Non uniform belief? Why?

[Justice]

Granted. I'll give you that.

I apologized for my misunderstanding.

It doesn't change the fact that anyone who has studied the Book of Mormon knows what those passages mean. You can't claim to have studied the Book of Mormon and be ignorant of it's origin. If God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith as he said they did, then those passages can only mean one thing.

[Justice]

Simply put, the Holy Ghost works with power and feeling. It is something that can be felt and distinguished.

I will search some links to talks that have been given about it and see if I can find a few good ones to post for you.

[pam]

I have participated in a few discussions on this forum so far. And as an outsider the only thing that seems clear is that with very few exceptions no two mormons believe the same thing about their religion. Having said that (and I am sure that most people will concentrate on this statement instead of the following question and what I hope will be the focus of this thread)

How if you can not decide a universal way to believe some of the core points in your own faith can you ever expect to be understood and not questioned by the outside world that may or may not be looking at mormonism with interest of joining but still have honest questions and curiosities?

I'm jumping in this kind of late but I have thought about this since being questioned this on another thread.

One point I see is, even on this site..people are at varying degrees in their spirituality. Even on this site we have members who have been members their entire life, some members of the site only for a couple of weeks. We have members who have been inactive for long periods of time and those that have been active their entire membership in the Church.

We have some who like to study the basic principles of the gospel while others like to study the "meatier" issues of the gospel.

What I'm trying to say is..I think one of the reasons you find such varying differences of opinion is not everyone is at the same level of understanding.

[Lstinthwrld]

Simply put, the Holy Ghost works with power and feeling. It is something that can be felt and distinguished.

I will search some links to talks that have been given about it and see if I can find a few good ones to post for you.

Thank you I appreciate that.

[Guest Believer_1829]

Granted. I'll give you that.

I apologized for my misunderstanding.

It doesn't change the fact that anyone who has studied the Book of Mormon knows what those passages mean. You can't claim to have studied the Book of Mormon and be ignorant of it's origin. If God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith as he said they did, then those passages can only mean one thing.

Because the Restoration is such a fascinating subject to me, I have come in contact with believers in the Book of Mormon of all stripes. The belief in the nature of the Godhead runs the gamut amoung them. Joseph gave several accounts of the First Vision all which vary in their details concerning the exact form in which God appeared to him. Many take their interpretation of the passages of scripture and tie it to whichever of Joseph's accounts jives with what they believe.

Because of the Lectures on Faith and the pattern found throughout scripture my current belief is in the "Voice of Father from Heaven, Jesus Only Appeared" account, until additional knowledge comes forth from the Brass Plates or Sealed Portion.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Believer_1829

[Justice]

From James E. Faust:

What Makes Our Religion Different?

There is, however, another reason for our growth, one that transcends all others. Of an interview in 1839 between the Prophet Joseph Smith and Martin Van Buren, who was then president of the United States, the following was recorded: “In our interview with the President, he interrogated us wherein we differed in our religion from the other religions of the day. Brother Joseph said we differed in mode of baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. We considered that all other considerations were contained in the gift of the Holy Ghost” (History of the Church, 4:42).

One of the reasons the Prophet’s response was so inspired is that the right to enjoy the marvelous gifts of the Holy Ghost is conferred upon every member of the Church soon after baptism. This is in fulfillment of the promise of the Savior: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” (John 14:16).

This powerful gift entitles the leaders and all worthy members of the Church to enjoy the gifts and companionship of the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead whose function is to inspire, reveal, and teach all things. The result of this endowment is that since the Church was organized, the leadership and members have enjoyed, and now enjoy, continuous revelation and inspiration directing them in what is right and good. Inspiration and revelation are so common, so widespread, so universal among the leaders and the members that there is a strong spiritual base underlying what is done. This can be found in the gatherings of the Church, both large and small.

Why does the Church grow and flourish? It does so because of divine direction to the leaders and members. This began in our day when God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith early in the spring of 1820. However, we claim that God’s inspiration is not limited to the Latter-day Saints. The First Presidency has stated: “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. … We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation” (“Statement of the First Presidency regarding God’s Love for All Mankind,” 15 Feb. 1978).

We declare in all solemnity, however, that we know salvation in the world to come is dependent upon accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One factor in salvation is personal revelation. Joseph Smith said: “No man can receive the Holy Ghost without receiving revelations. The Holy Ghost is a revelator” (History of the Church, 6:58).

[Lstinthwrld]

I'm jumping in this kind of late but I have thought about this since being questioned this on another thread.

One point I see is, even on this site..people are at varying degrees in their spirituality. Even on this site we have members who have been members their entire life, some members of the site only for a couple of weeks. We have members who have been inactive for long periods of time and those that have been active their entire membership in the Church.

We have some who like to study the basic principles of the gospel while others like to study the "meatier" issues of the gospel.

What I'm trying to say is..I think one of the reasons you find such varying differences of opinion is not everyone is at the same level of understanding.

Very valid answer in reference to the population of this site. Can someone please come up with a topic that illustrates my point in the OP. I would but I have already been accused of a myriad of things (not by you pam:)) in relation to this topic. Maybe if someone else offers a example it will be taken a little more seriously.

[Justice]

Joseph Smith-History:

...

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

I believe this is perfectly clear, but I will defend your right to disagree.

[Kawazu]

Very valid answer in reference to the population of this site. Can someone please come up with a topic that illustrates my point in the OP. I would but I have already been accused of a myriad of things (not by you pam:)) in relation to this topic. Maybe if someone else offers a example it will be taken a little more seriously.

User, "Snow" posts controversial thought experiments. Enlist him.

[Justice]

These words from President Faust offer no real answers to your questions, but I thought it might interest you to read from a modern Apostle, and a quote from Joseph Smith emphasizing how important we view the subject.

[pam]

Very valid answer in reference to the population of this site. Can someone please come up with a topic that illustrates my point in the OP. I would but I have already been accused of a myriad of things (not by you pam:)) in relation to this topic. Maybe if someone else offers a example it will be taken a little more seriously.

STrictly doctrinal things or other things that are of interest or concern to us as LDS? And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon...let's please leave the whole Prop 8 thing out. It's been discussed enough.

[Lstinthwrld]

From James E. Faust:

What Makes Our Religion Different?

There is, however, another reason for our growth, one that transcends all others. Of an interview in 1839 between the Prophet Joseph Smith and Martin Van Buren, who was then president of the United States, the following was recorded: “In our interview with the President, he interrogated us wherein we differed in our religion from the other religions of the day. Brother Joseph said we differed in mode of baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. We considered that all other considerations were contained in the gift of the Holy Ghost” (History of the Church, 4:42).

One of the reasons the Prophet’s response was so inspired is that the right to enjoy the marvelous gifts of the Holy Ghost is conferred upon every member of the Church soon after baptism. This is in fulfillment of the promise of the Savior: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” (John 14:16).

This powerful gift entitles the leaders and all worthy members of the Church to enjoy the gifts and companionship of the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead whose function is to inspire, reveal, and teach all things. The result of this endowment is that since the Church was organized, the leadership and members have enjoyed, and now enjoy, continuous revelation and inspiration directing them in what is right and good. Inspiration and revelation are so common, so widespread, so universal among the leaders and the members that there is a strong spiritual base underlying what is done. This can be found in the gatherings of the Church, both large and small.

Why does the Church grow and flourish? It does so because of divine direction to the leaders and members. This began in our day when God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith early in the spring of 1820. However, we claim that God’s inspiration is not limited to the Latter-day Saints. The First Presidency has stated: “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. … We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation” (“Statement of the First Presidency regarding God’s Love for All Mankind,” 15 Feb. 1978).

We declare in all solemnity, however, that we know salvation in the world to come is dependent upon accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One factor in salvation is personal revelation. Joseph Smith said: “No man can receive the Holy Ghost without receiving revelations. The Holy Ghost is a revelator” (History of the Church, 6:58).

Some evry interesting stuff here. Thank you for posting this. A lot of these points I have always believed must be true.

Can elaborate a little on this? Joseph Smith said: “No man can receive the Holy Ghost without receiving revelations. The Holy Ghost is a revelator” (History of the Church, 6:58).

[Lstinthwrld]

STrictly doctrinal things or other things that are of interest or concern to us as LDS? And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon...let's please leave the whole Prop 8 thing out. It's been discussed enough.

Whatever you can think of that would be valid in this context.

[pam]

I ask this because there are social issues per se that I have seen varying opinions. Topics of abortion, how many kids to have, what to wear to Church, what kind of music to listen to, what kind of movies to watch.

Or would you like some doctrinal examples?

[Lstinthwrld]

User, "Snow" posts controversial thought experiments. Enlist him.

Me and Snow don't get along. Thank you for the suggestion though.

[Lstinthwrld]

I ask this because there are social issues per se that I have seen varying opinions. Topics of abortion, how many kids to have, what to wear to Church, what kind of music to listen to, what kind of movies to watch.

Or would you like some doctrinal examples?

I would prefer doctrinal issues. Thank you elaborating.

[pam]

One that has been discussed on the forum is a story in the Book of Mormon where Nephi is commanded by God to kill Laban so that they might obtain a history of their people.

The differences of opinion are..would God ever command someone to kill someone?

Hopefully you are just asking for examples and we won't be getting into the entire debate again. You could do an advance search on the site and find threads that deal with this issue.

[Guest Believer_1829]

Joseph Smith-History:

...

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

I believe this is perfectly clear, but I will defend your right to disagree.

Yep, that's one of them. And here is another one (first handwritten account)...

“And while in <the> attitude of calling upon the Lord <in the 16th year of my age> a piller of light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come from above and rested upon me...and the <Lord> opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me Joseph <my son> thy sins are forgiven thee...behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world.”

I defend you right to disagree, also.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Believer_1829

[Guest Believer_1829]

I would prefer doctrinal issues. Thank you elaborating.

Word of Wisdom foods and eating habits.

[Maxel]

So, are we supposed to debate these issues or discuss why the differing opinions among Mormons are indeed different?

I'm ready and raring to go... Just need to make sure I'm heading in the right direction.

[Lstinthwrld]

One that has been discussed on the forum is a story in the Book of Mormon where Nephi is commanded by God to kill Laban so that they might obtain a history of their people.

The differences of opinion are..would God ever command someone to kill someone?

Hopefully you are just asking for examples and we won't be getting into the entire debate again. You could do an advance search on the site and find threads that deal with this issue.

No not here to argue really. I do want to learn.

[pam]

No not here to argue really. I do want to learn.

Ahhh but I used the term "debate" not "argue."

[Lstinthwrld]

Ahhh but I used the term "debate" not "argue."

I stand corrected:p

[Lstinthwrld]

So, are we supposed to debate these issues or discuss why the differing opinions among Mormons are indeed different?

I'm ready and raring to go... Just need to make sure I'm heading in the right direction.

Not looking for a debate just a few opinions.

[StuckinMiddle]

This is my first experience on this site and having just read through this entire thread, I was expecting something very different here. I'm not sure I'm where I want to be.