Jesus Faked Death

[pushka]

Just thought that this thread might interest one or two of you...sorry if it's 'old news'...just found it being debated over on www.bagism.com

Jesus faked death; Christianity a hoax!

Posted by **Rumor** on Apr 30, 2005 at 4:14:36 PM:

*I dare all Christians to read this and to further read "The Passover Plot" by Hugh Schonfield...here's a synopsis of the book:

The miracles and mysteries that serve to establish Christ's divinity in the church's official narrative are a plot--masterminded by Jesus himself--the purpose of which was to prove that this son of a Galilean carpenter was the Messiah whose coming had been predicted by certain Jewish sects since about a century and a half before his birth. Steeped from his youth in the religious ferment of his day, Jesus gradually becomes convinced that it was incumbent upon him to manifest his Messiahship by ensuring that his demise conformed to the prophesied pattern. To this end, Jesus minutely planned and orchestrated the events of Passion Week so they would culminate in his crucifixion on Friday afternoon. For the Passover Plot, timing is everything; delaying the Messiah's predicted ordeal until just before the Sabbath would enable Jesus to survive crucifixion by faking his death. The custom of removing the bodies of the crucified from their crosses before the Sabbath meant that Jesus' time on the cross would be minimized, allowing him to receive quickly the medical attention he would need. And by appearing to die on his own Jesus would be spared having his legs broken, the usual means by which the Romans hastened the deaths of crucifixion victims. Jesus' words "I am thirsty" were a signal to Joseph of Arimathea, who dispatched a servant with a vinegar-soaked sponge on the end of a twig of hyssop. But, there was more than just vinegar in this sponge. Had this liquid consisted of the normal wine vinegar diluted with water the effect would have been stimulating. In this case it was exactly the opposite. Jesus lapsed quickly into complete unconsciousness. His body sagged. His head lolled on his breast, and to all intents and purposes he was a dead man. He was drugged!

Having created the illusion of premature death, Jesus is taken down from the cross and immediately laid in the tomb. Sometime on Saturday night, however, Jesus' confederates return to the tomb to carry out the entirely legitimate purpose of reviving him. The Roman soldier's lance thrust, however, had made Jesus' chances of recovery slender; after regaining consciousness temporarily, Jesus finally succumbed. It being much too risky, and perhaps too late, to take the body back to the tomb, replace the bandages left there, roll the stone across the entrance, and try to create the impression that everything was as it had been on Friday evening, Jesus' co-conspirators quickly and reverently interred the remains elsewhere, leaving the puzzle of the empty tomb.

This enticing puzzle may accurately be seen as the real basis of Christianity, since from it the early church, by tying together a quilt of conflicting eyewitness accounts, bits of unrelated historic data wove its authoritative and authorizing narrative of Jesus' death and resurrection. If phase one of the Passover Plot was engineered by Jesus himself, phase two consists in the early church's "official" narrative of Christ's death and resurrection. Phase two ties together and tidies up the loose ends and unaccountable details left behind by Jesus' own, partially successful, conspiracy, producing, by about the third century, a myth capable of instituting a great world religion.

But as that myth was reverently scrutinized, accumulating through the years a weighty interpretive tradition, its loose ends continued to turn up and demand explanation. As Christianity spread after about 300 C.E. to an increasingly educated and intellectually sophisticated populace (Rumor's note: NOT IN AMERICA), the need for a stable originary narrative--capable of withstanding the skepticism of friend and foe alike--became more urgent. Thus, the early church stabilized the myth of Jesus' life and worked first by obliterating any lingering traces of the Passover Plot, and finally by mining the Old Testament for every possible prophetic detail until the two parts of the Bible, taken together, constituted a seamless cosmological narrative. In the end this is just a story, carefully and tendentiously abstracted from a chaos of events related only by their having occurred in roughly the same region at about the same time.

[Amillia]

Interesting what those who have never 'known' Christ will dream up to get passed their own spiritual inadequacies. Pushka, where ae you getting all of this sick tripe? And why?

[pushka]

I said at the beginning of the thread that it was from another website...http://www.bagism.com/

I'm just introducing topics of discussion here, which are being discussed there, to get another set of points of view...for comparison only, not to tease anybody or any other motive.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by pushka@Apr 30 2005, 11:23 PM

I said at the beginning of the thread that it was from another website...http://www.bagism.com/

I'm just introducing topics of discussion here, which are being discussed there, to get another set of points of view...for comparison only, not to tease anybody or any other motive.

Well my point of view is this: This is tripe. It is sick. It is without merrit. I would think anyone taking this much time to fabricate such stories, needs to get a 'real' life.

Christ is that 'real' life. Once you have received that 'real' life, you no longer can tolerate sin, even the least bit. I find such things as you have posted above, distasteful and ignorant.

[pushka]

Thanks for your opinion Amillia.

[begood2]

I don't think that anyone in their right mind would want to go through the pain and agony of Christ's crucifixion to try to fake their death and resurrection.

[Setheus]

Originally posted by pushka@Apr 30 2005, 10:23 PM

I said at the beginning of the thread that it was from another website...http://www.bagism.com/

I'm just introducing topics of discussion here, which are being discussed there, to get another set of points of view...for comparison only, not to tease anybody or any other motive.

It would have been easier to do this.....

From another thread...."Jesus was a fake". Then end. Discussions? Anyone?

[pushka]

lol Setheus...

[Jenda]

I could see someone being psychotic enough to think they are the Messiah and do the things that Christ did in his last days, but one would have to skip the entire previous three years to do so. A psychotic person can't perform miracles or bring people back from the dead. I mean, there is just so much more to Christ than his last 7 days.

[Tick]

I think it is funny that man is still trying to reason, or down play Christ's role. Our reasoning always changes. A couple of years ago the anti-christs accepted him as a good teacher, and now he is crazy? Our reasoning stinks. But if there was no christ and it is all horse manure. And if god does'nt exist and there is no after life, then we dont have to be responsible for anything. We can do what ever we want. If this way of thinking spreads, then it is going to be a rough world. These people clearly dont know what they are getting into. A world without christ. A world full of selfish killers and criminals of every kind. Everyone laughs right now. Because you are safe in your homes. You can talk about him not existing. But when the people without christ trample threw your yard and break down your weak door and come to get whatever you have. Then you will sit down and wonder what is going on. You wont be able to reason your way threw that one. I have been to jail, I have been surrounded by people without christ. I may have even been a bad person myself. Trust me, it is all kinds of bad you dont want to get into. Imagine waking up with 4 250pnd men without christ standing over your bed while you sleep in your safe room with your safe security. I wonder who these victims will pray to in the end. Times that by 100 and you would still not have a clue on what creatures lurk at night. Of the 2 legged kind. And you would be surprised and how many things get covered up, so it doesnt cause panic. And a lot of crime doesnt get reported. You should here what some of these criminals have done before they got caught. But everyone can keep saying there is no christ. They can laugh at all of the religious idiots in secret. Your safe. HAHAHA

[Snow]

Originally posted by pushka@Apr 30 2005, 08:36 PM

Jesus faked death; Christianity a hoax!

This wouldn't be hard to do. All you would need is to take some "white powder." The anti-gravitional effects would make the cross bearable, then at the end you could simply pass into an alternate parallel dimension. The great part is during the whole ordeal, the white powder could help you experience increased serendipity and better penmanship.

[pushka]

LOL Snow!!

Tick...I understand that a world in which nobody took responsibility for their actions would be a terrible place in which to live...however I can assure you that I have plenty of friends who are atheist, and they certainly are not criminals out to steal, murder, rape or otherwise. Why do you have to assume that it is only Christian people who are caring and considerate enough not to commit crimes? And please explain why some Christians are criminals?

[Tick]

Tick...I understand that a world in which nobody took responsibility for their actions would be a terrible place in which to live...however I can assure you that I have plenty of friends who are atheist, and they certainly are not criminals out to steal, murder, rape or otherwise. Why do you have to assume that it is only Christian people who are caring and considerate enough not to commit crimes? And please explain why some Christians are criminals?

pushka, I am real glad you have atheist friends, but dont tell me about how the criminal mind works. And you dont know what your friends would do, or what they may already be doing. Most of your criminals dont believe in christ until they go to jail. And most of those carry a bible in front of them to hide behind. Even they arent true believers in christ. Anyone can put on a good show. Your athiest friends may indeed be good people, but what if the right oppurtunity arises. And remember that your friends are still influenced by a christian society and are controled with the fear of the local law. A christian society is much better than the societies that dont believe in christ. History and the culture of the world tells you that. On a larger scale christian societies do better. I am not talking just on a person by person level. and if you think a person can be just as good without christ as one that is with him, then you are sadly mistaken my friend. I have lost most of my friends to jail, or death. Half of my family is messed up with their hatred towards christ. I used to think like you. And I am serious when I say that "I was wrong". The disbelief in christ will lead to all of the things you said. I have seen it. You can laugh all you want. I have seen it. I promise that I have seen it. I have seen a lot of bad things. I have been a part of a lot of bad things. And if you dont believe any of it, then you are on a fools road. And dont even respond back saying that you have experience with these types of people, because I wont believe you. I can tell the people that have and havent had to deal with these types of people. And you havent. I have lived in crack hoods, trailer parks, and drug infested communities all of my life. I dont feel the belief in christ in these areas. There is a silence or a hatred towards god in these areas, but they put on a good show. I dont want anything to do with athiests, drug addicts, or criminals, or mask christians. And if there is any good in them, you better believe it is the light of christ, but it does leave them slowly and it will drain you too. And satan hides in the cloud of atheism. If you dont agree then you must live a very safe life. And if you think all is well then your attitude is as laughable as my spelling.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tick@May 1 2005, 06:54 PM

I am real glad you have atheist friends, but dont tell me about how the criminal mind works.

... or what? Seriously, or what?

[pushka]

Thank you Tick...I agree that I don't know what my atheist friends do every second of their days, however I can judge what I believe their values to be by the shared experiences we have had, the campaigns we have fought for together, which have not been to decriminalise marijuana or any other 'law breaking' campaigns, but campaigns for more justice in the world, better human and animal rights...that sort of stuff...

I agree with you about the criminals who 'discover' Jesus in prison, I am very wary of their testimonies too...I can see that they try to use this newly acquired Christian status as a way to be released earlier...in some cases. However, I was asking you about the criminals who were Christians before they committed their crimes? How come they commit crimes too if you feel that only atheists commit crimes? Just doesn't add up.

Yes, I have been fortunate enough to live a very 'safe' life, not having much experience of living amongst hardline criminals/drug users etc. I would never try to pretend that I had done so, in order justify my beliefs.

I am sorry, but I just do not see my doubt of belief in Religion and my friends' atheist beliefs gradually turning us into criminals...

[Setheus]

Originally posted by Tick@May 1 2005, 07:54 PM

pushka, I am real glad you have atheist friends, but dont tell me about how the criminal mind works. And you dont know what your friends would do, or what they may already be doing. Most of your criminals dont believe in christ until they go to jail.

Your athiest friends may indeed be good people, but what if the right oppurtunity arises. And remember that your friends are still influenced by a christian society and are controled with the fear of the local law.

A christian society is much better than the societies that dont believe in christ.

History and the culture of the world tells you that.

On a larger scale christian societies do better. I am not talking just on a person by person level.

and if you think a person can be just as good without christ as one that is with him, then you are sadly mistaken my friend.

I have lost most of my friends to jail, or death. Half of my family is messed up with their hatred towards christ.

So what you're saying is "beware the budist monistary!" ?

And what about these tribal peoples that only fought each other over survival issues and for leadership positions before "we" christians showed up and taught them pride? and covetness? (not that all men can't develop this on their own) Are you saying the Jewish Rabbi down the street is plotting against me between his smiles and kind hello's?

As far as the jail thing....LOL I just saw a woman last night arrested and when they went to take her crusifix necklace away (I guess it could be a weapon?) she started crying and said without it "demons would attack her" and then she went off into praying some mumbo jumbo. Does she hate Christ? Perhaps she is confused REALLY confused but does that equil hatered?

And about these christian societies, how ae they better "simply for being christian" Have you been to Singapore? That country has got its crap together! And its true, there is NO litter in the streets! And the people are not oppressed. They live much like we do, shopping malls and all!

Tick, while I do believe in Christ and do love His ways, you my friend are full of CRAP-O'La! You're just the kind of "christian" that makes other religions see "us" as judgemental and unkind. Its people like you who in the old days made Indian children cut their hair and wear "proper clothes". (edited (although I understand your sentiment))

I really hope I'm not put on mod status again.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@May 2 2005, 12:43 PM

Setheus,

Even though what you said would appear to go against LDS teachings, I agree with you.

What in Setheus's post was there anything against LDS teachings? Could you please point them out?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+May 2 2005, 12:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taoist_Saint @ May 2 2005, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@May 2 2005, 11:47 AM

What in Setheus's post was there anything against LDS teachings? Could you please point them out?

Did I say "teachings"?

Aw heck! I should have said "beliefs". Ooops!

I suspect many LDS believe that the best government would be in a country with LDS or at least Christian inspired laws?

But I do not...I agree with Setheus.

And I guess you agree with Setheus too, or you would not be asking me this question?

Great minds think alike, eh?

I still don't get what you mean. LDS have taughtthe following teachings which cross all religious boundaries:

Philip. 4: 8

8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

A of F 1: 13

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Fantastic!

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@May 2 2005, 02:10 PM

Fantastic!

Tao, my friend, I think you need to take your meds.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by shanstress70+May 4 2005, 04:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ May 4 2005, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Taoist_Saint@May 2 2005, 02:10 PM

Fantastic!

Tao, my friend, I think you need to take your meds.

I'm feeling better today :)

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+May 4 2005, 06:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taoist_Saint @ May 4 2005, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -shanstress70@May 4 2005, 04:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Taoist_Saint@May 2 2005, 02:10 PM

Fantastic!

Tao, my friend, I think you need to take your meds.

I'm feeling better today :)

Glad to hear it!