Hill Cumorah Expedition Team

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia@Jan 26 2005, 11:40 PM

I find it interesting that the mountain was opened by an earthquake and then closed by lime infested moss. Maybe it is because we are to know it exists but are not ready to receive what is inside.

While I think it is great that God has given many this testimony, I agree, Amillia. The records are supposed to be proved by the world, not the church (or those in the church).

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 27 2005, 07:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 27 2005, 07:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Jan 26 2005, 11:40 PM

I find it interesting that the mountain was opened by an earthquake and then closed by lime infested moss. Maybe it is because we are to know it exists but are not ready to receive what is inside.

While I think it is great that God has given many this testimony, I agree, Amillia. The records are supposed to be proved by the world, not the church (or those in the church).

My first thought was similar to Amillias. Then I thought about the tablet coming out and what it might prove.

As Kevinb93 was telling of his experience I tried to envision it as it might have happened. What I got from this is that he, who is a "just a guy who is following the direction of the Spirit as best he can" received a special power or witness when holding this tablet. I don't mean to take away from his experience in any way but this is the kind of stuff that we would see in a movie like Raiders Of The Lost Ark.

So many thoughts are rushing around in my head of the thought that this could be true. Modern technology has produced so many ways of communication including the WWW. I think about if this were available in the time of Joseph Smith, how his message might have been received. Then I think of how many people we have had "drop into" our website here, stir things up, and then they are gone.

Jenda, your comment about the world proving the records... where does that come from? How do you think it works in this situation?

[Guest JRodan]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 27 2005, 07:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 27 2005, 07:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Jan 26 2005, 11:40 PM

I find it interesting that the mountain was opened by an earthquake and then closed by lime infested moss. Maybe it is because we are to know it exists but are not ready to receive what is inside.

While I think it is great that God has given many this testimony, I agree, Amillia. The records are supposed to be proved by the world, not the church (or those in the church).

I woudn't put a lot of stock in all this. I mean, what happens if this discovery somehow absolutely DISproves the BoM was an historic account? I think faith is the best way to approach the whole matter.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by JRodan+Jan 27 2005, 10:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JRodan @ Jan 27 2005, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Jan 27 2005, 07:26 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Jan 26 2005, 11:40 PM

I find it interesting that the mountain was opened by an earthquake and then closed by lime infested moss. Maybe it is because we are to know it exists but are not ready to receive what is inside.

While I think it is great that God has given many this testimony, I agree, Amillia. The records are supposed to be proved by the world, not the church (or those in the church).

I woudn't put a lot of stock in all this. I mean, what happens if this discovery somehow absolutely DISproves the BoM was an historic account? I think faith is the best way to approach the whole matter.

I quite agree, but some are incapable of faith.

[shanstress70]

Seriously, I am confused by this. Would someone please give me your perspective on it? Why have I always heard and read that Hill Cumorah is in NY, but now you guys think it could possibly be in Mexico?

Is this place not for real?

Thanks!

[Guest lt]

Information on neil steede:

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/conferen...ker_steede.html

[Guest lt]

My opinion is until it is proven one way or another, I wait to see....

Mary was a simple person, Nehpi was a simple person,and Joseph Smith was a simple person, all of these three recieved revelation

because of there faith in the lord and his ability to guide them. Who are we to say one way or another that it is or isn't possiable.

The bell is out, why can't we wait for it's toll to see the truth?

Just my crazy thoughts.....

LaurelTree

[Jenda]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jan 27 2005, 12:19 PM

Seriously, I am confused by this. Would someone please give me your perspective on it? Why have I always heard and read that Hill Cumorah is in NY, but now you guys think it could possibly be in Mexico?

Is this place not for real?

Thanks!

Hill Cumorah is a library full of plates. Many, many sets of plates (at least 11 of which are recorded, some of them probably have many sets of plates that make up each set, i.e.-- the large plates of Nephi are likely to have 20-30 sets of plates incorporated within that one "set" of plates.) This scripture makes it clear that all the plates, except the one abridged set of plates that Mormon was writing on at the time, that he gave to his son, Moroni, were hidden up and sealed in the mountain so they did not fall into the hands of the Lamanites. Moroni then wandered around for about 40 years before he finally hid up the one set of plates that he was carrying. It is entirely conceivable that Moroni carried the plates from Mexico to NY before he hid them up.

Mormon 3:7-8 RLDS (Mormon 6:6 LDS)

7 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer that the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them,)

8 Therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah, all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

[Kevinb93]

Ok. So I'll try to explain why Cumorah is in Mexico and not N.Y. To start, I'm a member of the COC which enables me to believe that Cumorah is in Mexico. The LDS church has tied themselves to the hill in NY as THE hill, where as the COC has not. Joseph Smith never called the one in NY Cumorah. Others claimed that he said that, but I have found no evidence of it. Therefore, the LDS are tied to NY. They uphold their position that NY is THE hill. They are stuck with it. I'm all about faith. What I love about archeology is the opportunity to prove what is in the bible or bom as true. We shouldn't be afraid of what the outcome of looking for the truth is. Archeology, I believe, will be used to backup the validity of the plates, which will back up the BOM. However, having said that, it makes no sense what so ever that NY is THE hill. Where are all the great cities? They don't exist in America. Mexico is entirely different. FARMS does a lot of work in Mexico. I disagree with them often, but at least they are down there looking. There are many descriptions in the BOM of where Cumorah is located. I believe those are clues. Look up the scriptures that involve Cumorah or the final battle and try to look for all the descriptions. We believe that this hill fits all of those descriptions, and the archeological evidence backs up our theory.

I don't need to have any physical evidence that the BOM is true. I know it is through faith. The point of looking isn't for me. It's for the world. If no one is out looking for the plates, how are they ever going to be found? We have found great refuge in the DOC. Sect. 58 6 c-i. Joseph Smith is talking to a group in Jackson County Missouri and says this; [sec 58:6c] for, behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things, for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

[sec 58:6d] Verily I say, Men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; for the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves.

[sec 58:6e] And inasmuch as men do good, they shall in nowise lose their reward.

[sec 58:6f] But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.

[sec 58:6g] Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments?

[sec 58:6h] Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?

[sec 58:6i] I command and a man obeys not, I revoke and they receive not the blessing; then they say in their hearts, This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But woe unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above.

This is what we believe we are doing. We don't argue that the plates will come out in God's due time. We whole heartedly agree. We're just trying to put ourselves in a position where He can use us. Amillia is on to something that I believe. That is that we are to know that it exists but the timing isn't quite right yet. Joseph Smith was taken to the hill in NY for four years before he was given the plates to translate. Each year he learned and grew spiritually and then was allowed to take them. I am in no way putting us in the same category as him, being a prophet and all, but I think that the lessons that we have learned and the growth we have experienced is very similar. I believe that the tablet was given to us to give faith to the wavering in the restoration movement. To hold them up until the plates come forth. To give not just my group but all of us who believe in the restoration of Christ's church, hope. Hope that His kingdom is at hand. Belief in the hill in any one area, or even in the BOM isn't what REALLY matters. Christ is. I think about all of those who don't have a relationship with Christ and I don't see how they get through each day. It's for them that don't believe in Him that the BOM was written. It's for them that the plates will come forth - to the convincing of the gentiles and the Jews. We as restorationists, Christ's restored church, already believe.

Again, I wouldn't be afraid of BOM archeology. If you truly believe that Joseph was a prophet and he translated plates and called them The Book of Mormon, then archeology should excite you. Even the DNA argument against the BOM is bogus. The sampling that was used is unscientific. I doubt that we will ever be able to prove that the BOM is true through DNA. The way that you test it is such that it just won't be possible. It’s a very complex issue.

We live in exciting times........

[StrawberryFields]

So will you go again this April?

[Kevinb93]

We are planning on it. We meet every other Thursday and fast every Thursday as a group. We aren't taking any of this lightly. We have been preparing ourselves as best we can. We each have had different experiences that have led us to this work. Each of us feels the Spirit calling us to this place at this time. Only Neil is formally educated in archeology, but that's what’s great about the Lord. He uses the uneducated - the Shepard or the inquisitive 14 year old boy. I believe if you put yourself in a position for Him to use you, then He will. It may not happen this year or next, but I have faith that the plates are just around the corner-maybe not by our group, and that is fine. I would be more than happy if they came forth as the Dead Sea scrolls did - just a boy throwing stones into caves. I believe that God will direct whoever finds them, that they would be guided as to what to do with them.

[Blessed]

Would you be Kevin B from Illinois??

[Kevinb93]

Ah, nope. I live in Independence Missouri.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Kevinb93@Jan 27 2005, 03:28 PM

We are planning on it. We meet every other Thursday and fast every Thursday as a group. We aren't taking any of this lightly. We have been preparing ourselves as best we can. We each have had different experiences that have led us to this work. Each of us feels the Spirit calling us to this place at this time. Only Neil is formally educated in archeology, but that's whatÃÔ great about the Lord. He uses the uneducated - the Shepard or the inquisitive 14 year old boy. I believe if you put yourself in a position for Him to use you, then He will. It may not happen this year or next, but I have faith that the plates are just around the corner-maybe not by our group, and that is fine. I would be more than happy if they came forth as the Dead Sea scrolls did - just a boy throwing stones into caves. I believe that God will direct whoever finds them, that they would be guided as to what to do with them.

Nice, and I agree that the Lord uses those who place themselves into a spirit of being useful.

[Idacat]

Originally posted by Kevinb93@Jan 27 2005, 03:48 AM

I'll stick with the person who carries the Spirit with them.

This is what I meant when referring to "faith based archaeology".

If you, and your colleagues want to eventually produce a work of convincing evidence that this IS the Hill Cumorah, this work needs to proceed along the lines of currently accepted archaeological method and theory. Allowing someone to fall to their knees at the prompting of the Holy Spirit and "dig like a dog" to miraculously unearth a stone tablet automatically compromises the integrity of the site. Archaeologically speaking the context in which items are recovered from an archaeological site during excavation is as important, or more important than the actual object itself. I am speaking of factors such as stratigraphy and the spatial relationships between and among individual artifacts or groups of artifacts. This information is vital in making any kind of conclusion from an excavation, up to an including whether or not this was a battlefield. And, this type of "single artifact based conclusions" were what has eventually invaildated the similarly faith based archaeology done under the auspices of BYU in the 1950's and 1960's. So, scientific method and rigor is perhaps MORE important in excavating and analysing sites that may have religious significance than it is when working at/on sites not presumed to have any such connections.

Archaeology is a science, "having the Spirit with them" , if these promptings are true and good, should compel those engaged in a suspected or presumptive Book of Mormon related site (or a Biblical site) if they want their work to be accepted both by the scientific community within which they work and by the community of faith whom they hope to illuminate, to adhere even more strictly to the procedural confines of good archaeological practice.

And, IMO, for those of faith, the kind of archaeological and/or historical validation of any scripture may be interesting and perhaps affirming, but faith itself must ultimately stand alone.

And again, could you addresss my inquiry as to the necessity of the serial transliteration of the "Ogam" on this stone?

And, may I ask what formal training or background in field archaeology and arcaheological method and theory?? What about the fellow whho fell to the ground and "dug like a dog"? Was it not noted at the time that this action could so seriously compromise the integrity of the whole project as to invalidate any conclusions which could eventually be made??

And, you are, of course, correct, that it is my opinion is that the grooves on the La Venta heads are simply that, grooves. But it is also the opinion of the great majority of the scientific archaeolgical community, and if it is expected for this project to ever be accepted as anything but a few fanatics digging like dogs, the opinion of that community matters.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Kevinb93@Jan 27 2005, 01:33 PM

Ok. So I'll try to explain why Cumorah is in Mexico and not N.Y. To start, I'm a member of the COC which enables me to believe that Cumorah is in Mexico. The LDS church has tied themselves to the hill in NY as THE hill, where as the COC has not. Joseph Smith never called the one in NY Cumorah. Others claimed that he said that, but I have found no evidence of it. Therefore, the LDS are tied to NY. They uphold their position that NY is THE hill. They are stuck with it. I'm all about faith. What I love about archeology is the opportunity to prove what is in the bible or bom as true. We shouldn't be afraid of what the outcome of looking for the truth is. Archeology, I believe, will be used to backup the validity of the plates, which will back up the BOM. However, having said that, it makes no sense what so ever that NY is THE hill. Where are all the great cities? They don't exist in America. Mexico is entirely different. FARMS does a lot of work in Mexico. I disagree with them often, but at least they are down there looking. There are many descriptions in the BOM of where Cumorah is located. I believe those are clues. Look up the scriptures that involve Cumorah or the final battle and try to look for all the descriptions. We believe that this hill fits all of those descriptions, and the archeological evidence backs up our theory.

I don't need to have any physical evidence that the BOM is true. I know it is through faith. The point of looking isn't for me. It's for the world. If no one is out looking for the plates, how are they ever going to be found? We have found great refuge in the DOC. Sect. 58 6 c-i. Joseph Smith is talking to a group in Jackson County Missouri and says this; [sec 58:6c] for, behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things, for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

[sec 58:6d] Verily I say, Men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; for the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves.

[sec 58:6e] And inasmuch as men do good, they shall in nowise lose their reward.

[sec 58:6f] But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.

[sec 58:6g] Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments?

[sec 58:6h] Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?

[sec 58:6i] I command and a man obeys not, I revoke and they receive not the blessing; then they say in their hearts, This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But woe unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above.

This is what we believe we are doing. We don't argue that the plates will come out in God's due time. We whole heartedly agree. We're just trying to put ourselves in a position where He can use us. Amillia is on to something that I believe. That is that we are to know that it exists but the timing isn't quite right yet. Joseph Smith was taken to the hill in NY for four years before he was given the plates to translate. Each year he learned and grew spiritually and then was allowed to take them. I am in no way putting us in the same category as him, being a prophet and all, but I think that the lessons that we have learned and the growth we have experienced is very similar. I believe that the tablet was given to us to give faith to the wavering in the restoration movement. To hold them up until the plates come forth. To give not just my group but all of us who believe in the restoration of Christ's church, hope. Hope that His kingdom is at hand. Belief in the hill in any one area, or even in the BOM isn't what REALLY matters. Christ is. I think about all of those who don't have a relationship with Christ and I don't see how they get through each day. It's for them that don't believe in Him that the BOM was written. It's for them that the plates will come forth - to the convincing of the gentiles and the Jews. We as restorationists, Christ's restored church, already believe.

Again, I wouldn't be afraid of BOM archeology. If you truly believe that Joseph was a prophet and he translated plates and called them The Book of Mormon, then archeology should excite you. Even the DNA argument against the BOM is bogus. The sampling that was used is unscientific. I doubt that we will ever be able to prove that the BOM is true through DNA. The way that you test it is such that it just won't be possible. It’s a very complex issue.

We live in exciting times........

Even the DNA argument against the BOM is bogus. The sampling that was used is unscientific.

First, it's not about argument, its about physical evidence. You can argue all you want about it, but the bottomline is, not one single independent archeologist I have ever been able to find thinks that the DNA evidence supports a middle east origin of Native Americans, and the vast majority of Biologists, Populations Geneticists and Archaeologists agree with the interpretation of the DNA studies showing clear links to North East Asians, and no DNA connections to the middle east. And these are scientists that have no axe to grind against the church----they just take the evidence where it logically leads.

Second, as soon as you can come up with even ONE single piece of SOLID evidence that Hebrews were responsible for the archeology of North, Central or South America, I would love to hear about it. On the other hand, there is a mountain of evidence that contradicts the traditional mormon versions.

[Snow]

This is all odd.

John Doe post on a new topic and then a day of two later one of the principles shows up and makes his case in person? Then a day later another archeologist shows up?

Kevin certainly seems like a nice enough fellow with good intentions and admirable faith but this excapade has all the trapping as prior wild-goose chases and not so many of the trapping of anything too credible.

Let's hope I'm wrong though eh.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 27 2005, 06:46 PM

This is all odd.

John Doe post on a new topic and then a day of two later one of the principles shows up and makes his case in person? Then a day later another archeologist shows up?

Kevin certainly seems like a nice enough fellow with good intentions and admirable faith but this excapade has all the trapping as prior wild-goose chases and not so many of the trapping of anything too credible.

Let's hope I'm wrong though eh.

I don't know how the other "archeologist" showed up, unless someone invited someone they knew to come and refute this thread, but I know how Kevinb got here.

But, Snow, tell me what "prior wild-goose chases" means.

[john doe]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 27 2005, 06:46 PM

This is all odd.

John Doe post on a new topic and then a day of two later one of the principles shows up and makes his case in person? Then a day later another archeologist shows up?

Kevin certainly seems like a nice enough fellow with good intentions and admirable faith but this excapade has all the trapping as prior wild-goose chases and not so many of the trapping of anything too credible.

Let's hope I'm wrong though eh.

I'm a little confused here. Snow, are you accusing me of orchestrating something? I can assure you I had nothing to do with these other people popping up suddenly if that is what you are suggesting. I suspect that Jenda or another COCer may have contacted Kevinb, but I was not made aware of his existence here until he posted. And while I do share some of the same doubts as Idacat on this story, I have no idea who he is. I also have no way of proving what I just said.

I would like to see more evidence than what has been provided before I believe what has been presented and projected so far. The claims seem optimistic, but so far I have not seen anything that would convince me that this place is what they claim it to be. So far, the best evidence they have is a piece of stone supposedly written in Ogam, whatever that is. I have not idea what Ogam is, I suppose it must be some ancient language I haven't heard of. I would need to see more before I buy into these claims. Kevinb, if you are out there, good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for, and if you come up with more evidences to support your claims on this issue, please come back and share them with us.

[Idacat]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jan 27 2005, 07:53 PM

I don't know how the other "archeologist" showed up, unless someone invited someone they knew to come and refute this thread, but I know how Kevinb got here. 

I didn't just show up and no one asked me over just to comment. I've been visiting, reading and occasionally posting here few several months, since early fall, I think.

I have a B.S. from BYU, and a PhD. from the University of Utah in Anthropology/New World Archaeology and have specialized in the prehistory of Utah for a little over twenty years now.

Ummm, how DID Kevinb get here??

On edit...you can click on my name to view my profile; I registered Sept 9,2004, with no clue that any subject relevant to my profession would ever come up.

[Idacat]

Originally posted by john doe@Jan 27 2005, 08:30 PM

......... And while I do share some of the same doubts as Idacat on this story, I have no idea who he is..........

Make that she, would you?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 27 2005, 05:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 27 2005, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jan 27 2005, 06:46 PM

This is all odd.

John Doe post on a new topic and then a day of two later one of the principles shows up and makes his case in person? Then a day later another archeologist shows up?

Kevin certainly seems like a nice enough fellow with good intentions and admirable faith but this excapade has all the trapping as prior wild-goose chases and not so many of the trapping of anything too credible.

Let's hope I'm wrong though eh.

I don't know how the other "archeologist" showed up, unless someone invited someone they knew to come and refute this thread, but I know how Kevinb got here.

But, Snow, tell me what "prior wild-goose chases" means.

Well Jenda,

We know how Kevin got here:

"I was searching and found this forum and this topic which happens to be of great interest to me."

It's just odd that he should be searching and should find this obscure topic on this small site within two days of it having been posted. What are the chances of that?

It's maybe not so odd that Idacat would show up - he could have just been a lurker which his last post says he was.

By wild goose chase I was thinking of the early Mormon accounts of big ole caves loaded up with gold and a table covered with plates and stuff - or holes in the ground with treasure yet the treasure was slippery and they couldn't get their hand on it, etc.

Or I was thinking of - I think the guy John Brewer maybe, who supposedly had a secret cave around Manti with all sorts of superduper Book of Mormon proof in it but he wouldn't let anybody in - of course theses caves are always sealed - so finally someone talks Hugh Nibley and another BYU professor into checking it out and whaddyaknow - it was just a wild goose chase.

[Snow]

Originally posted by john doe@Jan 27 2005, 06:30 PM

I'm a little confused here. Snow, are you accusing me of orchestrating something? I can assure you I had nothing to do with these other people popping up suddenly if that is what you are suggesting. I suspect that Jenda or another COCer may have contacted Kevinb, but I was not made aware of his existence here until he posted. And while I do share some of the same doubts as Idacat on this story, I have no idea who he is. I also have no way of proving what I just said.

I would like to see more evidence than what has been provided before I believe what has been presented and projected so far. The claims seem optimistic, but so far I have not seen anything that would convince me that this place is what they claim it to be. So far, the best evidence they have is a piece of stone supposedly written in Ogam, whatever that is. I have not idea what Ogam is, I suppose it must be some ancient language I haven't heard of. I would need to see more before I buy into these claims. Kevinb, if you are out there, good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for, and if you come up with more evidences to support your claims on this issue, please come back and share them with us.

No John,

I know you're not up to anything. Obviously someone like Jenda just emailed Kevin. I don't know why he obfuscated on that so I am just saying, tongue-in-cheek, that's it's odd.

Here's something on Ogam from the web:

THE OGAM ALPHABET.

It is suggested that Ogam came to Ireland from North Africa with the first Gnostic missionaries who preached the early Irish Christianity. These people believed in magic, just like the pre-Chistian inhabitants did. As Anthony Jackson (1993) discovered, this magic took the shape of numerical wizardry with letters (see the Saharan Language). It is not known if the original Ogam had an organized alphabet but it is likely.  The Gnostic missionaries used the script to spread the Gospel by marking their Biblical phrases on neolithic standing stones to convert the people to Christianity. Around 650 A.D. Benedictine monks and their grammarians came to Ireland with instructions to create a distinct language to replace the "iron" language of the Irish, which they called Cruithin. They found it necessary to augment the early alphabetic script with five diphthong characters, called Forfeda (see below) and further develop it to accomodate the linguistic and literary activities they had in mind. There is no doubt that these people were linguistic professionals in the best tradition.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Idacat+Jan 27 2005, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Idacat @ Jan 27 2005, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--john doe@Jan 27 2005, 08:30 PM

......... And while I do share some of the same doubts as Idacat on this story, I have no idea who he is..........

Make that she, would you?

Okay, we will.

What can you tell us, if anything, about the reputation of Neil Steede. He was educated at Graceland, and elsewhere, that connotes something. Is he a serious archeologist?

Does this have any trappings that earmark it as a serious and valid endeavor?

When did you go to the U?

[Jenda]

I'm sure if you asked Kevinb how he got here, he would answer. He did when I asked.