So Now That There Is This Complete Awkward Silance

[Guest &lusername&gt]

so...

what doi you think of about streriotypes? ya know that they exist, and that EVERYONE gets labled? but comeone.....whats the piont. I dress gothic. because of that when i made the annoncemnt that i was in Boy Scouts, everyone was so shocked. (haha you should have seen the reaction of my teacher when he found out i was a member of the church ) and whats with that? i have had so many people tell me they thought i would have been some mean drugged up loser when they met me, but were surprised to find out that i wasn't thos ethings.

gerrrr

[Lindy]

QUOTE  I am the hottest person i know. If i was a guy i would be all over myself!

So User...you are a male? and congrats on being comfortable with who you are.

[Setheus]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM

QUOTE  I am the hottest person i know. If i was a guy i would be all over myself!

So User...you are a male? and congrats on being comfortable with who you are.

No, she is a SHE who thinks if "she" could come out of herself as a second person (that is male) she would think she (herself) was hot.

Geeeez, Grown-ups!

[Guest &lusername&gt]

no your both wrong. I am a GUY i am Joshua Pillow. ther quote is from my friend Brittany W. she is a gal. she said that on the phone one day

lol

[Setheus]

How can we both be wrong? Are you "A-sexual"?

[Lindy]

Originally posted by <username>@Mar 19 2005, 03:01 PM

no your both wrong. I am a GUY i am Joshua Pillow. ther quote is from my friend Brittany W. she is a gal. she said that on the phone one day

lol

soooo how can I be wrong? By asking if you were a male? Or are you NOT comfortable with who you are with the goth?

Geeeez, Kids!

[Writer_Chick1213]

Stereotypes suck but there is nothing we can do about them. Its just peoples natural instinct to try and define and categorize things, so people end up with a label. I always get the label of snob because I don't go to the drinking parties at school and i'm really shy and quiet. Outside of school in like church I somehow get labelled as a "troubled teen" which makes no sense cuz thats the exact opposite of me. My family doesn't exactly fit into the typical mormon family category so everyone expects me to get hooked on drugs, become pregnant, and drop out of highschool. lol i'm totally the black sheep in my ward. Even though I haven't done anything...its funny.

[Jenda]

I know that this is the youth board, but I gotta say this......................

My daughter (15) does goth, and when she first started doing it, I was appalled. She seemed so depressed most of the time, and stuff. We have talked about it quite a few times, and come to an understanding. I know that as long as she is studying hard (and she is in AP classes at school), and she is interested in pursuing her cello (hardly a favorite among drug addicts ), then it is OK. Now we even go shopping together and I buy her spiky leather chokers, etc. LOL.

[Guest &lusername&gt]

if i give yuo my number will u talk sense into my parents?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by <username>@Mar 21 2005, 04:53 PM

if i give yuo my number will u talk sense into my parents?

I doubt that they will appreciate anyone interfering, but I will keep you in my prayers. (And maybe you can get your parents to read that post. B) )

[Guest &lusername&gt]

Yeah thanks. I fit pretty weel into the goth profile quite weel, u am mostly depressed, all that good stuff, but i dont have peircings, i am strait-edge (i dont have sex or smoke or drink) and i am acctully a very nice kid once ya get to kno me, but my dad is a tyrant.

[DisRuptive1]

If you ask 10 goths what it means to be goth, you'll get 10 different answers. Although they all seem to shop at hot topic and other like stores so maybe that's what it means to be goth

[Setheus]

I just got my 4month old Doberman a new black leather spike collar. Does that mean I have a goth dobe? B)

[Guest &lusername&gt]

-shakes head- Jerk

[Setheus]

Originally posted by <username>@Mar 25 2005, 08:23 AM

-shakes head- Jerk

What?!? Why does that make me a jerk? I see people in the pet store all the time buying spike collars (and not for their dogs). I actually do own a doberman pinscher and in fact got a spike collar for him. I was being playful but you got all offended

[Guest &lusername&gt]

hmm, lets see, who here thinks he posted that stuped remark with completly inocent intentsions

[Jenda]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Mar 23 2005, 03:51 PM

If you ask 10 goths what it means to be goth, you'll get 10 different answers. Although they all seem to shop at hot topic and other like stores so maybe that's what it means to be goth

There is a book at Hot Topic that describes, in detail, the different types of Goth. It is quite humorous. B) My daughter and I looked through it last time we were there and had a good time.

(Sometimes I find it surprising that she will be seen with me. I thought that most 15 year olds hated being seen with their parents.)

[Setheus]

Some person, "Why do you dress gothic?"

Gothic person, "So I can be myself, an individual, a non-conformist. Duh!"

Some person, "Oh, you mean like the other 5,000,000 goths out there?"

Now that was not written with innocent intentions. My last post ref my dog's spike collar was.

Do you even know what a real goth was?

Here, let me enlighten you. You may be supprised that it wasn't a teenager with face paint and black clothes jamming to Manson.

While I think the "goth" style can be creative and even cool looking its not something to be revered as a true Goth.

---------------------------------------------------------

History

Our only source for early Gothic history is Jordanes' Getica, (published 551), a condensation of the lost twelve-volume history of the Goths written in Italy by Cassiodorus. Jordanes may not even have had the work at hand to consult from, and this early information should be treated with the highest degree of caution. Cassiodorus was well placed to write of Goths, for he was an essential minister of Theodoric the Great, who apparently had heard some of the Gothic songs that told of their traditional origins, related in turn by Jordanes with the remark "for so the story is generally told in their early songs, in almost historic fashion." The Gothic bards accompanied themselves on a stringed instrument that Latin writers associated with the cithara, which was more familiar to them.

They were settled for some time in the Vistula Basin (called Gothiscandza by Jordanes), from where they migrated towards the south-east. They battled with, and temporarily subjugated, the ancestors of the Slavs (there were many Gothic loanwords in proto-Slavic), who lived between the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea and ultimately settled in 'Scythia' a vast undefined region that includes modern Ukraine and Belarus (called Oium by Jordanes). A united tribe until the third century, it was during that period that they split into the eastern Goths or Ostrogoths and the western Goths or Visigoths.

Though many of the fighting nomads who followed them were to prove more bloody, the Goths were feared because the captives they took in battle were sacrificed to their god of war, Tyz [1] (http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_03.php)(the one-armed Tyr), and the captured arms hung in trees as a token-offering. Their kings and priests came from a separate aristocracy, according to Cassiodorus/Jordanes, and their mythic kings of ancient times were honored as gods. Their mythic lawgiver, named Dicineus, traditionally dated about the 1st century BC, ordered their laws, which they possessed by the 6th century in written form and called belagines.

A force of Goths launched one of the first major "barbarian" invasions of the Roman Empire in 267. A year later, they suffered a devastating defeat at the Battle of Naissus and were driven back across the Danube River by 271. This group then settled on the other side of the Danube from Roman territory and established an independent kingdom centered on the abandoned Roman province of Dacia, as the Visigoths. In the meantime, the Goths still in Ukraine established a vast and powerful kingdom along the Black Sea. This group became known as the Ostrogoths.

The Goths were briefly reunited under one crown in the early sixth century under the Ostrogothic king Theodoric the Great, who became regent of the Visigothic kingdom for nearly two decades.

For the later history of the Goths, see Visigoths and Ostrogoths.

Origins

After having introduced Scandinavia and its nations (for a discussion, see Scandza), Jordanes recounted:

Now from this island of Scandza, as from a hive of races or a womb of nations, the Goths are said to have come forth long ago under their king, Berig by name. As soon as they disembarked from their ships and set foot on the land, they straightway gave their name to the place. And even to-day it is said to be called Gothiscandza.

This account has been discussed for a long time. Although no alternative theory has been proposed for the appearance of Germanic tribes in northern Poland, some historians, such as Heather, doubt that the Goths originated in Scandinavia. This is due to the fact that, disregarding Jordanes, the earliest literary evidence for the Goths (Tacitus and Ptolemy) puts them at the Vistula in 1st century AD. However, besides Jordanes' account, there is both linguistic and archaeological support for the Scandinavian origin.

Archaeology

In Poland, the material culture associated with these Goths (or better Gotones) is typically identified with the Wielbark/Willenberg culture[2] (http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/archweb/gazociag/title5.htm). During the late Nordic Bronze Age and early Pre-Roman Iron Age (ca 600 BC - ca 300 BC), this area had strong influences from southern Scandinavia, which made the Wielbark culture closely related to that of southern Sweden[3] (http://www.arkeologi.uu.se/publications/opia/gothicabstract.htm). During this period the warm and dry climate of southern Scandinavia (2-3 degrees warmer than today) deteriorated considerably, which not only dramatically changed the flora, but forced people to change their way of living and to leave settlements. The Goths are believed to have crossed the Baltic Sea towards the end of this period, ca 300 BC and later. In the traditional province of Ostrogothia, in Sweden, there appears to have been a general depopulation during this period. Modern archaeological research consequently supports the Scandinavian origin of the Goths and the authenticity of their tradition.

However, the Gothic culture also appears to have had continuity from earlier cultures in the area, suggesting that the immigrants mixed with earlier populations, perhaps providing their separate aristocracy. This scenario would make their migration across the Baltic similar to many other population movements in history. This culture shifted south-eastwards towards the Black Sea area from the mid-2nd century. There, they appear to have imposed themselves as the rulers of the local, probably Slavic, Chernyakhov Culture (ca 200 - ca 400).

There is archaeological and historical evidence of continued contacts between the Goths and the Scandinavians during their migrations.

Linguistics

According to at least one theory, there are closer linguistic connections between Gothic and Old Norse than between Gothic and the West Germanic languages (see East Germanic languages and Gothic). Moreover, there were two tribes that probably are closely related to the Goths and remained in Scandinavia, the Geats and the Gotlanders, and these tribes were considered to be Goths by Jordanes (see Scandza).

The word "Geats" (Anglo-Saxon Geatas) and the Swedish word "Götar" (East Norse Gøtar) both represent the expected outcome of proto-Germanic *Gauta-. This form is related to the reconstructed root *Gut- which seems to be the origin of "Goth," which appears earliest in forms such as "Gutthones" in Greek ethnography.

Philologists have reconstructed *Gut-þiuda, the "Gothic people," as a likely original form of the name. This form also appears in the Gothic Calendar (aikklesjons fullaizos ana gutþiudai gabrannidai). Besides the Goths, this way of naming a tribe is only found in Sweden (see Suiones and Suiþioð).

The reconstructed root *Gut- is identical to that of Gotland, an island in the Baltic Sea, and in older scholarship the dialect of Gotland was regarded as a form of Gothic. The most famous example is that both Gutnish and Gothic used the word lamb for both young and adult sheep. Still, some claim that Gutnish is not closer to Gothic than any other Germanic dialect. The fact is that virtually all of those phonetic and grammatical features that characterize the North Germanic languages as a separate branch of the Germanic language family (not to mention the features that distinguish various Norse dialects) seem to have evolved at a later stage than the one preserved in Gothic. Gothic in turn, while being an extremely archaic form of Germanic in most respects, has nevertheless developed a certain number of unique features that it shares with no other Germanic language and certainly not with Old Norse (see Gothic language).

However, this does not exclude the possibility of the Goths, the Geats and the Gotlanders being related as tribes. Similarly, the Saxon dialects of Germany are hardly closer to Anglo-Saxon than any other West Germanic language that hasn't undergone the High German consonant shift (see Grimm's law, but the tribes themselves are definitely identical. The Jutes (Dan. jyder) of Jutland (Dan. Jylland, in Western Danmark) are at least etymologically identical to the Jutes that came from that region and invaded Britain together with the Angles and the Saxons in the 5th century AD. Nevertheless, there are no remaining written sources to associate the Jutes of Jutlandia with anything but North Germanic dialects, or the Jutes of Britain with anything but West Germanic dialects. Thus, language is not always the best criterion for tribal or ethnic tradition and continuity.

Interestingly, the Gotlanders (Gutar) did have oral traditions of a mass migration towards southern Europe written down in the Gutasaga. If the facts are related, that would be a unique case of a tradition that survived in more than a thousand years and that actually pre-dates most of the major splits in the Germanic language family.

References

Carlo Alberto Mastrelli in Volker Bierbauer et al, I Goti, Milan: Electa Lombardia, Elemond Editori Associati, 1994.

Graf E.C. Oxenstierna, Die Urheimat der Goten. Leipzig, Mannus-Buecherei 73, 1945 (later printed in 1948).

Bell-Fialkoff, A., The Role of Migration in the History of the Eurasian Steppe, London: Macmillan, 2000.

Findeisen, Joerg-Peter, Schweden - Von den Anfaengen bis zur Gegenwart, Regensburg: Verlag Friedrich Pustet, 1998.

Hermodsson, Lars, Goterna - ett krigafolk och dess bibel, Stockholm, Atlantis, 1993.

Nordgren, I., Goterkällan - om goterna i Norden och på kontinenten, Skara: Vaestergoetlands museums skriftserie nr 30, 2000.

Rodin, L. - Lindblom, V. - Klang, K., Gudaträd och västgötska skottkungar - Sveriges bysantiska arv, Göteborg: Tre böcker, 1994.

Schaetze der Ostgoten, Stuttgart: Theiss, 1995. Studia Gotica - Die eisenzeitlichen Verbindungen zwischen Schweden und Suedosteuropa - Vortraege beim Gotensymposion im Statens Historiska Museum, Stockholm 1970.

Tacitus, Germania, (with introduction and commentary by J.B. Rives),Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1999. Other works:

Kaliff, Anders. 2001. Gothic Connections. Contacts between eastern Scandinavia and the southern Baltic coast 1000 BC – 500 AD. Carlo Alberto Mastrelli in Volker Bierbauer et al, I Goti, Milan: Electa Lombardia, Elemond Editori

[Setheus]

WOW! I was super bored to post that.

[Guest &lusername&gt]

Dude,

I kno what the history is. But modern gothic culture isn't that

[Setheus]

like "Neo-Nazi"? Its so totally different but exactley the same?

J/K

Why don't u enlighten me then. I would like to know your out take on "modern goth".

[Setheus]

Well?....

[Guest Yediyd]

WOW! I was super bored to post that.

Good! I don't feel so bad about being too bored to read it!

[ninjahobbit8]

Have you noticed all the people that were goths are now emo? But then again, all the goths that were in my school were poser goths, so i guess it was just easyer for them to be emo! But i haven't seen a goth in forever! I think they've died out.

by the by, emo is short for emotional. My mom never heard the term before, so i had to explan it to her.

[Annabelli]

Have you noticed all the people that were goths are now emo? But then again, all the goths that were in my school were poser goths, so i guess it was just easyer for them to be emo! But i haven't seen a goth in forever! I think they've died out.

by the by, emo is short for emotional. My mom never heard the term before, so i had to explan it to her.

The Goth's are the Goth's and the Emo's are the Emo's. The Goth's graduated.