Facial Hair

[Guest]

I was “advised” yesterday to shave my facial hair. This is something our local leadership has been pushing lately. Has president Hinckley counseled us not to have facial hair, and if he has, where can I read about it. Thanks

[Faerie]

oooh i hope so..been bugging dh to shave his goatee for months now!!

[Amillia]

I don't want my hubby to shave off his mustache ~ I hope it isn't something they are going to push ~

[Jason]

It's all part and parcel of "fitting in" to the world's standards of clean shaven.

To be honest, it goes all the way back to the days of ancient Rome. Roman culture taught that facial hair was a sign of barbarism. When you wanted to court Rome, you sent men who were clean shaven.

Interestingly enough, that's the reason that until VERY recently, Roman Catholic Priests and Bishops were clean shaven. It was as rollover from the Roman culture days.

When clean shaven became the thing to do in the US, the LDS followed suit. It's "barbaric" to have facial hair.

I only recently learned all this when studying Eastern Orthodox Canons. Funny thing, the EO's. It's actually contrary to the Fathers to be clean shaven! Clean shaven men were considered "feminine". Only homosexual men were clean shaven. Real men have facial hair! At the very least, a man should have hair on his chin, because hairy-ness is a symbol of manhood, which in turn is divine.

(Not that you wanted to read all that, but hey, that's me...)

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 21 2005, 05:48 PM

To be honest, it goes all the way back to the days of ancient Rome. Roman culture taught that facial hair was a sign of barbarism. When you wanted to court Rome, you sent men who were clean shaven.

I assume you mean within Christianity. Long before the Romans were clean shaven, the Egyptians were clean shaven. I'm talking no hair at all! Bald as a billiard ball--body and soul! (of course theirs was more related to a distaste for lice than anything else.)

[Jason]

... the Egyptians were clean shaven. I'm talking no hair at all! Bald as a billiard ball--body and soul! (of course theirs was more related to a distaste for lice than anything else.)

Yeah, bunch of wimps.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 21 2005, 06:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 21 2005, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ExMormon-Jason@Mar 21 2005, 05:48 PM

To be honest, it goes all the way back to the days of ancient Rome.  Roman culture taught that facial hair was a sign of barbarism.  When you wanted to court Rome, you sent men who were clean shaven. 

I assume you mean within Christianity. Long before the Romans were clean shaven, the Egyptians were clean shaven. I'm talking no hair at all! Bald as a billiard ball--body and soul! (of course theirs was more related to a distaste for lice than anything else.)

At least, that's what Cecil B. DeMille wants us to think.

[Snow]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 21 2005, 04:48 PM

It's all part and parcel of "fitting in" to the world's standards of clean shaven.

To be honest, it goes all the way back to the days of ancient Rome. Roman culture taught that facial hair was a sign of barbarism. When you wanted to court Rome, you sent men who were clean shaven.

Interestingly enough, that's the reason that until VERY recently, Roman Catholic Priests and Bishops were clean shaven. It was as rollover from the Roman culture days.

When clean shaven became the thing to do in the US, the LDS followed suit. It's "barbaric" to have facial hair.

I only recently learned all this when studying Eastern Orthodox Canons. Funny thing, the EO's. It's actually contrary to the Fathers to be clean shaven! Clean shaven men were considered "feminine". Only homosexual men were clean shaven. Real men have facial hair! At the very least, a man should have hair on his chin, because hairy-ness is a symbol of manhood, which in turn is divine.

(Not that you wanted to read all that, but hey, that's me...)

Actually is goes back a bit farther than that.

Cave dwelling painting show that man was removing facial hair and tatooing himself in prehistoric times.

Copper razors have been found in the archeological record dating to 300 BC.

You can bet that whatever cool thing the Romans were doing, the Greeks probably beat them to it and indeed such was the case with shaving. Short hair and the clean shaven look were big. Alexander himself was a big shaving fan, like the Scandanavians before him (1500 BC) and the Indians (400 BC) after him. By about 330 BC Roman men were required to shave at age 21.

I myself have given up shaving with a razor but keep by face clean of facial hair through the power of faith.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by trapper@Mar 21 2005, 04:57 PM

I was ÅÂdvised¡¦yesterday to shave my facial hair. This is something our local leadership has been pushing lately. Has president Hinckley counseled us not to have facial hair, and if he has, where can I read about it. Thanks

Good question!

Our bishop who has had a mustache ever since I met him 9 years ago recently shaved his off! He looks really strange and we joked that he was trying to get into the stake presidency.

My FIL has never much like my husband to have facial hair and I believe that it is his opinion that men who do are breaking some sort of code. This past month my husband has been sporting a very short beard and yesterday he was being ribbed about it.

I would also like to know if there is something that has recently come up concerning this.

Trapper, what state do you live in and what does your facial hair consist of? Who was it that advised you to shave and how was that delivered to you?

[Cal]

Originally posted by trapper@Mar 21 2005, 03:57 PM

I was “advised” yesterday to shave my facial hair. This is something our local leadership has been pushing lately. Has president Hinckley counseled us not to have facial hair, and if he has, where can I read about it. Thanks

Are you male or female? If you are female, keep it, it probably has a certain charm.

[Cal]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 21 2005, 05:48 PM

It's all part and parcel of "fitting in" to the world's standards of clean shaven. 

To be honest, it goes all the way back to the days of ancient Rome.  Roman culture taught that facial hair was a sign of barbarism.  When you wanted to court Rome, you sent men who were clean shaven. 

Interestingly enough, that's the reason that until VERY recently, Roman Catholic Priests and Bishops were clean shaven.  It was as rollover from the Roman culture days. 

When clean shaven became the thing to do in the US, the LDS followed suit.  It's "barbaric" to have facial hair. 

I only recently learned all this when studying Eastern Orthodox Canons.  Funny thing, the EO's.  It's actually contrary to the Fathers to be clean shaven!  Clean shaven men were considered "feminine".  Only homosexual men were clean shaven.  Real men have facial hair!  At the very least, a man should have hair on his chin, because hairy-ness is a symbol of manhood, which in turn is divine. 

(Not that you wanted to read all that, but hey, that's me...)

That reminds me---If God thought enough of Samson's long hair to make it a condition of Samson's power, then how come, according to some LDS God is now reversing himself?

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Cal+Mar 21 2005, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Mar 21 2005, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ExMormon-Jason@Mar 21 2005, 05:48 PM

It's all part and parcel of "fitting in" to the world's standards of clean shaven. 

To be honest, it goes all the way back to the days of ancient Rome.  Roman culture taught that facial hair was a sign of barbarism.  When you wanted to court Rome, you sent men who were clean shaven. 

Interestingly enough, that's the reason that until VERY recently, Roman Catholic Priests and Bishops were clean shaven.  It was as rollover from the Roman culture days. 

When clean shaven became the thing to do in the US, the LDS followed suit.  It's "barbaric" to have facial hair. 

I only recently learned all this when studying Eastern Orthodox Canons.  Funny thing, the EO's.  It's actually contrary to the Fathers to be clean shaven!  Clean shaven men were considered "feminine".  Only homosexual men were clean shaven.  Real men have facial hair!  At the very least, a man should have hair on his chin, because hairy-ness is a symbol of manhood, which in turn is divine. 

(Not that you wanted to read all that, but hey, that's me...)

That reminds me---If God thought enough of Samson's long hair to make it a condition of Samson's power, then how come, according to some LDS God is now reversing himself?

If He's reversing himself, he did it a long time before the Latter-day Saints came along. Paul wrote something along the lines of "does not even nature itself teach that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?"

Samson seems to have been a Nazarite -- a member of a particular sect among the ancient Hebrews that believed in wearing hair long.

[Jason]

That reminds me---If God thought enough of Samson's long hair to make it a condition of Samson's power, then how come, according to some LDS God is now reversing himself?

Well, according to Orthodoxy, God hasn't reversed anything. (at least for clergy.)

[Guest curvette]

The whole thing is so obviously cultural. Israelites historically always wore beards. Romans were beardless so that influenced Christianity in Europe. Early church brethren wore beards. Now they don't. Who cares? I find it hard to believe that this is a mandate from the prophet. It sounds more like a local leaders pet project. I think it's utterly absurd. If a man wants to have a well groomed beard he should be able to.

[john doe]

I myself have given up shaving with a razor but keep by face clean of facial hair through the power of faith.

So, how's that working out for you? I've heard that that method can backfire and instead of the hair not growing on the face, it stops growing on the top of the head. Then, the lost energy from the head hair not growing generates more ear and nose hair growth. At least that's been my experience.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Mar 21 2005, 09:52 PM

If He's reversing himself, he did it a long time before the Latter-day Saints came along. Paul wrote something along the lines of "does not even nature itself teach that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?"

How does nature teach us that? The only way nature teaches it is that most men eventually become bald, and if they enjoyed long hair in their youth, they become ashamed when it falls out. Paul was a Roman citizen, and it was the style of the Romans to have short cropped hair. Another cultural bias. (he was probably bald and jealous of guys with hair. :) )

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by john doe@Mar 21 2005, 10:23 PM

I myself have given up shaving with a razor but keep by face clean of facial hair through the power of faith.

So, how's that working out for you? I've heard that that method can backfire and instead of the hair not growing on the face, it stops growing on the top of the head. Then, the lost energy from the head hair not growing generates more ear and nose hair growth. At least that's been my experience.

Yeah! My husband tried it and the hair started leaving his head and migrating to his back. I don't recommend it!

[Snow]

Originally posted by john doe@Mar 21 2005, 09:23 PM

I myself have given up shaving with a razor but keep by face clean of facial hair through the power of faith.

So, how's that working out for you? I've heard that that method can backfire and instead of the hair not growing on the face, it stops growing on the top of the head. Then, the lost energy from the head hair not growing generates more ear and nose hair growth. At least that's been my experience.

Hence the need to develop body region specific faith as opposed to generallized faith. It was in the original Book of Commandments but BY edited it out.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 21 2005, 11:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 21 2005, 11:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--john doe@Mar 21 2005, 10:23 PM

I myself have given up shaving with a razor but keep by face clean of facial hair through the power of faith.

So, how's that working out for you? I've heard that that method can backfire and instead of the hair not growing on the face, it stops growing on the top of the head. Then, the lost energy from the head hair not growing generates more ear and nose hair growth. At least that's been my experience.

Yeah! My husband tried it and the hair started leaving his head and migrating to his back. I don't recommend it!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

[Cal]

Originally posted by curvette@Mar 21 2005, 10:19 PM

The whole thing is so obviously cultural. Israelites historically always wore beards. Romans were beardless so that influenced Christianity in Europe. Early church brethren wore beards. Now they don't. Who cares? I find it hard to believe that this is a mandate from the prophet. It sounds more like a local leaders pet project. I think it's utterly absurd. If a man wants to have a well groomed beard he should be able to.

By gum, Curvy, I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head!

[Jason]

A few words on beards from the Early Church Fathers:

"How womanly it is for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, and to arerange his hair at the mirror, shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them! . . . . For God wished women to be smooth and to rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, as a horse in his mane. But He has adorned man, like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him, as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest -- a sign of strength and rule." (St. Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)

"This, then, is the mark of the man, the beard. By this, he is seen to be a man. It is older than Eve. It is the token of the superior nature. . . . It is therefore unholy to desecrate the symbol of manhood, hariness. (St. Clement of Alexandria)

"Let the chin have the hair. . . . For an ample beard suffices for men. And if someone, too, shaves a part of his beard, it must not be made entirely bare, for this is a disgraceful sight. . . . The moustache similarly, which is dirtied in eating, is to be cut round, not by the razor (for that is not well bred), but by a pair of cropping scissors. But the hair on the chin is not to be disturbed." (St. Clement of Alexandria)

"In their manners, there was no discipline. In men, their beards were defaced." (St. Cyprian, c 250 AD)

"Although it is written, 'You will not mar the figure of your beard,' he plucks out his beard and dresses his hair!" (St. Cyprian)

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 22 2005, 09:49 AM

But He has adorned man, like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him, as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest -- a sign of strength and rule." (St. Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)

I notice he fails to mention the virtue of the hairy butt or back. :)

Those were interesting quotes--thanks!

[DisRuptive1]

It's hard for men to shave "back there." It is the duty of the woman, if she finds it offensive, to do it for him. Most men don't care about the hair, it's the women that care. So help your man out!

[Guest TheProudDuck]

But He has adorned man, like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him, as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest -- a sign of strength and rule." (St. Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)

Well, crud. I and my nine measly chest hairs feel completely bereft of strength and rule.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 22 2005, 12:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 22 2005, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ExMormon-Jason@Mar 22 2005, 09:49 AM

But He has adorned man, like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him, as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest -- a sign of strength and rule." (St. Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)

I notice he fails to mention the virtue of the hairy butt or back. :)

Those were interesting quotes--thanks!

a hairy butt? YUK ~ I don't think I have ever seen one of those knowingly ! I hope I never do!!!