Wind Power

[pam]

Just a thought..but if we put all the politicians together, we could probably generate enough hot air wind power to keep the western US going

[Aesa]

- I am simply saying there are no successful large scale uses of any energy source you are betting the farm on.

Well then I have no basis in addressing anything you have said, because I agree with you. There is no large scale harnessing of abundant energies in practice, there is (and I'm sure you'll agree, and would be surprised if you didn't) a very big difference between the potential for technological development and it's actual application - there is a reason for that.

the reason there is less potential for profit is because those oh so abundant energy sources are more expensive to harvest compared to fossil fuel

Exactly, I don't disagree. And in our society we'd rather contaminate the environment because it's cheaper, as opposed to working towards solutions that can actually be sustained for long periods of time without any worry of shortage at it's highest, present, possible optimisation.

here are many arguments for things like Solar or Wind energy, that cost wise (monetary) its cheaper or the same cost oil or even better coal isn't one of them, and until that changes or the costs are hidden (subsidies) you aren't going to see a massive switch to those alternative energy sources

I don't think we'll ever see a shift to these sorts of energies until we don't have a system based on profit, but that is another discussion altogether. In the long run, alternative energies will save you a lot of money -- and by that I mean installing small-scale wind turbines/solar panels/etc at your home. That way, you aren't relying on a very unstable energy grid. Edited July 16, 2009 by Aesa

[Traveler]

Traveler,

I am sorry to hear about your love for bicycles. Sure if we all road a bike to work, we would be thiner, but when ever I think about riding a bike, I remember my years on my mission and I go find my car keys.

You are missing out on one of the great benefits and joys of life. I took our young men on a 500 mile bike ride a few years back and it changed most of their lives for the good.

Riding a bicycle will change how you eat, sleep, think, breath and treat others when you are driving a car; all for the good. It makes fitness fun and exciting and turns vacations into adventures and experiences on a yearly basis that are remembered for a life time. Things like riding through the Redwoods of northern California, through the Smoky Mts of North Carolina, the Columbia basin, the costs anywhere and the mountains of Utah, Idaho and Wyoming (my favorite). I just wanted to add here that traveling by bicycle opens one to an experience of sensory input from nature that exceeds sight only that you cannot get sitting in a sterol controlled environment of a car and you will have much more experience than you can accomplish walking.

BTW if you drive in Utah (SLC area) and see a rider with black and white with red trim riding with a lady with powder blue and white colors – please be nice. It took me over 30 years to covert my wife to bicycling.

The Traveler

Edited July 16, 2009 by Traveler

[Traveler]

I don't think we'll ever see a shift to these sorts of energies until we don't have a system based on profit, but that is another discussion altogether. In the long run, alternative energies will save you a lot of money -- and by that I mean installing small-scale wind turbines/solar panels/etc at your home. That way, you aren't relying on a very unstable energy grid.

I am not sure what you mean by demonizing profit. In a free economy profit is nothing more than a measure of efficiency. Do you really think that anyone will install an energy system that for every 10 units of effort you put into it you will get 5 units back when you can get one that will give you 100 units for only putting in 2?

I agree that we need to continue to pursue a variety of energy sources. I am excited that as a society we are looking for innovation in the fields of energy. What I am suggesting is that we do not kill the plow horse because we think if we get enough chickens we can accomplish the same thing. Let’s make sure the chicken idea really works before we get rid of the horse.

Currently fossil fuels not only provide us with better transportation than mankind (or any other creature that has ever lived on earth) has ever had but the profits not only pay for our highways and other transportation infrastructure those profit dollars provide a lot of other things in our economy – for example the funding of health care and the arts. Without cheap and efficient energy we would not have funding for many other things we have time to enjoy because we do not have to work so hard to accomplish the same thing.

I tried to make this point – fossil fuels are cheap and a great addition to the economy that helps pay for many other things that enhance our standard of living. If we remove that economic engine how will we provide the needed funds for all the other things cheep energy pays for – like health care and the arts? I tried to make this point with ethanol – gas can be put into use for 35 cents a gallon but ethanol requires $2 a gallon to break even. If we force a conversion to ethanol how will we replace all the stuff that was bought with the additional $1.63 per gallon was buying to stimulate our economy?

The Traveler