Sex, Science, Reporduction And Orentation

[Traveler]

I am concerned with the deteriorating relationship between society and its support of the core family (loving father and mother) as a necessary institution for the preservation of society. I am concerned for the following reasons:

1. The current declines in recognizing the importance of core families.

2. The concept that homosexual families should be as valued by society as much as core families.

3. The idea that the cognitive function of homosexuality (sexual orientation) is scientifically demonstrable to be preset in individuals prior to birth and is changeable by any intelligent cognitive learning process. In other words that scientific studies support the notion that the cognitive sexual functions are preset and cannot be altered or learned even with extreme methods.

Lets deal with each issue beginning with number one. In the 60's, American society produced a counter culture call the hippy movement. This movement was comprised of intellectual social dropouts. They touted drugs and an assault on the core family in a social experiment they called the “Free Love” movement. The concept of “Free Love” was the beginning of what was called the “sexual revolution”. Under the guise of freedom, participants of the “Free Love” movement introduced a new morality where reproductive relationships were glamorized to be more enjoyable without family responsibilities, commitments or sacrifices. The icons of the new social order under the sexual revolution banner were free uncommited individuals that sought nothing but their own pleasures. They scoffed at the responsibilities or cares of families and children.

The effect of the movement was rather debilitating among the women of the movement that found themselves pregnant with unwanted children. The result was a spinoff of the “Free Love” movement that recognized that women’s freedom was curtailed by children and pregnancies. The quick and easy solution was abortion on demand that gave rise to both the “Liberated Male” and “Liberated Female”. A Liberated Male was devoid of responsibilities, commitments or sacrifices of families and children. Likewise the Liberated Female was also devoid of responsibilities, commitments or sacrifices of families, home and children. The process of giving life to another generation was stripped of dignity and honor and what was left was plain and simple sex for play without consequences. Children were not considered human creatures while developing within the womb. This has always been a puzzle to me. If they are not human creatures then what kind of creatures are they? On demand abortion appears to me to be a strange hate of one’s self genetical identity. A hate so strong to justify the killing of a possible replication. Somehow society was convinced that by sacrificing one’s offspring is necessary in order for there to be true freedom and for culture to progress to an new enlightened level.

The result of this social rejection for the care of children has been staggering. In some parts of the country more children are killed through abortion than are allowed to live through birth, of those borne the majority will be born out of wedlock without the benefit of a loving father and mother. Even more will be raised in single parent homes as the family structure crumbles around them. So prevalent is this reversal in caring for children that the majority of children in the entire population base of the United States will not be raised by their father and mother together in a family unit. The breakup of families is the largest single cause of poverty in our country. The crime rate is highest among the children from broken homes. And the once great educational institution that lead the world has become a joke. In science the USA education is last among industrial nations. In geography only backward Mexico provides a worse understanding of geography through education..

The goose that lays the golden egg (a healthy intelligent next generation for society) is in critical need. I believe this is not a time to experiment any farther, it is a time to be concerned about the attitudes of society and the needs for society to nurture and preserve families with parents willing to sacrifice shellfish inclinations. It is time to turn society to once again allow for the benefit of children.

This then bring me to my next point: 2. The concept that homosexual families should be as valued by society as much as core families. For the life of me I do not understand why. I have begged for just one single reason expressing society’s need for homosexuality to survive and the only responses I have received is that I am not logical or scientific. I am told that I must produce a reason that homosexual partners are not beneficial to justify my scepticism. And no reason is offered why society must allow homosexual marriage. I am convinced that not even the proponents of homosexual relationships have even a remote clue of any possible benefit or need for society. I am very concerned when proponents of a notion want to force their unproven experiments on the rest of society without any logic as to why. I believe there is no real supporting need - NONE. The need does not exist. Without the need I do not think this is a time to experiment. Society can exist and thrive without any homosexuality. I am sorry if this truth offends anyone. I am sorry so many cannot accept this truth.

Now let us talk about scientific evidence concerning cognitive functions in humans. Pont #3. I have pointed to the work of such scientist as Pavlov and Skinner that have demonstrated that there are methods that show that even the lowest cognitive levels of learning can alter cognitive functions in humans. There are no studies in history to show “sexual orientation” as the single cognitive exception. But there is an interesting history concerning sexual orientation.

In 1974 the American Psychiatric Association declared that same sex reproductive behavior was not an illness and therefore is not to be treated. This did two things. First it ended any attempts to treat homosexuality and secondly it ended all research, funding of research, or publication of any research associated with homosexuality as a disorder. It is interesting that the 1974 declaration was not a result of any study nor was there any effort to scientifically provide any basis of the declaration for any scrutiny. It was simply a political motivated declaration without proper scientific backing. Some may disagree with my observation of a complete lack of scientific backing - and claim that the burden of scientific proof is with anyone that thinks cognitive activities can be altered. I though Pavlov and Skinner did that. Why is reproductive cognition different that all other cognitive activity?

There has been scientific studies that prove humans learn their cognitive activities - resent progress demonstrates that the arguments that the proponents of the notion that reproductive cognitive are preset and not learned are sadly mistaken, wrong and without scientific basis . Obviously the efforts of such science will not come from the American Psychiatric Association. Instead the scientific proof comes inadvertently from the science of neurology in the study of the human brain development and it functions during development. National Geographic in its March edition of this year details studies that disprove every notion perpetuated by apologist that the cognitive actions of homosexuality are preset and unlearnable.

First unscientific claim. Homosexuals realize their sexuality was determined by the time they were born. Quoting from National Geographic: “Her first memory is of the thrill of going to the store with her mother to pick out a special dress, pink and lacy. She was four years old. She does not recall anything earlier because her hippocampus, part of the limbic system deep in the brain that stores long-term memories, had not yet matured.” Scientific fact - no one is capable of remembering the first few years following birth. An individual claiming homosexual attractions from birth are making a claim that is impossible for them to have known.

Scientific fact - the first few years of a baby’s life marks the fastest learning in the life of humans. Quoting from National Geographic: [following birth] For the next 18 months, Corina was a learning machine while older brains need some sort of context for learning - a reason, such as a reward, to pay attention to one stimulus over another - baby brains soak up everything coming through their senses.” During the first years of a babies life they are learning and have no way to remember how learning happened. Young children learn what ever they are exposed to they do not exhibit choice in what they learn.

Scientific fact - in normal humans cognitive activity is established and reinforced by repetitive learning. Quoting from National Geographic: “Then, just weeks away from birth, the trend reversed. Groups of neurons competed with each other to recruit other neurons into expanding circuits with specific functions. Those that lost died off in a pruning process scientist call ‘neural Darwinism’.”

This neural Darwinism causes the brain to respond to cognitive learning activity taking place not just at birth but throughout the life of every individual. Not genetics or preset orientations that some claim define how the brain develops. (Note according to National Geographic this new understanding is less than 10 years old) Scientific fact - Differences in normal brain development is related to cognitive activity not the myth that because the brain is different in homosexuals because homosexuality is genetic and not learned. Quoting from National Geographic: “Blind people who read Braille show a remarkable increase in the size of the region of their somatosensory cortex - a region on the side of the brain that processes the sense of touch - devoted to their right index finger. Violin players show an analogous spread of the somatosensory region associated with the fingers of their left hand, which move above the neck of the instrument playing notes as opposed to those of their right hand, which merely holds the bow.”

Not all neural functions and learning are developed at the same time. Quoting from National Geographic: “Ten years ago most neuroscientists saw the brain as a kind of computer, developing fixed functions early,’ says Michael Merzenich of the University of California, San Francisco, a pioneer in understanding brain plasticity. ‘What we now appreciate is that the brain is continually revising itself throughout life.”

How does this play for individuals that are convinced prior to adulthood that they are homosexual? Quoting from National Geographic: “The last area of the brain to reach maturity is the prefrontal cortex, where the so-called executive brain resides - where we make social judgments, weigh alternatives, plan for the future and hold our behavior in check. ‘The executive brain doesn’t hit adult levels until the age of 25,’ says Jay Giedd of the National institute of Mental Health, one of the lead scientists of the neuroimaging studies. ‘At puberty, you have adult passions, sex drive, energy, and emotion, but the reining in doesn’t happen until much later.’ It is no wonder teenagers seem to lack good judgment or the ability to restrain impulses.”

This is why children, adolescents and young adults must be convinced of sexual experimentation before their brain is able to “weigh alternatives” and “hold behavior in check”. Encouraging cognitive sexual activity, especially experimentation with self sex (same sex) cognitive activities will cause their brain to develop (via neural Darwinism) to an infinity of the cognitive activity undergoing repetition. Since this activity takes place before their brain can weigh alternatives and hold behavior in check they will be convinced that this particular activity is beyond such executive functionality. Experimentation in children becomes method, method becomes habit and habit becomes addiction - a cycle completed and etched in to their developing neural complex before the prefrontal cortex has opportunity to develop and intelligently rein in the process leading to addiction causing them to think of it as an orientation.

Raising children to be open minded and to consider exploring sexuality without the gray matter mature enough to make judgments to who they are and to insure reason will be a decisive element in controlling the cognitive part of their reproductive activity, is plain and simple poor parenting. Such parents create a great danger of rendering their impressionable youth slaves to sexual passions rather than master of their cognitive self. Such bad judgement and lack of concern is a form of child abuse as much as refusing to educate children in other essential matters.

Again I repeat my objections.

1. For society to survive core families must be nurtured, sponsored and encouraged for society to survive. This includes institutionalizing and defining marriage between a man and a woman for the rearing of children. Society needs to cognitively prepare and provide incentive for responsible parents for the next generation to follow them. This is best done by the cycle of example of real parents throughout society living in a loving environment.

2. Core families with loving fathers and loving mothers need to be recognized as the single most superior method to insure a healthy, intelligent and able to control their urges, next generation.

3. Homosexuality ( instalment of same sex cognitive reproduction activity) is not preset at or near birth any more than any other cognitive activity. Science supports the notion that humans are an intelligent species capable of learning cognitive activity.

The Traveler

[Amillia]

If they are not human creatures then what kind of creatures are they?

Brilliant question! and very good piece of work Traveler!

[DisRuptive1]

The problem with point #1 doesn't lie with the fact that we allow homosexuality. Right now, we need to allow all families to prosper. If you are right in saying that a mother/father/child(ren) family is superior, then it will come out that way and the children in those families will grow up to be much more superior than their single role parent household.

Also you said infinity in your statements. I believe you meant affinity.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Mar 3 2005, 03:00 PM

The problem with point #1 doesn't lie with the fact that we allow homosexuality.  Right now, we need to allow all families to prosper.  If you are right in saying that a mother/father/child(ren) family is superior, then it will come out that way and the children in those families will grow up to be much more superior than their single role parent household.

Also you said infinity in your statements.  I believe you meant affinity.

There is good, better, best. What is wrong with identifying such?

When you are speaking about anyone's work, it is rated in these terms. Why not life style and family?

I fear we begin to melt all the lines between good and best so that no one has to really try to do best, only good because they will be put in the same light and catagory as best.

I don't care where you start the melt down of level diminishing distinctions, the attitude will spread to everything else. It always does.

Don't you see the difference between the ROCK and the sand? The sand shifts with whatever is moving upon it, the ROCK won't give no matter what.

Christ is the ROCK. The World is tolerance which is diminishing the difference between right and wrong.

Building a nation on the idea of 'whatever moves you' making good as wanted as best; is dangerous thinking. It puts us squarely in the sand ~ shiftying unstable sand.

[DisRuptive1]

America must be unstable then because this shifting sand theory of yours sounds just like another form of letting every man worshipping his own God. I'm sure homosexual people will worship a gay spirit or avatar of some such thing someday should there rights become compromised.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Traveler@Mar 2 2005, 06:39 PM

Society can exist and thrive without any homosexuality. I am sorry if this truth offends anyone. I am sorry so many cannot accept this truth.

I have felt this way for some time about brunettes. We can exist and thrive perfectly fine without them. So what's the deal? Why are they still around?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 3 2005, 07:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 3 2005, 07:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Mar 2 2005, 06:39 PM

Society can exist and thrive without any homosexuality.  I am sorry if this truth offends anyone.  I am sorry so many cannot accept this truth.

I have felt this way for some time about brunettes. We can exist and thrive perfectly fine without them. So what's the deal? Why are they still around?

I have to agree with you Curvette ~ being a blond myself! LOL

[Amillia]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Mar 3 2005, 06:33 PM

America must be unstable then because this shifting sand theory of yours sounds just like another form of letting every man worshipping his own God.  I'm sure homosexual people will worship a gay spirit or avatar of some such thing someday should there rights become compromised.

Actually being able to worship how, when and what you want is one of those ROCKS kind of things. Don't confuse the sand with the rocks. It is just like the agency rock. Everyone can sin or be righteous according to their own conscience as well. But when you mess with basic morals, diminishing the lines between what is right and wrong and calling evil good and good evil, you are messing with the rocks and chipping them into sand.

[sgallan]

What the heck, if some of your so-called theocratic values and morals, clash with my secular morals and values..... I'm up for the scrap. Whether it be political or otherwise. What the heck..... let the slaughter begin.

[Snow]

Why are some Mormons so obsessed with homosexuality?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 3 2005, 10:20 PM

What the heck, if some of your so-called theocratic values and morals, clash with my secular morals and values..... I'm up for the scrap. Whether it be political or otherwise. What the heck..... let the slaughter begin.

Thou shalt not kill is one of the rocks. You do over dramatize things.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 3 2005, 11:38 PM

Why are some Mormons so obsessed with homosexuality?

I think it is because they are trying to make like they are not morally sinful and receive the same blessings as the moral people.

[sgallan]

**** Thou shalt not kill is one of the rocks. You do over dramatize things.****

Odd. I didn't realize you were a pacifist. Well, if the people who believe like you do want to get rowdy about the debate, and show up for the scrap..... I am game.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 4 2005, 12:01 AM

**** Thou shalt not kill is one of the rocks. You do over dramatize things.****

Odd. I didn't realize you were a pacifist. Well, if the people who believe like you do want to get rowdy about the debate, and show up for the scrap..... I am game.

LOL :) I am the rowdiest person I know. Sorry.

[sgallan]

Threaten to hurt one of my close friends, or especially family, and be ready to fight to the death. Really. Heck, I had my wife tossed in jail to protect my kid. And I love her..... a lot. I am capable.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 4 2005, 12:18 AM

Threaten to hurt one of my close friends, or especially family, and be ready to fight to the death. Really. Heck, I had my wife tossed in jail to protect my kid. And I love her..... a lot. I am capable.

That sounds hard. You must be a very strong (inside and out) kind of guy.

[sgallan]

Pretty much. But I am also a little haunted by a guy I saw in the last minutes before he died in a traffic accident last month. By the school papers all over the road from his car I could tell he had a girl child about the same age as my kid. He was grey. Eyes opened. Alert, but oddly in shock as well (probably a weird effect of being drunk), and entirely body broken....not moaning or nothing. He was going to die really soon.... and I knew it. Said it to another bystander/helper. Five minutes later he was dead. It was weird and surreal. But I did stop and help as his car looked like it might catch on fire. It is weird that I was willing to risk harm for a soon to die guy. But you never know so I did. Most just drove by. I also had my daughter, and looking at the car I knew it was bad. I pulled way off the road and kept her away so she wouldn't see. I even pointed to a rock to distract her so she wouldn't see the feet under the tarp as we eventually drove away.

You know when I was an active skydiver occasionally a guy would "bounce". I always looked away and never ran out to "help" or "look". I knew better. The guy was dead. If I can help I will suck it up and do whatever. Otherwise that stuff haunts me.

[Amillia]

It is funny how things to do with our bodies living and dying seem to affect us on a permenant level. I remember the first time I saw a car accident when I was just little and the people were bleeding. It left an indelable impression on me for ever after.

Hope things start looking up for you. You deserve something good to happen soon.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 3 2005, 06:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 3 2005, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Mar 2 2005, 06:39 PM

Society can exist and thrive without any homosexuality.  I am sorry if this truth offends anyone.  I am sorry so many cannot accept this truth.

I have felt this way for some time about brunettes. We can exist and thrive perfectly fine without them. So what's the deal? Why are they still around?

You have taken my point out of context. Perhaps it was my fault in not expressing it correctly. Men and women involved in reproduction are necessary for society to survive. There is reason and need for a man and a woman to reproduce. Therefore society has reason and need to support marriage of a man and woman in marriage. The point is that there is no correspondent need for homosexuality.

There is need for genetic diversity - I disagree with the implication that genetic diversity likewise serves no purpose. This is the problem I have with apologist of homosexuality – they give untrue arguments. In essence they lie about what homosexuality is and make comparisons that are in every way false and do not apply. This troubles me. Convince my skepticism with truth please.

We are talking about cognitive activity. What I am suggesting is that the cognitive activity of homosexuals not be recognized in the same manner as the cognitive activity from which society is rewarded with another generation.

Now if we are going to argue over the notion of give us what we want because we want it and need not reason or logic – that is another approach but I am not so convinced. Mankind has created some of it’s greatest blunders with this approach to logic and reason.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 3 2005, 10:38 PM

Why are some Mormons so obsessed with homosexuality?

Homosexuality is a cognitive activity - Cognitive activities are learned.

It is not the point that there is homosexuality - the point is that the truth is being hidden and a lie told over and over again until the lie is believed instead of truth.

Therefore the question is what should someone do if they are aware of a lie. I am much more concerned with those that are so obsessed that they turn againt the truth and those that support it.

The Traveler

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Traveler+Mar 4 2005, 01:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Mar 4 2005, 01:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Mar 3 2005, 10:38 PM

Why are some Mormons so obsessed with homosexuality?

Homosexuality is a cognitive activity - Cognitive activities are learned.

It is not the point that there is homosexuality - the point is that the truth is being hidden and a lie told over and over again until the lie is believed instead of truth.

Therefore the question is what should someone do if they are aware of a lie. I am much more concerned with those that are so obsessed that they turn againt the truth and those that support it.

The Traveler

I agree. I read a study where they discussed the stages young people go through and how each one is impacting the end result of the adult human.

They showed how much of the reason young people start thinking of themselves in terms of homosexuality is because that is what they have been given as an explanation for different (normal) judgments they make about themselves from feed back they get from their peer groups.

It definitely is a cognitive choice, but most young people today do not understand the whole big picture of human developement ~ both physical and psychological.

[sgallan]

Hey Amillia -

Thanks for your earlier post. You are cool even if we don't agree on much. I take back and apologize for all of those mean things I said to you.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Traveler+Mar 4 2005, 11:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Mar 4 2005, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Mar 3 2005, 10:38 PM

Why are you so obsessed with what other people do with their genitals?

[Snow]

Warning: This is what happens to people who fixate on other people's sexuality:

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 4 2005, 09:22 PM

Hey Amillia -

Thanks for your earlier post. You are cool even if we don't agree on much. I take back and apologize for all of those mean things I said to you.

I know you are a sweet guy with a rough row to hoe. Hang in there ~ and not to worry about our disagreements. It just makes for a better understanding of the world we live in.