Mourning

[Guest curvette]

Okay, so Americans aren't very good at grieving their dead. Psychologists are concerned about our culture's method of dealing with death and our short mourning periods. But, the trends I see in the church seem among the worst to me.

My friend died in October. She was a wonderful mother to six wonderful children, and was married to the same man for almost thirty years. Now, less than FOUR MONTHS later, her youngest son (22 or 23 years old) is trying to fix his dad up on a date!!!!!!! What the #@*&?????? I am so disgusted, but I don't know where to focus my disgust! YES! Life goes on. YES! I would hope that SOMEDAY this man finds another mate. But this is the most inappropriate thing I've ever heard of. Is there no respect for the dead? This couple was together over thirty years! Shouldn't there be SOME period of grieving and adjustment? Is this just the biggest bonehead of a kid on the planet? What?

[Blessed]

Curvette,

The son knew his mother and knows his father better than you. Perhaps he sees things that you cannot because of the grieving stage. If the father is not ready, he will let his son know.

It is so hard to let go of those we love. My prayers will be that you will find comfort and peace and will want the best for the husband of your friend even if you may not agree with it. It is hard, but life does go on and you know she would want that more than anything else.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette@Feb 2 2005, 11:59 AM

Okay, so Americans aren't very good at grieving their dead. Psychologists are concerned about our culture's method of dealing with death and our short mourning periods. But, the trends I see in the church seem among the worst to me.

My friend died in October. She was a wonderful mother to six wonderful children, and was married to the same man for almost thirty years. Now, less than FOUR MONTHS later, her youngest son (22 or 23 years old) is trying to fix his dad up on a date!!!!!!! What the #@*&?????? I am so disgusted, but I don't know where to focus my disgust! YES! Life goes on. YES! I would hope that SOMEDAY this man finds another mate. But this is the most inappropriate thing I've ever heard of. Is there no respect for the dead? This couple was together over thirty years! Shouldn't there be SOME period of grieving and adjustment? Is this just the biggest bonehead of a kid on the planet? What?

When I had my puppy poisoned, I didn't get over it until I got an new one. That was four years.

When we lose someone, it is important not to make it our focus, or it will take us over. The matter with your way of thinking is that you think it is all here and now. The one who died has moved on, isn't grieving over the family left behind. They are in a better place. The grief is really about ourselves in the first place. So why not take care of it with moving on also.

What does grief do for you? What does it do for the one who died? What does it do for those 6 children?

I had a friend who remarried after 6 months and he kept the mother of his children's birthday celebrated and at that time each year they would celebrate what a wonderful person she was and what she had done for all of them. I think celebrating a person after they die is so much more healthy and wonderful than mourning them by shutting down on life and moping around, speaking of the dead person only in sadness.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Blessed@Feb 2 2005, 11:42 AM

Curvette,

The son knew his mother and knows his father better than you.

You're probably right that he knows his father better than I do, but I'm now quite sure that he didn't know his mother at all.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 2 2005, 11:51 AM

What does grief do for you? What does it do for the one who died? What does it do for those 6 children?

.

What does happiness do for you? What does excitement do for you? What does anger do for you? What do any of our human emotions do for us? They are all a part of the human experience, and are God given. Being in complete denial of any of them is to deny our humanity. We don't ignore them. We deal with them and THEN move on. These six children are all grown. If my little brother were out fixing my dad up four months after my mom's death--I'd take it as a great sign of disrespect to my mom. After a year or two, I'd probably be looking too.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 2 2005, 01:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 2 2005, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 2 2005, 11:51 AM

What does grief do for you? What does it do for the one who died? What does it do for those 6 children?

.

What does happiness do for you? What does excitement do for you? What does anger do for you? What do any of our human emotions do for us? They are all a part of the human experience, and are God given. Being in complete denial of any of them is to deny our humanity. We don't ignore them. We deal with them and THEN move on. These six children are all grown. If my little brother were out fixing my dad up four months after my mom's death--I'd take it as a great sign of disrespect to my mom. After a year or two, I'd probably be looking too.

I don't think we can put a time on how long it takes to grieve. If one was dying for a long time, much of the grieving has already been done for the length of the time they knew of the impending death.

Also, grief is personal, yet you have decide when this guy has a right to stop. You are all over the place on this on Curvette.

[Lindy]

Yes, grief is personal, it affects different people differently, my heart hurts for your grief, anger and frustration Curvette. I'm sorry for your loss, it hurts to lose a good friend.

Maybe the mom confided to the son that she wanted him to help his dad thru the grieving process, and this is the only way he knew how to help. Maybe the dad confided to the son that he thought it might help to find a woman to talk to and unload some of the feelings and hurt he has held bottled up inside. There are so many ifs or maybe's to consider.

I hope it gets easier for all concerned.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 2 2005, 01:00 PM

Also, grief is personal, yet you have decide when this guy has a right to stop. You are all over the place on this on Curvette.

Four months after thirty years? Come on! It's not normal.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Feb 2 2005, 01:28 PM

Maybe the dad confided to the son that he thought it might help to find a woman to talk to and unload some of the feelings and hurt he has held bottled up inside.

Actually the dad didn't respond at all. He just kind of walked away. He's just numb. There is no way on earth he is ready for a new relationship. My astonishment isn't at the dad--it's at the son.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 2 2005, 02:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 2 2005, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 2 2005, 01:00 PM

Also, grief is personal, yet you have decide when this guy has a right to stop. You are all over the place on this on Curvette.

Four months after thirty years? Come on! It's not normal.

I don't know that I would be more or less grieved at 10 years, 20 years or 50 years. If you really love this person, time doesn't make the love.

I think that if the father is still grieving, the son is doing whatever he can to help his dad through it. I just don't get your anger here. Like Lindy suggested, maybe the mother instructed her son to help the father find someone.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 2 2005, 01:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 2 2005, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--lindy9556@Feb 2 2005, 01:28 PM

Maybe the dad confided to the son that he thought it might help to find a woman to talk to and unload some of the feelings and hurt he has held bottled up inside.

Actually the dad didn't respond at all. He just kind of walked away. He's just numb. There is no way on earth he is ready for a new relationship. My astonishment isn't at the dad--it's at the son.

Good for him (dad) maybe that helped to give a message to the son. And maybe the son just doesn't understand what it is like to be in that position. Lots of things to consider Curvette. And I agree with you that 4 months is way to soon to even think about a new relationship after 30 years......that's my thinking too...... but not everyone holds that same thought pattern. Everyone has different ways of thinking about the same situations, have you thought about talking to the son and voice your concerns for the father? Maybe the son just is oblivious to what is going on.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

When we had those awful repressive Victorian mores, one advantage was that we didn't have to stress about these questions. There was a recognized "decent interval" for mourning, usually about a year. That way, nobody would make a faux pas like trying to fix a bereaved person up with a date too soon; if he did try to set something up after the decent interval, the fixee (even if he personally wasn't ready to date again) wouldn't be shocked or "numb" at the fixer's cluelessness; he'd just let the fixer know that he, personally, wasn't quite ready to date again.

I think there's something to be said for having some acknowledged rules of the game.

[Traveler]

I agree with you curvette but I look at it a little different. If I had lost my wife and had waited until the dust had cleared for a time to move on; the last thing I would want to start out dating someone that had just lost their beloved 3 months ago.

And as I write this - if I was the one that had only wated 3 months would I really want to date someone interested in me since I would be the type to only wait 3 months? I think the problem with death is not so much respecting the dead as it is good sense with those that remained in life.

The Traveler

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 2 2005, 02:21 PM

I just don't get your anger here.

It's wierd. I don't understand the level of "disconnect" from this son to his loving and loyal mother. This is a woman who bent over backwards for her family always. She always made a big deal out of birthdays and special occasions. Created a fun and stable home. Worked her rear off when her husband lost his job. I remember the year NO one in her family (kids or husband) remembered her birthday. She was soooooo devastated. No. This is a woman who would definitely want her husband to eventually remarry, but who would turn over in her grave if she knew her son was trying to find a replacement for her husband so soon. If you don't understand why this upsets me than we differ greatly on how we view relationships.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Feb 2 2005, 03:18 PM

When we had those awful repressive Victorian mores, one advantage was that we didn't have to stress about these questions. There was a recognized "decent interval" for mourning, usually about a year. That way, nobody would make a faux pas like trying to fix a bereaved person up with a date too soon; if he did try to set something up after the decent interval, the fixee (even if he personally wasn't ready to date again) wouldn't be shocked or "numb" at the fixer's cluelessness; he'd just let the fixer know that he, personally, wasn't quite ready to date again.

I think there's something to be said for having some acknowledged rules of the game.

Yes, formal "etiquette" has largely gone by the wayside. If this woman wasn't a friend of mine, I'd just brush it off as very odd and insensitive. Maybe some people do need instruction on what seems painfully obvious to most. I'll try to chalk it up to his youth and immaturity.

[StrawberryFields]

This is a topic that touches my everyday life because of the loss of my own mom. A vulture of a woman came to my mom's viewing with "motive" on her mind. I saw her motive when she had not seen my dad for 20 years and then she shows up at my mom's viewing to "hit on" my vulnrunable father. This vulture has not let my dad have a moment’s peace and my father has buried him grief along with my mom. My dad has become so forgetful that we thought that he might be having early signs of alzheimers. After seeing the doctor it is determined that he may very well be depressed. It is not good for a person the skip the grieving process. I do however understand that men, the weaker sex , have a very difficult time being alone.

The bottom line here is that if you don't go though grief, it will chase you down and make you sick.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Feb 2 2005, 09:25 PM

This is a topic that touches my everyday life because of the loss of my own mom. A vulture of a woman came to my mom's viewing with "motive" on her mind. I saw her motive when she had not seen my dad for 20 years and then she shows up at my mom's viewing to "hit on" my vulnrunable father. This vulture has not let my dad have a moment’s peace and my father has buried him grief along with my mom. My dad has become so forgetful that we thought that he might be having early signs of alzheimers. After seeing the doctor it is determined that he may very well be depressed. It is not good for a person the skip the grieving process. I do however understand that men, the weaker sex , have a very difficult time being alone.

The bottom line here is that if you don't go though grief, it will chase you down and make you sick.

I remember. I can see a "vulturish" woman moving in on a man like that. What I can't see is a son picking out a date for his dad when mom is barely gone. I agree with you on the grief process.

[Blessed]

When my mother died my dad immediately began dating another woman... after being married to my mother almost 40 years. He continued to grieve for my mother and to this day still does, but he needed companionship to help him get through it. He no longer dates her... hasn't for about 6 months or so. I think it was just a ... oh, I can't think of the word for it, but I knew it was not my place to sit in judgment of him. He needed my support.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Blessed@Feb 2 2005, 11:15 PM

When my mother died my dad immediately began dating another woman... after being married to my mother almost 40 years. He continued to grieve for my mother and to this day still does, but he needed companionship to help him get through it. He no longer dates her... hasn't for about 6 months or so. I think it was just a ... oh, I can't think of the word for it, but I knew it was not my place to sit in judgment of him. He needed my support.

I think Strawberry has a point. There are those out there looking to take advantage of the vulnerable. But each person and experience is different. I think Blessed says it best, it isn't our place to judge anyone, but we need to support them.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 2 2005, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 2 2005, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 2 2005, 02:21 PM

I just don't get your anger here.

It's wierd. I don't understand the level of "disconnect" from this son to his loving and loyal mother. This is a woman who bent over backwards for her family always. She always made a big deal out of birthdays and special occasions. Created a fun and stable home. Worked her rear off when her husband lost his job. I remember the year NO one in her family (kids or husband) remembered her birthday. She was soooooo devastated. No. This is a woman who would definitely want her husband to eventually remarry, but who would turn over in her grave if she knew her son was trying to find a replacement for her husband so soon. If you don't understand why this upsets me than we differ greatly on how we view relationships.

I wonder if the son is being overwhelmed by his father's grief, it is really hardest on the children because they probably can't go to their grieving father for support of their own grief.

Maybe this son just thought if Dad got over it, he would be there more for them. Grieving does take alot out of the family life.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 2 2005, 10:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 2 2005, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Feb 2 2005, 09:25 PM

This is a topic that touches my everyday life because of the loss of my own mom. A vulture of a woman came to my mom's viewing with "motive" on her mind. I saw her motive when she had not seen my dad for 20 years and then she shows up at my mom's viewing to "hit on" my vulnrunable father. This vulture has not let my dad have a moment’s peace and my father has buried him grief along with my mom. My dad has become so forgetful that we thought that he might be having early signs of alzheimers. After seeing the doctor it is determined that he may very well be depressed. It is not good for a person the skip the grieving process. I do however understand that men, the weaker sex , have a very difficult time being alone.

The bottom line here is that if you don't go though grief, it will chase you down and make you sick.

I remember. I can see a "vulturish" woman moving in on a man like that. What I can't see is a son picking out a date for his dad when mom is barely gone. I agree with you on the grief process.

Curvette, something I forgot to mention is that my own brother was and still is more supportive of my dad on this. His reasoning has been that he just wants to see my dad happy. The truth is that I want to see him happy too but a woman, who has disrespected my mother by showing up at her viewing the way she did, deserves no respect from me. How I deal with her in my dads life is that he believes that she is a good woman despite of my feeling and her multiple marriages so she is tolerated.

I think that maybe this son is trying to find someone for his father to fill the void he has for losing his wife. The way my brother and I feel about my dad and his happiness are different but I don't feel that he is wrong for feeling the way he does.

I am sorry that you have to feel the pain of losing your friend, and then viewing this. Your feeling are one of loyality to a good friend.