in God and the bible, and therefore believe the stories within it, I'm not sure about God's existence anymore, and treat the bible as an interesting read...a little like Aesop's Fables perhaps?

I can understand the logic behind this thinking. If God CAN prevent natural disasters, and doesn't, that makes him something of a cosmic terrorist, especially considering that the punishment is obviously indiscriminant. If he CAN'T prevent them, that makes him impotent. If he IS causing the disaster, and has to take a whole bunch of innocents with the "wicked" it makes him incompetent. Take your pick.

Nevertheless, I'm willing to believe that God still exists but knows nothing of human logic.

[Guest curvette]

It defies common sense to believe that natural disasters are God's punishment. What about natural disasters that occur out in the middle of nowhere? Who do those punish? Natural disasters that occur in poor, underdeveloped or poorly built areas yield a much larger death rate than cities built to withstand nature. Does God punish people for being poor?

God is perfectly able to selectively punish the wicked, but He doesn't. If He did, we'd be seeing droves of American and British businessmen who frequent these child sex shops falling dead on the street. God makes the rain fall on "the just AND the unjust". Just a little quote from a guy who knows...

Maybe one good thing can come from this condemning attitude. Maybe it will raise world awareness of the child sex industry that is so rampant in Thailand, and pressure their government to wipe it out. While they are at it, maybe they could crack down on the opium problem that is responsible for parents selling their young children to pay for their habits.

[Winnie G]

I really not one for the sings of the second coming since, everyone’s been saying that since I can remember.

Its does make you tip your head to one side when it is mentioned though. ????

It is not hard to notice when counties like south America, Asia Africa seem to have the biblical C kicked out of them every once in a wile.

If it is not a man made i.e.: wars genocide famine then its tsunami’s earthquake……….

It is a interesting to read your idea’s by the way. :)

[Cal]

Originally posted by curvette@Jan 8 2005, 01:11 PM

It defies common sense to believe that natural disasters are God's punishment. What about natural disasters that occur out in the middle of nowhere? Who do those punish? Natural disasters that occur in poor, underdeveloped or poorly built areas yield a much larger death rate than cities built to withstand nature. Does God punish people for being poor?

God is perfectly able to selectively punish the wicked, but He doesn't. If He did, we'd be seeing droves of American and British businessmen who frequent these child sex shops falling dead on the street. God makes the rain fall on "the just AND the unjust". Just a little quote from a guy who knows...

Maybe one good thing can come from this condemning attitude. Maybe it will raise world awareness of the child sex industry that is so rampant in Thailand, and pressure their government to wipe it out. While they are at it, maybe they could crack down on the opium problem that is responsible for parents selling their young children to pay for their habits.

Perhaps the bigger issue is does God have power over ANY natural occurance? If he has such power, how do we explain his failure to use it?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Jan 8 2005, 10:26 PM

I really not one for the sings of the second coming since, everyone’s been saying that since I can remember.

Its does make you tip your head to one side when it is mentioned though. ????

It is not hard to notice when counties like south America, Asia Africa seem to have the biblical C kicked out of them every once in a wile.

If it is not a man made i.e.: wars genocide famine then its tsunami’s earthquake……….

It is a interesting to read your idea’s by the way. :)

It is also interesting that the earthquakes occur along intercontinental plate boundries, and affect most the countries near them. Quite a coincidence that all the wicked people live near tectonic plate boundries.

[Setheus]

Here is the true reason that this terrible thing has occoured...

SH*T HAPPENS!

We all knew it and accepted it when we agreed with the Lord to take this test.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Setheus@Jan 8 2005, 10:51 PM

Here is the true reason that this terrible thing has occoured...

SH*T HAPPENS!

We all knew it and accepted it when we agreed with the Lord to take this test.

I don't remember any such agreement. Do you?

[pushka]

Originally posted by curvette@Jan 8 2005, 01:11 PM

Maybe one good thing can come from this condemning attitude. Maybe it will raise world awareness of the child sex industry that is so rampant in Thailand, and pressure their government to wipe it out. While they are at it, maybe they could crack down on the opium problem that is responsible for parents selling their young children to pay for their habits.

Good point Curvette..let's hope that something is done to help these poor innocents.