Homosexuality Is Normal

[Guest Starsky]

Paul said:

...but sadly they overlook the reason in which God gave them these conditions, which is to test them.

So true Paul!

Ether 12: 27

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Feb 8 2004, 04:37 PM

The agenda of former LDS members or those who have lost the Spirit and have given into their same sex attraction is to try and convince the rest of the LDS members that their desires are pure and acceptable before God. They want us to accept their condition and allow them to practice it at will. They want us to think it is not sin because God made them that way but sadly they overlook the reason in which God gave them these conditions, which is to test them.

Those who have same sex attraction should not be ashamed. There is nothing immoral or unholy about those who suffer this condition (temptation too) because even Christ was tempted in all points and man must go through the fire of affliction in order to win the prize. I want to see our gay LDS members stop what they are doing and turn their lives around. They cannot be saved in their sins but they can be saved from their sins. Living a homosexual life is not normal but resisting a homosexual life is commendable and I think those who do will be rewarded 100 fold.

Paul O

When will they be rewarded?

If your god makes homosexual animals and homosexual humans, isn't he sending a mixed signal? We are, after all, animals too.

[Paul Osborne]

Antishock,

I’m not an animal and neither are you. I’m a child of God. God has given me the scriptures and therein are his commandments. He gives animals horns, feathers, and fur. Animals can’t read and are consequently free to roam at will.

Those of God's children who resist same sex attraction and win the victory over the world will begin to be rewarded the moment they take their last breath and ever so softly glide into the afterlife-- through the veil. Those who fail the test will have an awful sense of remorse and guilt sweep through through their hearts.

Paul O

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Feb 8 2004, 05:10 PM

Antishock,

I’m not an animal and neither are you. I’m a child of God. God has given me the scriptures and therein are his commandments. He gives animals horns, feathers, and fur. Animals can’t read and are consequently free to roam at will.

Those of God's children who resist same sex attraction and win the victory over the world will begin to be rewarded the moment they take their last breath and ever so softly glide into the afterlife-- through the veil. Those who fail the test will have an awful sense of remorse and guilt sweep through through their hearts.

Paul O

That last part doesn't sound too bad. They'll probably get over their guilt pretty quick.

BTW, we're mammals. I just don't understand why God would create homosexual animals if he hates homosexuality so much...

[Paul Osborne]

Antishock,

You don’t have to understand. God’s ways are higher than man’s. Penguins are from the animal kingdom and haven’t the law of the human kingdom. For all I know the penguin's genes mutated-- I don’t know. God allows nature to take its course but that doesn’t give man any excuse to violate his laws notwithstanding gay penguins.

Paul O

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Feb 8 2004, 04:37 PM

I want to see our gay LDS members stop what they are doing and turn their lives around. They cannot be saved in their sins but they can be saved from their sins. Living a homosexual life is not normal but resisting a homosexual life is commendable and I think those who do will be rewarded 100 fold.

...........

Those of God's children who resist same sex attraction and win the victory over the world will begin to be rewarded the moment they take their last breath and ever so softly glide into the afterlife-- through the veil.

Very good statement Paul....I think the key word here is resisting.

I think that there are other issues in life that people have to deal with too; like USN said...everyone has his/her own demons to deal with....and for those who resist the temptations to do what they know is wrong in Gods eyes, or just wrong in their own eyes, should know that the eternal happiness that God will bestow upon them for the choices they made will be phenomenal.

Key words.....Resisting and Choices......

[Guest lt]

I agree with Halley being gay doesnt come in a form of a pill, however it is a choice....like drinking and dancing or anything else we do in life...

Antishock, do you truly believe that? The antishock I know is to smart to believe that kind of garbage..........

Laureltree

[Tr2]

Homosexuality goes against the principles of evolution and nowhere in the bible can anyone show me how God advocates homosexuality.

Do I understand it always, no. How ignorant is somebody that refuses to believe what they don't understand.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 8 2004, 07:26 PM

Homosexuality goes against the principles of evolution

Huh?

Here are the principles of evolution:

1. Evolution proceeds as changes (mutations) occur in the genetic code of an organism.

2. These mutations are 'tested' by the environment in which the organism exists.

3. Many (most) of the changes will be harmful to the organism, and it will die before the harmful genes are passed on to its offspring.

4. Occasionally, however, a gene combination will arise the actually improves the adaptation of the organism to its' particular environment and these genes are more likely to be passed on.

5. By this process, called 'natural selection', all life has branched.

How does homosexuality come in? Oh yeah - here it is:

Principle number 6. No queers.

Good thinking Trident, you're onto something.

[Tr2]

Evolution is formed on the principle of a species making itself stronger to survive. Homosexuality prevents a species from reproducing, thus halting its progress. If you want to kill all life, make it all homosexual. Am I wrong?

I'm just going to wait for you to disagree with me. I think you hate me so much you'll say anything to disagree. If I said shooting yourself wouldn't hurt, would you try and prove me wrong?

[Paul Osborne]

I can think of a better way to kill all life rather than making everyone homosexual. Let’s all stop having babies! My youngest daughter (age 11) poured water all over my office chair because she is mad at me for booting her brat dog out of the house. I had to change my clothes and switch chairs.

Kids! I’ll be glad when they all leave the house for good!

Paul O

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 8 2004, 10:00 PM

Evolution is formed on the principle of a species making itself stronger to survive. Homosexuality prevents a species from reproducing, thus halting its progress. If you want to kill all life, make it all homosexual. Am I wrong?

I'm just going to wait for you to disagree with me. I think you hate me so much you'll say anything to disagree. If I said shooting yourself wouldn't hurt, would you try and prove me wrong?

"Homosexuality is God's way of insuring that the truly gifted aren't burdened with children." Sam Austin

[USNationalist]

anti-

not a big deal if animals do it. Just like its not a big deal for them to have multiple partners.... not marry and get their constant fornicate on. It simply means it was an intended demon intended for some people to have to conqure. We are called to resist the lusts of the flesh- meaning there has to be somthing we are resisting. Just try thinking- im sure it will make since to you after a little bit.

[Guest antishock82003]

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong? Why would a god "pervert" a human on purpose, but then "test" him to see if he'll obey him? That seems mean and nasty to me. It doesn't make any sense.

[Tr2]

"Homosexuality is God's way of insuring that the truly gifted aren't burdened with children." Sam Austin

That made me laugh, thanks. A man who thinks children are a burden, what a remarkable person to quote.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Feb 8 2004, 04:37 PM

Those who have same sex attraction should not be ashamed. There is nothing immoral or unholy about those who suffer this condition (temptation too) because even Christ was tempted in all points and man must go through the fire of affliction in order to win the prize. I want to see our gay LDS members stop what they are doing and turn their lives around. They cannot be saved in their sins but they can be saved from their sins. Living a homosexual life is not normal but resisting a homosexual life is commendable and I think those who do will be rewarded 100 fold.

Paul O

I think your thoughts on this topic are very compassionate. However, LDS doctrine is very clear that no one can enter the highest level of the Celestial kingdom unless they are married in the temple. Would a true homosexual be expected to marry in this life? If so, wouldn't that be dreadfully unfair to the homosexual's spouse?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Behunin+Feb 8 2004, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Feb 8 2004, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Feb 8 2004, 10:00 PM

Evolution is formed on the principle of a species making itself stronger to survive. Homosexuality prevents a species from reproducing, thus halting its progress. If you want to kill all life, make it all homosexual. Am I wrong?

I'm just going to wait for you to disagree with me. I think you hate me so much you'll say anything to disagree. If I said shooting yourself wouldn't hurt, would you try and prove me wrong?

"Homosexuality is God's way of insuring that the truly gifted aren't burdened with children." Sam Austin

I love this Behunin!

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 9 2004, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 9 2004, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paul Osborne@Feb 8 2004, 04:37 PM

Those who have same sex attraction should not be ashamed. There is nothing immoral or unholy about those who suffer this condition (temptation too) because even Christ was tempted in all points and man must go through the fire of affliction in order to win the prize. I want to see our gay LDS members stop what they are doing and turn their lives around. They cannot be saved in their sins but they can be saved from their sins. Living a homosexual life is not normal but resisting a homosexual life is commendable and I think those who do will be rewarded 100 fold.

Paul O

I think your thoughts on this topic are very compassionate. However, LDS doctrine is very clear that no one can enter the highest level of the Celestial kingdom unless they are married in the temple. Would a true homosexual be expected to marry in this life? If so, wouldn't that be dreadfully unfair to the homosexual's spouse?

I wonder if it would depend upon how well the Homosexual controlled himself and prayed for his desire to be towards his spouse.

Luke 1: 37

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

[Cal]

Again, the mormon "God" is in trouble. The mormon position on homosexuality puts Him in hot water, logically speaking.

The problem is this: The mormon God thinks that homosexuality is an outrage, and its practice abominable. This same God is also the one that created all living things. Made them what they are physically.

Up until recently the mormons (and others) have claimed that it is not unjust for God to punish homosexual behavior because the homosexual has a choice, and that it is a life style choice, NOT AN INBORN OR GENETIC predispostion.

As long as there was no proof that homosexuality is genetic, the conservative religionist was home free, so to speak.

After all, no one would believe, in his right mind that God would make a sin of something HE, HIMSELF, created!

Now comes the twist---genetic studies of the brain, observations of animals in nature, and double blind twin studies prove that homosexuality and sexual orientation have a strong genetic component. In essense, science has proven that sexual orientation is largely inborn. In other words, GOD IS responsible for creating the conditions for what HE, according to some, turns around and calls reprehensible.

The "come back" that I sometimes hear to this is essentially this: Well, God creates heterosexuals too, and still requires THEM to control their reproductive instincts.

The problem with that argument is simply that some of us find it very difficult to believe that a just God would go to the extent of not just regulating how and when one should be sexual, BUT WHETHER A BEING CAN BE SEXUAL AT ALL. What kind of God creates beings that have no legitimate outlet for their sexuality? Not the one I believe in.

Bottom line: What some mormons (and others) want us to believe is that God would actually forbid someone from ever having sex at all. IOW--that it is OK for some people to be MONKS.

Well, that even contradicts another mormon doctrine which says that mormons don't believe in prohibiting marriage, like the catholics do to their priests. At least the Catholics have SOME precedent for requiring complete abstinance.

[Guest Starsky]

There is no contradiction except in your own mind.

Giving us weakness to control isn't a contradiction, it is a test. It is being given the world to over come...a challenge to gain dominion and power over one's enviroment, even body environment.

[Cal]

It's one thing to control a "weakness" and entirely another for forbid one to "be" what one has been created to be.

The gays I have know and talked to knew from very early on that they were not what their outward appearance dictated.That their feelings and desires were just as organic and real as straight peoples. It is too simplistic to simply say they have to control this "weakness". It is not a weakness, it is THEM.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Cal@Feb 9 2004, 01:39 PM

It's one thing to control a "weakness" and entirely another for forbid one to "be" what one has been created to be.

So it is a matter of determining the TRUE purpose for which we were created?

That is simple enough. We were created to become Gods. This is the road...over coming the physical world with the spiritual power from Christ.

Philip. 4: 13

13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

The problem here Cal, is that you speak strictly from a one dimensional perspective.

I am physical, therefore I must live according to all my physical wants and needs.

In the spiritual perspective....we are physical, and therefore must over come physical to become spiritually strong and successful. Because we believe this life is not for this life, but for the next which is most definitely spiritually based.

[Cal]

But Peace, that is exactly the point. Mormonism teaches that if gays behave according to how they have been created to be, they WON'T be able to achieve the highest level of the celestial kingdom. In essence, mormonism excludes gays from the same blessing as straights just because GOD HIMSELF created them that way. What kind of God is that?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Cal@Feb 9 2004, 03:04 PM

But Peace, that is exactly the point. Mormonism teaches that if gays behave according to how they have been created to be, they WON'T be able to achieve the highest level of the celestial kingdom. In essence, mormonism excludes gays from the same blessing as straights just because GOD HIMSELF created them that way. What kind of God is that?

I think you see that as they are created so they HAVE TO behave or live. Not so. That is the entire point.

Some people are born into abusive homes where they are 'created' to have unnatural urges to abuse/kill others.

They can over come that if they have a desire and 'knowledge' of the source for help.

The thing is this:

It isn't what happens to you, but how you deal with what happens to you, that makes you who you are.

[Guest lt]

Posted: Feb 9 2004, 04:54 AM

Consultant

Group: Members

Posts: 1192

Member No.: 18

Joined: 21-February 03

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong? Why would a god "pervert" a human on purpose, but then "test" him to see if he'll obey him? That seems mean and nasty to me. It doesn't make any sense.

This post has been edited by antishock82003 on Feb 9 2004, 04:55 AM

God doesnt pervert us, we do when we let satan into our hearts and home...God doesn't temp us in that way, we all know its the work of the adversary.........It amazes me how everything is always gods fault, be it left to man not to stand up and take responsibilities for his own choices and actions.