Powers allowed satan

[farmer]

I am trying to find evidence in the old and new testament that satan cannot reproduce or imitate love and peace. It is my understanding that this is one way we can discern the holy spirit from satan. Is this correct?

The reason I am searching is because my mother believes the only thing he can't do is come in a cloud of glory. She believes that if the only way to tell the difference between satan and the holy ghost is by the old and new testament.

The problem to me with that thinking is in the interpretation of scripture. If I am searching for the true meaning of a given scripture I have to rely on the holy spirit to guide me but if I cannot discern the difference in who is guiding me then I am in a heep of trouble.

What say you brothers and sisters?

[prospectmom]

How, then, may we resist the evil one? In all his evil doings, the adversary can go no further than the ]transgressor permits him to go, and we can gain complete power to resist the evils caused by Satan through adherence to the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Members of the Church may have the blessing of the Holy Ghost, the prompter, as a companion as well, and when the Holy Ghost is really within us, Satan must remain without. Study of the scriptures, prayer, faithful living of the commandments of the Lord, the discharge of church obligations and duties, being a considerate neighbor, and using the heaven-sent program of family home evenings can provide a basis for having the Holy Ghost as a constant companion and protector, which will result in peace and happiness.

This came from ...Ensign » 1974 » November

Power Over Satan

Elder ElRay L. Christiansen

Assistant

[Dravin]

5 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Kinda pointless to tell us the fruits of the Spirit if they are also the fruits of Satan. Also consider this:

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good afruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

To bad you are limiting to the Bible because the Book of Mormon has some good versus such as Moroni 7:12-17:

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

Bolding added.

That having been said Satan has counterfits he can throw at you, for instance instead of love he can throw lust and infatuation, instead of joy he can throw light mindedness. We can also of our own accord conjure up emotions that we'll identify as coming from the spirit when they nessicarily aren't, think of all the people who associate crying with feeling the spirit, while you can feel the spirit and be moved to tears, being moved to tears doesn't mean you are feeling the spirit.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Dravin

[Guest tomk]

I am trying to find evidence in the old and new testament that satan cannot reproduce or imitate love and peace. It is my understanding that this is one way we can discern the holy spirit from satan. Is this correct?

The reason I am searching is because my mother believes the only thing he can't do is come in a cloud of glory. She believes that if the only way to tell the difference between satan and the holy ghost is by the old and new testament.

The problem to me with that thinking is in the interpretation of scripture. If I am searching for the true meaning of a given scripture I have to rely on the holy spirit to guide me but if I cannot discern the difference in who is guiding me then I am in a heep of trouble.

What say you brothers and sisters?

Honestly, your time and focus and thoughts are best spent in coming to understand and know the powers that Christ has and gives to us as we come unto Him.

Satan has no power, except what we give him by choosing to follow his whisperings.

[a-train]

Satan has but a single power: temptation.

-a-train

[bytor2112]

Methinks you are trolling...

[Guest tomk]

Satan has but a single power: temptation.

-a-train

Thankfully, we don't have to give into it. We have a choice.

[farmer]

Thanks all for your replies. After thinking about this for a while I came to a similar conclusion as pointed out by tomk. Why am I wasting my time trying to prove someone wrong. I know the deal. I guess I have gotten sucked into the ever popular bible bashing which is wrong even though I only want them to understand and have the truth.

Dravin, its interesting you bring up the crying thing. I rarely come to tears but this last sunday I heard a young woman share her testimony and there was not a dry eye in that chapel including me. Cried like a little girl.

After reading your comments I started to analyze what I felt there verses just crying about something. Its been a lot of years since I just cried over something so its hard for me to determine what the difference is. Could you expound on that?

[Dravin]

I'm not sure if I can, at least not in a meaningful way, just don't automatically assume strong emotions = the Spirit. I can read a good (fictional) book and start crying it doesn't mean I'm feeling the spirit. One can of course feel the Spirit and be moved to tears, when I reactivated and was back to church for the first Sunday the sacrament hymn was "I Stand All Amazed" the spirit bore witness and the tears flowed.

From "Teaching, No Greater Call" (Part B, Chapter 9):

President Howard W. Hunter explained how we can discern different manifestations of the Spirit:

“I get concerned when it appears that strong emotion or free-flowing tears are equated with the presence of the Spirit. Certainly the Spirit of the Lord can bring strong emotional feelings, including tears, but that outward manifestation ought not to be confused with the presence of the Spirit itself.

“I have watched a great many of my brethren over the years and we have shared some rare and unspeakable spiritual experiences together. Those experiences have all been different, each special in its own way, and such sacred moments may or may not be accompanied by tears. Very often they are, but sometimes they are accompanied by total silence. Other times they are accompanied by joy. Always they are accompanied by a great manifestation of the truth, of revelation to the heart. …

“Listen for the truth, hearken to the doctrine, and let the manifestation of the spirit come as it may in all of its many and varied forms. Stay with solid principles; teach from a pure heart. Then the Spirit will penetrate your mind and heart and every mind and heart of your students” (Eternal Investments [address to religious educators, 10 Feb. 1989], 3).

[jadams_4040]

I am trying to find evidence in the old and new testament that satan cannot reproduce or imitate love and peace. It is my understanding that this is one way we can discern the holy spirit from satan. Is this correct?

The reason I am searching is because my mother believes the only thing he can't do is come in a cloud of glory. She believes that if the only way to tell the difference between satan and the holy ghost is by the old and new testament.

The problem to me with that thinking is in the interpretation of scripture. If I am searching for the true meaning of a given scripture I have to rely on the holy spirit to guide me but if I cannot discern the difference in who is guiding me then I am in a heep of trouble.

What say you brothers and sisters?

When we keep ourselves completely worthy; there aint no question as to where it comes from.

satan can only do what we let him do; he has no power over holiness.:)

[Traveler]

I am trying to find evidence in the old and new testament that satan cannot reproduce or imitate love and peace. It is my understanding that this is one way we can discern the holy spirit from satan. Is this correct?

The reason I am searching is because my mother believes the only thing he can't do is come in a cloud of glory. She believes that if the only way to tell the difference between satan and the holy ghost is by the old and new testament.

The problem to me with that thinking is in the interpretation of scripture. If I am searching for the true meaning of a given scripture I have to rely on the holy spirit to guide me but if I cannot discern the difference in who is guiding me then I am in a heep of trouble.

What say you brothers and sisters?

We learn that Satan tried to gain power over Jesus by quoting scripture. I assume if Satan would attempt that with Jesus he would do so with others.

The Pharisees and scribes argued, as does your mother, that truth is in scripture but Jesus countered that one can only know the truth by continuing (doing) what he said or commands.

The power to overcome Satan is not in scripture but in Jesus Christ. It has been my experience that those that know Jesus only through the scriptures do not know Jesus very well (as was most of the Pharisees and Scribes that were the ancient experts in scripture). The correct way to learn of Jesus was as Peter came to understand.

The Traveler

Edited April 1, 2009 by Traveler

[Justice]

Crying when feeling the Spirit is a cry for joy.

Crying for other reasons are usually different, including happy or exitement, which I view as different than joy.

[Maxel]

The reason I am searching is because my mother believes the only thing he can't do is come in a cloud of glory. She believes that if the only way to tell the difference between satan and the holy ghost is by the old and new testament.

You might want to direct your mother to 2 Corinthians 11:14:

14 "and no wonder, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

And Doctrine and Covenants 129:8:

4 "When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God...

8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him."

Of course, if you are attempting to discern between the fruits of the spirit of the Holy Ghost versus the spirit of Satan, I suggest following the advice given by others preceding this comment.

One note: occasionally, we are given insights into the workings of the devil through studying the Gospel of Christ. It's not bad to ponder and understand more about those insights, but do not make it a consuming pastime. I have learned that Satan cannot create anything of his own volition: his power is deception and perversion. Through human agents, Satan can twist natural laws and truths to appear different than what they really are, but the presence of the Priesthood and Christ's influence will force Satan to disperse and begin to undo his diabolical handiwork.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Maxel
Grammar hound

[Guest missingsomething]

Only one I can think of that says this specifically is not in the bible - but its the "wickeness was never happiness"

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Wow it's a good thing the Holy Ghost can be everywhere and within everyone... I never could grasp the whole Holy Ghost concept.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Here is a review of the research I've done:

The Palmoni Scrolls

Here is the drawing of the research I've done:

Palmoni Scrolls

[HiJolly]

Wow it's a good thing the Holy Ghost can be everywhere and within everyone... I never could grasp the whole Holy Ghost concept.

The universal symbol of peace is the dove.

“The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 276).

HiJolly

[Traveler]

.....

Satan has no power, except what we give him by choosing to follow his whisperings.

I would suggest you reread Job and the next time you visit the temple - listen very carefully. Satan has power to try and trouble even those that do not follow his whisperings.

The Traveler

[HiJolly]

I am trying to find evidence in the old and new testament that satan cannot reproduce or imitate love and peace. It is my understanding that this is one way we can discern the holy spirit from satan. Is this correct?

Yes. the one thing Satan can't do is imitate peace.

“The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 276).

The reason I am searching is because my mother believes the only thing he can't do is come in a cloud of glory. She believes that if the only way to tell the difference between satan and the holy ghost is by the old and new testament.

As per the Pearl of Great Price, she has a pretty good point. Moses saw God in His glory, and afterward when Satan appeared Moses said "Where is *thy* glory, that I should worship you?"

The problem to me with that thinking is in the interpretation of scripture. If I am searching for the true meaning of a given scripture I have to rely on the holy spirit to guide me but if I cannot discern the difference in who is guiding me then I am in a heep of trouble.

What say you brothers and sisters?

I agree. We must know the 'flavor' of the Spirit of God, or we are lost.

HiJolly

[Clarity_over_agreement]

I completely DISAGREE with all the prior posts that say things like "Satan has no power, except what we give him by choosing to follow his whisperings." and "Satan has but a single power: temptation"

Satan does have a specific measure powers allotted to him. He was one of the high angels in the pre earth life and when asked by Adam what he was wearing he says that what he wears is symbol of his power and priesthood. He also overcame Joseph smith prior to the first vision. Also Revelation 13:7 reads And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Also he CAN imitate love and peace. He can appear as an angel. He uses cunning and smooth ways to tempt us, sometimes justifying with us or making us feel as though we deserve something which is an imitation of love and care over us. Thus he is the great deceiver, tricking us to think what we might perceive is love is actually not.

So although it is not specifically known what the extent of his powers are, there is evidence to support that it is more than just "temptation" or "influence"

Now the scriptures tell us to seek the gift of discernment, this is one tool we could use to "discern" between devils and angels. Also keep in mind that satan's followers have not flesh and blood therefore any physical being would be from God.

[farmer]

Clarity, so correct me if I misunderstood you but it appears that your saying satan can imitate any and all feelings. Discernment to me is really an inner feeling/voice if you will. Is that wrong?

[Clarity_over_agreement]

I would have to say that the key word in your sentance is "imitate" which means to mimic or to impersonate. (false prophets or actually false anything is an example) In that sense that is exactly what I am saying. As far as discernment is concerned this could be defined as the ability to percieve the reality of something or to see, recognize, or apprehend. We know that in our time Satan, whether personally or vicariously through someone else will decieve (perhaps by trickery, or even IMITATION) even the very elect of god See Joseph Smith Mathey verse 22.

Let me liken this the creation or imitation of "any and all feelings" to a more practical and modern example.

It is pretty easy for a person to imitate any feeling. Just take a gander inside your local Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. Just about any emotion can be artificially created in movies through actors. Satan is the GREAT actor and has been doing what he does for a long time. If he were not able to imitate feelings then he wouldn't be a very good devil or deciever would he?

Scriptural example of mimicing or decieving.

He became Satan, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, Moses 4: 4

Scriptural example of discernment.

The wise have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived, D&C 45: 57.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Clarity_over_agreement

[farmer]

If that is the case then I would be inclined to believe that my mother is right ,don't trust your feelings or anything that is not written in the bible. If that is the case then how does anyone really know Joseph wasn't just deceived by an imitation?

The spirit , to me, is a feeling, a quiet voice, a sixth sense if you will but if all that can be masterfully imitated then how can you rely on it? Discernment as you defined is all feeling or some form of it which can be imitated as well I suppose.

I am not saying your wrong and I am not trying to pick a fight its just that if what you say is true then I may be on the wrong path and that is contrary to what the "fruits" of my actions portray.

When one thinks about all of the seemingly gray areas of life how does one let the spirit guide you ?

For instance selling alcohol. Is it right for us to do so or is it wrong?

How about the fact that the church believes that the constitution is a divine work but also the church does not condone violence. What good is the 2nd amendment? If I lived in Illinois or Kaliforniastan I would already be considered a criminal because my guns hold more than 10 rnds. How far do I let my gov. go before I start busting heads? Will I be condemned by god for literally fighting for my rights?

I cannot answer any of these questions with any amount of certainty. Either direction I go could be right or could be wrong. What a great opportunity for satan.

[Clarity_over_agreement]

Just for the record if you disagree with me that is really good because it helps us fine tune our arguments and learn from each other.

Your concerns are quite valid. When I was in the mission field I would see people in other churches convulsing and foaming at the mouth while they were overcome with the "holy spirit". When I would ask them how they new it was the holy spirit and not the spirit of the devil they would describe to me wonderful feelings of love, peace, and warmth.

So I would say that it is very difficult distinguish the correct from the incorrect in some cases. However there are a few rules of thumb.

1. Seek the gift of discernment.

2. Satan does not have a body, therefore a body rules out satanic angels

3. Satan cannot imitate the sign of the dove

4. Often times the spirit confirms only after logical analysis See D&C 9:89

- a note on number 4. Here we see that a feeling alone should not be enough but that analysis, study, pondering, etc should be used here, then in humility one should ask. Sole emotion is unwise and not of god.

5. Look at God's past dealings with man and it should be similar today as it was back then

[farmer]

Right on. I agree 100% on all points.