Firstborn

[mikbone]

Kinda wanted to flesh out the defination for this word. Seems like there are lots of different meanings for the term on the forums.

Here's what I got so far.

1) Born first. The eldest.

2) The child designated to recieve the birthright

3) Member of the Church of the Firstborn

It gets complicated when talking about Jesus Christ because he has so many names

Firstborn in the spirit, Firstborn from the dead, Only begotten, Only begotten in the flesh, Alpha & Omega, I AM, etc.

I think one of the best concrete statements about this term is found in:

THE FATHER AND THE SON:

A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and The Twelve

June 30, 1916

Among the spirit children of Elohim the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors. Following are affirmative scriptures bearing upon this great truth. Paul, writing to the Colossians, says of Jesus Christ: "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell" (Colossians 1:15-19). From this scripture we learn that Jesus Christ was "the firstborn of every creature" and it is evident that the seniority here expressed must be with respect to antemortal existence, for Christ was not the senior of all mortals in the flesh. He is further designated as "the firstborn from the dead" this having reference to Him as the first to be resurrected from the dead, or as elsewhere written "the first fruits of them that slept" (I Corinthians 15:20, see also verse 23); and "the first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5; compare Acts 26:23). The writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews affirms the status of Jesus Christ as the firstborn of the spirit children of His Father, and extols the preeminence of the Christ when tabernacled in flesh: "And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Hebrews 1:6; read the preceding verses). That the spirits who were juniors to Christ were predestined to be born in the image of their Elder Brother is thus attested by Paul: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:28, 29). John the Revelator was commanded to write to the head of the Laodicean church, as the words of the Lord Jesus Christ: "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God" (Revelation 3:14). In the course of a revelation given through Joseph Smith in May, 1833, the Lord Jesus Christ said as before cited: "And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the firstborn" (Doc. & Cov. 93:21). A later verse makes plain the fact that human beings generally were similarly existent in spirit state prior to their embodiment in the flesh: "Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth" (verse 23).

There is no impropriety, therefore, in speaking of Jesus Christ as the Elder Brother of the rest of human kind. That He is by spiritual birth Brother to the rest of us is indicated in Hebrews: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Hebrews 2:17). Let it not be forgotten, however, that He is essentially greater than any and all others, by reason (1) of His seniority as the oldest or firstborn; (2) of His unique status in the flesh as the offspring of a mortal mother and of an immortal, or resurrected and glorified, Father; (3) of His selection and foreordination as the one and only Redeemer and Savior of the race; and (4) of His transcendent sinlessness.

Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons or daughters of Elohim. So far as the stages of eternal progression and attainment have been made known through divine revelation, we are to understand that only resurrected and glorified beings can become parents of spirit offspring. Only such exalted souls have reached maturity in the appointed course of eternal life; and the spirits born to them in the eternal worlds will pass in due sequence through the several stages or estates by which the glorified parents have attained exaltation.

[prospectmom]

1

) Born first. The eldest.

My only interpretation

[TheAngelPalmoni]

To be a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not mean that we are members of the church of the First Born. To be there we must have our Calling and Election. That is how the order of the intelligences bring us. The Light of Christ brings people from outside the church into the gospel where they receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost which is the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ brings people from within the church to the Church of the First Born which is receiving ones Calling and Election.

~Angel Palmoni~

[PastorBob]

The term "Firstborn" is of substantial significance in Judaic theology. From the beginning, when Moses brought the Qabalah from Egypt and gave it as the secret doctrine for the priests, in a Levite family, the only person who admitted to the Qabalah was the firstborn, and the other children were barred from being allowed access, under pain of death to anyone who revealed, as well as to the one it was revealed to, unless he was the firstborn.

Secret Teachings of All Ages: The Qabbalah, the Secret Doctrine of Israel

The Hebrews were "God's chosen" people to preserve and hide this doctrine from the masses, and although the others not firstborn were not initiated, but given the outer religion only, they too were told that they were God's chosen, to ensure that their egoism would go through the roof, and prevent the discovery of the truth, which requires utmost humility.

Each religion has an outer teaching, or veil, for the public, and an inner core with the truth for the adepts, or "princes of masonry" as Albert Pike refers to it. Islam has Sufism, Christianity has Gnosticism, Buddhism has Zen, Hinduism has Yoga, and so on. This is represented by the tabernacle which had an outer room for the laity, and a "Holy of Holies" for the Levite priests who alone were allowed truth. With their destruction the Jews were scattered and the truth lost - what was once sacrifice of the animal desires became sacrifice of literal animals, and so on. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to restore the truth (fulfill the law and prophets) and as with all prophets, was seen as strange, misguided, and demonic even, by the clergy of his day, and was generally rejected by those he came to save ("I come not to save the righteous but to call sinners to repentance" [thus he was sent to the Jews and not Gentiles, who by this point had lost, save for a few, the truth, while it was still present in other nations]) was accepted by the Greeks and Romans. (Note the names of the Gospel writers, Matthew, Luke, Mark, and John, which are all Greek names.)

As a result of the rejection of the Firstborn, or Christ, God destroyed the Hebrew nation and scattered them to the wind.

This fulfilled this prophecy (And note that God refers to the king of Babylon as his servant):

"Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations." Jeremiah 25:9

The term "Firstborn" is thus synonymous with those who have been given the truth.

Jesus spoke in parables, which are allegories, St. Paul says that Abraham was not a person but an allegory in Galatians 4; these are admonitions of the supreme importance of keeping the truth away from the masses. "Cast not pearls before swine."

This is why the terms goyim and gentile (both mean cattle) are used to describe the non-Jew, or non-initiate, who without the truth, is not a wo/man, but a beast to be yoked beneath the veil or outer teaching.

[HiJolly]

To be a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not mean that we are members of the church of the First Born. To be there we must have our Calling and Election. That is how the order of the intelligences bring us. The Light of Christ brings people from outside the church into the gospel where they receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost which is the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ brings people from within the church to the Church of the First Born which is receiving ones Calling and Election.

~Angel Palmoni~

My view is that the "Church of the Firstborn" is the inner fulfillment of the outer "Church of the Lamb of God" spoken of in the Book of Mormon.

HiJolly

[TheAngelPalmoni]

My view is that the "Church of the Firstborn" is the inner fulfillment of the outer "Church of the Lamb of God" spoken of in the Book of Mormon.

Could you please explain this a little more. I am afraid I don't quite understand.

~Angel Palmoni~

[HiJolly]

Could you please explain this a little more. I am afraid I don't quite understand.

~Angel Palmoni~

I will say only a little more. Every ordination or ordinance in the Church is an outward or physical action/performance. And every such ordinance has an inner or spiritual fulfillment that the Holy Spirit of Promise confirms to us, within us, by the power and Gift of God. Two prime examples of this are (1) the "baptism of Fire and of the Holy Ghost" and (2) the temple marriage sealing.

Hope that helps.

HiJolly

[Traveler]

Kinda wanted to flesh out the defination for this word. Seems like there are lots of different meanings for the term on the forums.

Here's what I got so far.

1) Born first. The eldest.

2) The child designated to recieve the birthright

3) Member of the Church of the Firstborn

......

I submit that your #1 is not accurate. In all cases in scripture when there was a dispute with siblings within a family for the birth right of the “first born” the birth right was given to the younger. The more accurate definition of first born would be most noble born. Think of obtaining a seat on a commercial aircraft. If you reserved a first class seat you would not expect that your seat was among the oldest or first installed in the aircraft but the better or best section of the aircraft.

The first born of the Egyptians during the exodus of Moses was not the oldest but the best and brightest of Egypt. The slaying of the first born meant the end of that government class’s rule in Egypt.

The Traveler

[mikbone]

I submit that your #1 is not accurate. In all cases in scripture when there was a dispute with siblings within a family for the birth right of the “first born” the birth right was given to the younger. The more accurate definition of first born would be most noble born. Think of obtaining a seat on a commercial aircraft. If you reserved a first class seat you would not expect that your seat was among the oldest or first installed in the aircraft but the better or best section of the aircraft.

The first born of the Egyptians during the exodus of Moses was not the oldest but the best and brightest of Egypt. The slaying of the first born meant the end of that government class’s rule in Egypt.

The Traveler

Did you see the first post on this thread with the...

THE FATHER AND THE SON:

A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and The Twelve

June 30, 1916

Among the spirit children of Elohim the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.

"the firstborn from the dead" this having reference to Him as the first to be resurrected from the dead, or as elsewhere written "the first fruits of them that slept" (I Corinthians 15:20, see also verse 23); and "the first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5; compare Acts 26:23).

Let it not be forgotten, however, that He is essentially greater than any and all others, by reason (1) of His seniority as the oldest or firstborn

If you did read these parts... how do you come to your conclusion, that he is not the oldest???

[Justice]

We have seen many examples in scripture where sons do not have to be the oldest to have the right of the Firstborn in their families.

This is a topic I have not studied or prayed about in depth so I will just read and take it in.

[mikbone]

We have seen many examples in scripture where sons do not have to be the oldest to have the right of the Firstborn in their families.

This is a topic I have not studied or prayed about in depth so I will just read and take it in.

Granted, many firstborns did not receive the birthright or double portion of his father's possessions. Because position of birth itself does not dictate priesthood aptitude. Deuteronomy 21:17

Consider the following firstborns:

Adam's firstborn son was of so little consequence that his name was not even recorded in scripture. What little we know about him is that he became a wicked man before Cain and Abel were born. Moses 5:2,13,17

Seth received the birthright and was born to Adam in his one hundred and thirtieth year. Genesis 5:3

Of the first eleven patriarchs, the earliest birth of a son that was to become a member of the patriarchal chain was born at his father's sixty-fifth year of life. The average age was at 150 years. Obviously many of these patriarchs were not their father's firstborn. Genesis 5

Abraham's firstborn son was Ishamel Genesis 16: 11-12

But the birthright went to Isaac. Genesis 17:19, 25:5

Esau, Isaac's firstborn sold his birthright to Jacob for a pot of lentils. Genesis 25: 33-34

Jacob's birthright went to Joseph his eleventh born son. Genesis 37:3

Obviously, order of birth does not dictate power in the priesthood or spiritual blessings. The rights of priesthood are based upon righteousness. D&C 121:36

This pattern does not necessairly prove that Jehovah was not the firstborn in the spirit...

D&C 93:21-23 is a very intersting scripture.

Jesus Christ speaking to Joseph Smith states that in the beginning, He was with the Father, and during that time, He was the firstborn. Later on He says that we were also there in the beginnnig with Father, but that we were spirits.

It makes sense to me that Jehovah was the Oldest of all the spirits in the pre-existence. He had progressed so much further than anyone else. Perhaps because he spent extra time with Elohim one on one. Jehovah could have been around a LONG time before the next spiritual child was born...

Edited April 10, 2009 by mikbone

[Traveler]

Did you see the first post on this thread with the...

THE FATHER AND THE SON:

A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and The Twelve

June 30, 1916

Among the spirit children of Elohim the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.

"the firstborn from the dead" this having reference to Him as the first to be resurrected from the dead, or as elsewhere written "the first fruits of them that slept" (I Corinthians 15:20, see also verse 23); and "the first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5; compare Acts 26:23).

Let it not be forgotten, however, that He is essentially greater than any and all others, by reason (1) of His seniority as the oldest or firstborn

If you did read these parts... how do you come to your conclusion, that he is not the oldest???

It is interesting that the title of the “son of the morning” is given to Lucifer. This title, even more than “first born”, is an indication of a chronological elder and is not really associated with Jesus. It is possible that Jesus is the chronological eldest of all the Father’s children but I cannot find a conclusive reference in scripture.

What I do find interesting is that in all cases where a type and shadow is given in scripture of two siblings (brothers) claiming divine inheritance that it is always given to the younger. Another interesting point is that Lucifer is acknowledged as an “anointed one” (Ezek. 28:14) which in the ancient Hebrew latterly means Messiah.

Another interesting reference is that Lucifer (Satan) is also called the “covering Cherub” (Ezek. 28:14 & 16) which has reference to the two Cherubim before the symbolic throne or Mercy Seat of G-d that was commanded to be built for the ancient tabernacle and temple of Israel. One covering Cherub is on the right hand of G-d and one on the left hand of G-d. When Moses was commanded to create this symbolic reference for the tabernacle the scriptures tells us that the two were to face each other. The literal translation of the ancient Hebrew is “and the two BROTHERS will face or oppose each other”. In the ancient covenants of Kingdoms the right hand side of the throne is always the designated place for the noblest, second only to the Suzerain.

Nowhere in any traditional Christian doctrine have I ever seen any reference as to who the brother of Satan could possibly be at the throne of G-d for the judgment of mankind to oppose Satan – despite the fact that the scriptures testify that the rightful place of Jesus Christ is at the right hand of G-d (Acts 7:55:56) and that all the symbols of righteousness associated with a Cherub are also given to Jesus. For example in Genesis 3:24 a Cherub is identified as the symbolic and covenantal “keeper of the way to the tree of life” in the garden of G-d. The scriptures testify that Jesus is the one and only divine proctor or overseer of “the way” for man to return to G-d.

I would note at this point that the LDS are highly criticized for identifying Jesus and Lucifer as brothers; both being spiritual children of G-d the Father. Yet no critic of the LDS that I have ever encountered has the slightest clue who the other Messianic brother that stand before G-d in opposition of Lucifer the accuser might possibly be. They are criticizing in complete ignorance of the whole truth presented in scripture interpreting only those passages they wish and ignoring those that do not suit their purposes of accusing. BTW Jesus tells us that he is that advocate with the Father.

The Traveler

Edited April 10, 2009 by Traveler

[mikbone]

Why have we been trying to compare the firstborn tittle of Jehovah to the birthright that was given to the patriarchs in the Old testament.

I think a much better comparison is comparing the spirit birth of Jehovah to the Edenic birth of Adam.

Adam was firstborn in the garden. We do not have a counting of years or decades or centuries of time that Adam spent in the Garden with God. We have been taught that Adam was born in the garden as a baby. It is obvious that he had to be reared and taught. Adam had to learn how to take care of himself and have an education on survival in the world. I think that God taught Adam how to garden, hunt, obtain metalic ore and refine it and produce tools. Adam must have learned about medicine and Science. Adam was intelligent. He was not kicked out of the Garden unprepared. He spent time one on one with God for a prolonged period of time and did not lose those memories when his mortal probation started. He had a unique insight on life that no other mortal child of God ever had during their probaiton.

I think that Jehovah was like Adam. Jehovah was the firstborn in the spirt, as has been cited over and over by ancient and modern revelation.

The difference between Jehovah and every other spirit child in the pre-existence was VAST. Jehovah was already like unto God. No one else (not even Lucifer) was like unto God during the pre-existence. Jehovah was special. Of this there is no doubt. Abraham 3:24

Edited April 11, 2009 by mikbone

[Justice]

Well, the other side of the coin is that Jesus Christ was born on earth in the meridian of time, yet was the greatest of all born on earth; the Chosen One; the Firstfruits. I never even questioned whether Jehova was the first born spirit child of the Father until recently. But, that I question it now doesn't mean I view Him as less than I did before. I believe everything I used to believe about Him, even that He holds the right of the Firstborn. I don't know that He was or wasn't the first born spirit, but I know He is the Firstborn because of His greatness, and who He is, as is always shown in lesser examples in scripture.

Even when they used to pick lambs to sacrifice, they chose based on other criteria than the lamb's order of birth. I'm just saying there is evidence Firstborn may mean something different, even greater, than first born. But, of course, it's possible it means both too.

But, when I think about it deeper, and ponder of how it might fit into the eternities, it seems that it doesn't "have to" mean He was the first born spirit.