martybess Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 D&C 95:1VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you whom I love, and whom I love I also chasten that their sins may be forgiven, for with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation, and I have loved you—I find this interesting. Any ideas as to how he chastens his ppl? - Does he let down the hedge that protects them?- Is it their own doing because of wickedness and if so then really is it his chastisement or natural cause and effect?- Do we know were doing wicked so the light of Christ torments us? Kind of light what happened the the prophet when the plates were lost. Surely he was chastened.-Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 - Does he let down the hedge that protects them?Sometimes, yes; per Isaiah 5:5.- Is it their own doing because of wickedness and if so then really is it his chastisement or natural cause and effect?Sometimes. But what if it was God who set up the laws of "natural cause and effect"?- Do we know were doing wicked so the light of Christ torments us? Kind of light what happened the the prophet when the plates were lost. Surely he was chastened.In my own experience: Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybess Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 D&C 101 4 Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son. 5 For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified.It looks to be part of our growth process but how HF accomplishes it is what's on my mind. How much does he play in our causing us pain. -Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditioSalvatus Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 It looks to be part of our growth process but how HF accomplishes it is what's on my mind. How much does he play in our causing us pain. Well, one could go so far as to say that all pain is caused by god. It all goes back to the Problem of Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alana Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 In our ward, we're chastised by the stake single adult rep. When ever she comes to talk we know we're in trouble:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybess Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well, one could go so far as to say that all pain is caused by god. It all goes back to the Problem of Evil.Yes that is my point too. Kind of a interesting process, a mix of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpacktr Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Look to Job. Job was described as 'perfect and upright' before God, and yet he had some terrible things happen to him. With God's blessing, I might add. But the bounds were set as to how far the trial could go. Likewise, Abraham was chastened with the trial of the sacrifice of Isaac. I think that chastening goes to the 'hedge' idea you had in a lot of ways. If it is because of our own sins, then it is a natural effect of our actions, and I'm not sure that God's hand is in it so much, as we are then subject to a natural law. When the Prophet Joseph spoke of trials so hard that it would tug at your heartstrings, and if you could not endure it then you were not fit for the Celestial glory, I believe that he meant those trials that occur because of mortality, being in the grasp, as it were, of Satan and his minions. We didn't do anything, per se, to 'deserve' it, but that is part of the trial of faith that comes. The 'why me?' questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybess Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 When my son was small and run into something that was hard for him to do did I always step in, no. Did I always fight his school mate battles for him, no. Did I keep an eye on him, yes. Though he may not of thought so. If he went to jail for something he did did I bail him out, yes on conditions. So it must be the same for HF. Though we didn't do anything to deserve the trail he lets us swim in the deep water so we become expert swimmers. "D&C 95:1VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you whom I love, and whom I love I also chasten that their sins may be forgiven, for with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation, and I have loved you—"Interesting thing in this verse is he says he loves us three times. Like a father who spanks his child all the while saying "I love you, it's for your own good". And what is the child saying? "But dad, I didn't do anything wrong. Please don't". That's what I say.... HF what did I do, why me" while I should be saying "Thy will be done and submit to anything you put in my path". As did Abraham and Job.Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 D&C 95:1VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you whom I love, and whom I love I also chasten that their sins may be forgiven, for with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation, and I have loved you—I find this interesting. Any ideas as to how he chastens his ppl? - Does he let down the hedge that protects them?- Is it their own doing because of wickedness and if so then really is it his chastisement or natural cause and effect?- Do we know were doing wicked so the light of Christ torments us? Kind of light what happened the the prophet when the plates were lost. Surely he was chastened.-MartyWhat did the Lord do with the Brother of Jared? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybess Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 What did the Lord do with the Brother of Jared?He chewed his butt out! Pretty black and white on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 He also let him solve his own problems as far as he was able. The pattern in the Book of Mormon is clear. When people prosper they tend to forget God. If they suffer trials and affliction they tend to remember Him. I think it's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybess Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 He also let him solve his own problems as far as he was able.The pattern in the Book of Mormon is clear. When people prosper they tend to forget God. If they suffer trials and affliction they tend to remember Him. I think it's that simple.So when your car keeps braking down on you and your dog dies and your best friend betrays you, you then get a serious illness and loose you eye sight is all because you have forgotten the Lord?Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 So when your car keeps braking down on you and your dog dies and your best friend betrays you, you then get a serious illness and loose you eye sight is all because you have forgotten the Lord?Marty2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.See also Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 He chewed his butt out! Pretty black and white on this one. No different what He did to Joseph Smith on many occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 He also let him solve his own problems as far as he was able.The pattern in the Book of Mormon is clear. When people prosper they tend to forget God. If they suffer trials and affliction they tend to remember Him. I think it's that simple.A pattern seen...good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danite Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Well I'm not sure that all of us are chastised in the same way or time. I do believe that blessings are predicated on law and when we knowing break the law those blessing which we might have received may be withheld until we repent.I don't think Heavenly Father is trying to get us , I think it's more like we get our selves. (talking about chastiisment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybess Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 from the book "The Last Lecture"someone tells Randy to be glad his coach is going hard on him - that chastisment is better than being ignored:When you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care.I think everyone is humbled / humiliated in different ways. Yes, lowering of the hedge, cause/effect, conscience, criticism from others, there are multiple venues for chastisement.Changed,I used this on quote on my facebook. Thanks You always have a ton of good quotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) So when your car keeps braking down on you and your dog dies and your best friend betrays you, you then get a serious illness and loose you eye sight is all because you have forgotten the Lord?MartyNo, it sounds like you're playing a country record backwards. :)Seriously, we live in an imperfect world and sometimes circumstances bring bad things. Sometimes, it brings waves of bad things.I have said this before, but I'll mention it here and hope no one gets bored.This is much like the weather. I see 3 possibilities that all reach the same conclusion:1. Uncontrolled conditions (nature) bring about destructive storms and God does not stop it.2. God prevents a destructive storm that was caused by nature.3. God created a storm that was not caused by nature.All 3 paths lead to the conclusion that God is in control.So, the answer to your question, in my opinion, is that God allows things to happen, or causes things to happen, for His own wise purposes. He may not necessarily have caused it, but He can prevent it if He knew it was best for you.Another possibility is that the trial isn't meant for you, but for someone close to you who will go through a trial because you are. And, it is also possible to have a trial to give others the opportunity to love and serve.I don't know all the possibilities, but I know all roads lead to God being in charge. Edited July 23, 2009 by Justice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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