Sealings?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Apr 6 2005, 10:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Apr 6 2005, 10:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 5 2005, 04:23 PM

I think it interesting, that I thought that if she did get to have the same level as I did, that I had no real motivation to stay pure ~ I could just always repent later and move right back to the top. Of course, as I see it now, she will get to the top, but not as quickly as I do. She won't have the advantage though she repented, she spent her inheritence and won't get another.

What a crazy attitude. I imagine you were fairly young when you asked this question, so I hope you have moved past the attitude that somehow "sinning" is fun and some kind of a reward. The fact that you could get up every morning, look in the mirror and feel good about yourself and the choices you made are a reward for you. Our motivation should be to obey the Lord because we LOVE and trust him, not because some great reward awaits us. I doubt your friend felt very good about herself through those times. I would think you would be happy to know that repentence is available to everyone who sins (which is all of us), and that, yes, we eventually can all have the same reward. I think your Stake President was dead wrong in this. Doesn't he know the parable of the field laborers?

As far as the 'Inheritance" being spent, the prodigal son would not have received the same reward as the older brother no matter what he did. The oldest son received the Lion's share of the Father's wealth ALWAYS, unless he did something to disinherit himself. So this parable can't be talking about losing eternal inheritance because the best inheritance wasn't available to him at the start. No matter what he did, he wouldn't have received as much as his brother. The lesson is about rejoicing at the return of the lost soul.

You totally misread it and put your own interpretation of my attitudes there ~ to each their own!

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 12:03 PM

You totally misread it and put your own interpretation of my attitudes there ~ to each their own!

If she misread it, so did I. I think it's an absolutely WACKY way to look at things! IMO, from an LDS or not, your SP was delusional. From what I've read and understand, Jesus Christ does not work that way.

Nice way to put yourself above others though!

[Amillia]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Apr 6 2005, 11:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Apr 6 2005, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 12:03 PM

You totally misread it and put your own interpretation of my attitudes there ~ to each their own!

If she misread it, so did I. I think it's an absolutely WACKY way to look at things! IMO, from an LDS or not, your SP was delusional. From what I've read and understand, Jesus Christ does not work that way.

Nice way to put yourself above others though!

I can't be held responsible for what you see in my posts. B) In fact ~ maybe you should be held responsible. In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

[Amillia]

Anyway, I can see why my Stake President said they didn't teach this ~ no guilty party would want to hear it.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 12:30 PM

In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

I hate to burst your bubble, but I was also a pure and delightful virgin on my wedding night. I never thought that I was more deserving of an eternal reward for that than my non virgin friends. In fact I had a few who I felt were far more "righteous" than I was. They just messed up in different ways than I did, but we were all sinners in one way or another. I just never worried about it. They paid their price with their own remorse. I would never expect a just and loving God to punish them eternally for a moment of bad judgement on this earth.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Apr 6 2005, 02:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Apr 6 2005, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 12:30 PM

In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

I hate to burst your bubble, but I was also a pure and delightful virgin on my wedding night. I never thought that I was more deserving of an eternal reward for that than my non virgin friends. In fact I had a few who I felt were far more "righteous" than I was. They just messed up in different ways than I did, but we were all sinners in one way or another. I just never worried about it. They paid their price with their own remorse. I would never expect a just and loving God to punish them eternally for a moment of bad judgement on this earth.

Interestingly enough, most of my posts on this thread state that very thing ~ and the opposing view, coming from a guy on this board who is in leadership, disagrees with ya.

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Amillia+Apr 6 2005, 08:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Apr 6 2005, 08:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -curvette@Apr 6 2005, 02:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 12:30 PM

In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

I hate to burst your bubble, but I was also a pure and delightful virgin on my wedding night. I never thought that I was more deserving of an eternal reward for that than my non virgin friends. In fact I had a few who I felt were far more "righteous" than I was. They just messed up in different ways than I did, but we were all sinners in one way or another. I just never worried about it. They paid their price with their own remorse. I would never expect a just and loving God to punish them eternally for a moment of bad judgement on this earth.

Interestingly enough, most of my posts on this thread state that very thing ~ and the opposing view, coming from a guy on this board who is in leadership, disagrees with ya.

Amillia,

I am not sure if you are referring to me (if you are, you have my permission to mention me by name)...but I would have to agree with Curvette on this one.

The scriptures teach us that if we truly repent, exercise faith in Christ, are baptized....receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost...are sins are forgiven and forgotten.

I think I had mentioned before on this board, maybe not...but my wife and I have been together since 5th grade. We went steady in 5th, again in 7th grade...she got pregnant the summer after 9th grade. She was not a member of the church. She studied, took the discussions....and was baptized. She has lived a wonderfully righteous life (IMO) and she has worked hard at home and at church. She has sacrificed tremendously. The Lord has long since forgiven her for that transgression many years ago. It will not be held against her or me.

IMO..your SP was coming from left field with his comments. Oh well, it will just give me yet another question to ask my SP.

Amillia, please do not misunderstand my position. I believe in the atonement of Christ. I believe in repentance and forgiveness. I also believe in accountability and righteous judgement by our Lord. The church does not believe in a "perpetual second chance" theory.

The scriptures are crystal clear on what we need to do, and when we need to do it...and the consequences both good and ill that will come from it.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 07:50 PM

Interestingly enough, most of my posts on this thread state that very thing ~ and the opposing view, coming from a guy on this board who is in leadership, disagrees with ya.

I don't recall him disagreeing with me on this. He was disagreeing with YOU on the doctrine of progressing from kingdom to kingdom. I merely wrote, after hearing your argument, that you certainly have enough evidence from past authorities to believe that, in spite of more current authoritative arguments to the contrary. I think there is pretty good evidence to support both views. I don't see the harm in either belief--it doesn't hurt anyone or lift anyone above another to believe either train of thought.

<<I think it interesting, that I thought that if she did get to have the same level as I did, that I had no real motivation to stay pure ~ I could just always repent later and move right back to the top. Of course, as I see it now, she will get to the top, but not as quickly as I do. She won't have the advantage though she repented, she spent her inheritence and won't get another.>>

This is what I don't understand. You feel that a woman who lost her virginity before her wedding night deserves to be punished eternally in spite of her repentence? I don't understand the "advantage" theory to personal righteousness, or the importance of getting to the top first. Life isn't a competition. It's about getting ALL of Heavenly Father's children back to Him.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Amillia+Mar 24 2005, 12:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Mar 24 2005, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 22 2005, 03:18 PM

What good is someone being sealed to you if one of you ends up in a different glory?

The promise is what good it is. There is a future even in Heaven. You know that an eternity is only 5 billion years or so, right? Well, there are keys given in the temple which give the power to move from one kingdom to the next as you progress ~ because there is progression even after this life, for everyone.

The punishment for those who don't do what they should according to the knowledge given them is: They will be lagging a bit behind ~ and just as your married children aren't under your roof here, (hopefully) they won't be there either ~ if you are in a higher kingdom you will be able to visit them as often as you like ~ They just won't be able to pop in on you ~ :)

Amillia,

With all due repect, this is all speculation, even in the Mormon church. There is no church doctrine as to what exactly goes on in the hereafter with regard to each of these kingdoms. You hear so much contradictory stuff, even from GA's that there is no way to nail it down in terms of actual doctrine, so it is important, especially when talking to non-mormons to preface such remarks with "Now this is just my opinion, and not church doctrine".

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Apr 6 2005, 09:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Apr 6 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by -curvette@Apr 6 2005, 02:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 12:30 PM

In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

I hate to burst your bubble, but I was also a pure and delightful virgin on my wedding night. I never thought that I was more deserving of an eternal reward for that than my non virgin friends. In fact I had a few who I felt were far more "righteous" than I was. They just messed up in different ways than I did, but we were all sinners in one way or another. I just never worried about it. They paid their price with their own remorse. I would never expect a just and loving God to punish them eternally for a moment of bad judgement on this earth.

Interestingly enough, most of my posts on this thread state that very thing ~ and the opposing view, coming from a guy on this board who is in leadership, disagrees with ya.

Amillia,

I am not sure if you are referring to me (if you are, you have my permission to mention me by name)...but I would have to agree with Curvette on this one.

The scriptures teach us that if we truly repent, exercise faith in Christ, are baptized....receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost...are sins are forgiven and forgotten.

I think I had mentioned before on this board, maybe not...but my wife and I have been together since 5th grade. We went steady in 5th, again in 7th grade...she got pregnant the summer after 9th grade. She was not a member of the church. She studied, took the discussions....and was baptized. She has lived a wonderfully righteous life (IMO) and she has worked hard at home and at church. She has sacrificed tremendously. The Lord has long since forgiven her for that transgression many years ago. It will not be held against her or me.

IMO..your SP was coming from left field with his comments. Oh well, it will just give me yet another question to ask my SP.

Amillia, please do not misunderstand my position. I believe in the atonement of Christ. I believe in repentance and forgiveness. I also believe in accountability and righteous judgement by our Lord. The church does not believe in a "perpetual second chance" theory.

The scriptures are crystal clear on what we need to do, and when we need to do it...and the consequences both good and ill that will come from it.

Do you understand the inheritence and how it can't be given again when it is spent? According to JFSmith, and other prophets.....your wife and yourself will not receive Godhood, but will only be servants in that kingdom.

It isn't a matter of repenting and being atoned for.....it is a matter of the used up inheritence.....think of King David who lost his throne....yet he repented all of his life....

This isn't my teachings....it is the prophets'....

And I don't think you understood my post about the 'second' chance idea. I think a second chance would be coming back to this earth....and no one gets that....

But progression isn't a second chance....it is a doctrine....taught even by prophets....about progressing within the kingdoms.....and if progression is allowed....it isn't a second chance....it is just a harder road to gain what you could have gained much easier....

I don't think you are considering all the teachings on this subject....you have closed the door....

So....lets just leave it here...

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Cal+Apr 6 2005, 11:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Apr 6 2005, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Mar 24 2005, 12:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 22 2005, 03:18 PM

What good is someone being sealed to you if one of you ends up in a different glory?

The promise is what good it is. There is a future even in Heaven. You know that an eternity is only 5 billion years or so, right? Well, there are keys given in the temple which give the power to move from one kingdom to the next as you progress ~ because there is progression even after this life, for everyone.

The punishment for those who don't do what they should according to the knowledge given them is: They will be lagging a bit behind ~ and just as your married children aren't under your roof here, (hopefully) they won't be there either ~ if you are in a higher kingdom you will be able to visit them as often as you like ~ They just won't be able to pop in on you ~ :)

Amillia,

With all due repect, this is all speculation, even in the Mormon church. There is no church doctrine as to what exactly goes on in the hereafter with regard to each of these kingdoms. You hear so much contradictory stuff, even from GA's that there is no way to nail it down in terms of actual doctrine, so it is important, especially when talking to non-mormons to preface such remarks with "Now this is just my opinion, and not church doctrine".

I did exactly that.... I said: Here is how I see it:

So I don't know that anyone here is really reading my posts....

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 02:30 PM

I can't be held responsible for what you see in my posts. B) In fact ~ maybe you should be held responsible. In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

Right Amilia, I wish I could be JUST like you! Seriously though, that is the whole reason for the atonement - Jesus died on the cross so our sins would be forgiven. When we ask for forgiveness and live the way we believe is the right way, we have a 'clean slate'.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Apr 7 2005, 06:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Apr 7 2005, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 6 2005, 02:30 PM

I can't be held responsible for what you see in my posts. B) In fact ~ maybe you should be held responsible. In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it.

Could that be the problem here?

Right Amilia, I wish I could be JUST like you! Seriously though, that is the whole reason for the atonement - Jesus died on the cross so our sins would be forgiven. When we ask for forgiveness and live the way we believe is the right way, we have a 'clean slate'.

The atonement doesn't replace the inheritence. It only takes away the sin. It was once demonstrated to me by a leader with two bottles and two bags of beads. One bag was full of white beads for good things we did, and one was full of black beads for what we did wrong/sins. ~

The two bottles were empty and represented our lives when we are born. He began putting in beads of both colors as he listed things we normally do in our lives.

He had one bottle who kept all the commandments ~ but who committed a few sins like an occassional lie etc. The other bottle committed a few bigger sins (which made it receive more black beads) but who still did some good things.

After the bottles were full, he demonstrated the effect of repentence by taking out all the black beads. The bottle which had the most black beads removed, was almost half empty, while the bottle that had the lesser sins removed was almost completely full.

Taking away our sins does not replace or fill up that which was lost. It only takes away the sins.

Sins cause damage. Some effects of sin cannot be removed by simply repenting and having the atonement.

I think D&C 130:18-19 is trying to teach that principle.

[Guest curvette]

Amillia, I truly feel sorry for you. I think you completely misinterpret (or twist) doctrine in these matters. I'm glad you are not a man, and can't damage countless people's psyche by teaching these harmful false doctrines. If you truly believe these things, I think you need counseling.

[Cal]

Originally posted by curvette@Apr 7 2005, 08:04 AM

Amillia, I truly feel sorry for you. I think you completely misinterpret (or twist) doctrine in these matters. I'm glad you are not a man, and can't damage countless people's psyche by teaching these harmful false doctrines. If you truly believe these things, I think you need counseling.

Curvy,

I completely agree with you. These off-base type analogies regarding repentance seem rampant in the Church. The other one I heard is the "nail" analogy--you can remove the nail, but he hole remains--this is supposed to represent repentence. I think these kind of things are invented by people who want to appear more rightous than the repentant by putting themselves a little above the repented sinner.

The scriptures clearly say that "I, the Lord, remember them no more"--refering to our repented sins.

Amillia---if God "remembers them no more", then who are you to insist He does. And if He "remembers them no more", why should we? And where did Jesus EVER say that the repented sinner is less than those "white-beaners" like you. No offense intended.

[pushka]

Originally posted by Cal+Apr 6 2005, 10:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Apr 6 2005, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Mar 24 2005, 12:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 22 2005, 03:18 PM

What good is someone being sealed to you if one of you ends up in a different glory?

The promise is what good it is. There is a future even in Heaven. You know that an eternity is only 5 billion years or so, right? Well, there are keys given in the temple which give the power to move from one kingdom to the next as you progress ~ because there is progression even after this life, for everyone.

The punishment for those who don't do what they should according to the knowledge given them is: They will be lagging a bit behind ~ and just as your married children aren't under your roof here, (hopefully) they won't be there either ~ if you are in a higher kingdom you will be able to visit them as often as you like ~ They just won't be able to pop in on you ~ :)

Amillia,

With all due repect, this is all speculation, even in the Mormon church. There is no church doctrine as to what exactly goes on in the hereafter with regard to each of these kingdoms. You hear so much contradictory stuff, even from GA's that there is no way to nail it down in terms of actual doctrine, so it is important, especially when talking to non-mormons to preface such remarks with "Now this is just my opinion, and not church doctrine".

I'm not really reading all of the posts in this thread anymore, however I am pleased that Cal has finally put my mind at rest regarding 'the hereafter', that it is not Church Doctrine, but speculation...I have been asking for 'proof' of the Mormon view of the hereafter for a while now, and have not received any...Thank you Cal.

[pushka]

Just read a little of the last few posts regarding the atonement, and the beliefs of Amillia...

Curvy, Cal and Shanstress 70 I agree with you entirely.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette@Apr 7 2005, 09:04 AM

Amillia, I truly feel sorry for you.  I think you completely misinterpret (or twist) doctrine in these matters.  I'm glad you are not a man, and can't damage countless people's psyche by teaching these harmful false doctrines.  If you truly believe these things, I think you need counseling.

You silly woman! I have only been criticized for the doctrines which were taught to me by my leaders!! Great Scot!

What does that say about you people? Don't you listen to your leaders? Do you make up your own endings just to satisfy yourselves?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by pushka+Apr 7 2005, 09:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushka @ Apr 7 2005, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Apr 6 2005, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by -Amillia@Mar 24 2005, 12:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 22 2005, 03:18 PM

What good is someone being sealed to you if one of you ends up in a different glory?

The promise is what good it is. There is a future even in Heaven. You know that an eternity is only 5 billion years or so, right? Well, there are keys given in the temple which give the power to move from one kingdom to the next as you progress ~ because there is progression even after this life, for everyone.

The punishment for those who don't do what they should according to the knowledge given them is: They will be lagging a bit behind ~ and just as your married children aren't under your roof here, (hopefully) they won't be there either ~ if you are in a higher kingdom you will be able to visit them as often as you like ~ They just won't be able to pop in on you ~ :)

Amillia,

With all due repect, this is all speculation, even in the Mormon church. There is no church doctrine as to what exactly goes on in the hereafter with regard to each of these kingdoms. You hear so much contradictory stuff, even from GA's that there is no way to nail it down in terms of actual doctrine, so it is important, especially when talking to non-mormons to preface such remarks with "Now this is just my opinion, and not church doctrine".

I'm not really reading all of the posts in this thread anymore, however I am pleased that Cal has finally put my mind at rest regarding 'the hereafter', that it is not Church Doctrine, but speculation...I have been asking for 'proof' of the Mormon view of the hereafter for a while now, and have not received any...Thank you Cal.

You are asking people. Ask the Lord.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by pushka@Apr 7 2005, 09:25 AM

Just read a little of the last few posts regarding the atonement, and the beliefs of Amillia...

Curvy, Cal and Shanstress 70 I agree with you entirely.

It will be agreeing with the Lord that will count in the end.

2 Timothy

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto bfables.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Amillia+Apr 7 2005, 12:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Apr 7 2005, 12:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--pushka@Apr 7 2005, 09:25 AM

Just read a little of the last few posts regarding the atonement, and the beliefs of Amillia...

Curvy, Cal and Shanstress 70 I agree with you entirely.

It will be agreeing with the Lord that will count in the end.

2 Timothy

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto bfables.

No, as far as you are concerned, it will be agreeing with the wacky ideas of Amiliology. Although I'm no longer LDS, I once was, and I can tell you that you have a huge misunderstanding of a lot of their doctrines. Possibly, the problem is that you are listening to some in the church that claim to be speaking of the church's doctrine, when actually, they don't have a firm grasp of it. I guess that is one of the drawbacks of having laypeople in positions of authority. If I was still LDS, I would be irritated that you were misrepresenting my religion's beliefs, making it look foolish. However, now I could really care less. I find it humorous.

Anyway, to the mods, Forget ex-mormon's posting here and scaring away investigators... I would be more worried about Amilia doing that... not just in this post, but many!

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Amillia+Apr 7 2005, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Apr 7 2005, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--pushka@Apr 7 2005, 09:25 AM

Just read a little of the last few posts regarding the atonement, and the beliefs of Amillia...

Curvy, Cal and Shanstress 70 I agree with you entirely.

It will be agreeing with the Lord that will count in the end.

2 Timothy

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto bfables.

Dear Amillia,

I am about as "orthodox" LDS as they can possibly come. I dont know how old you are, I am 48 yrs old, have served in 3 Bishopric's and everything else on the ward level....have been active...have attended my fair share of Regional meetings with Apostles etc....and I have never, ever in my entire experience in the Church have heard anything remotely resembling what it is you are espousing.

The key that this was a false doctrine was when you made the comment that you and your SP agreed that these "doctrines" are not taught openly but secretly or only to those who could "accept and understand" the deeper meaning (I know I paraphrased that badly, I am sorry)

There are no secret doctrines within the Church. The Temple ordinances are for all that desire to receive them. Its situations like what you are presenting here that the First Presidency is so adamant about sticking to the basics of the gospel...and not allow ourselves to get caught up into "gospel hobbies" as it were.

The doctrine you are putting forth here is false. It does not ring true to my spirit..nor does it agree with scriptures or any teaching or address that I have ever read or heard.

I think what we are trying to get you to see is that this is your personal opinion...and thats fine, but do not put it forward as official LDS doctrine because it certainly is not.

[Guest curvette]

Amillia: Can I recommend the book Believing Christ by Stephen R. Robinson? It is a wonderful book about the atonement, and how so many of us may believe IN Christ, but we have a hard time believing Him when He promises us forgiveness. It's very uplifting, and I highly recommend it.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Cal@Apr 7 2005, 08:18 AM

The other one I heard is the "nail" analogy--you can remove the nail, but he hole remains--this is supposed to represent repentence.

I remember that one well. I also remember when the General Young women's president asked all Young Women's presidents to stop teaching it.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Apr 7 2005, 12:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Apr 7 2005, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Apr 7 2005, 12:42 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--pushka@Apr 7 2005, 09:25 AM

Just read a little of the last few posts regarding the atonement, and the beliefs of Amillia...

Curvy, Cal and Shanstress 70 I agree with you entirely.

It will be agreeing with the Lord that will count in the end.

2 Timothy

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto bfables.

No, as far as you are concerned, it will be agreeing with the wacky ideas of Amiliology. Although I'm no longer LDS, I once was, and I can tell you that you have a huge misunderstanding of a lot of their doctrines. Possibly, the problem is that you are listening to some in the church that claim to be speaking of the church's doctrine, when actually, they don't have a firm grasp of it. I guess that is one of the drawbacks of having laypeople in positions of authority. If I was still LDS, I would be irritated that you were misrepresenting my religion's beliefs, making it look foolish. However, now I could really care less. I find it humorous.

Anyway, to the mods, Forget ex-mormon's posting here and scaring away investigators... I would be more worried about Amilia doing that... not just in this post, but many!

And you have a firmer grasp of church doctrine than my stake president or the prophets?