bytebear Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 No those are not problems. I've served a mission, have a temple recommend, am active in my callings, I've been in the bishopric too. I'm happily married and faithful to my wife. I attend all my meetings.BTW I've known plenty of people who claim they have a testimony of the book of Mormon who don't live moral lives, however.I wish I could have a strong testimony from the Holy Ghost but it just never happened no matter how hard I tried. Maybe some people just don't get one.13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. 14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful. D&C 46:13-14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarfan Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Isn't this standard anti-Mormon posturing. Don't defend your position but simply change topics? I don't know who you are, but I expect better of you.No I'm just trying to help point out that there is a lot more to it than just the book of Mormon. I mean, some people never really click with the book of Mormon. If they do, fantastic! I always had a testimony of the first vision but the book of Mormon never really worked for me. I never got the answer to my prayers that some people do. I mean, I could lie about it and say I did, but I really didn't get an answer to my book of Mormon prayers.I wasn't trying to change topics, I think I clicked on the wrong button or something. It probably didn't make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 No I'm just trying to help point out that there is a lot more to it than just the book of Mormon. I mean, some people never really click with the book of Mormon. If they do, fantastic! I always had a testimony of the first vision but the book of Mormon never really worked for me. I never got the answer to my prayers that some people do. I mean, I could lie about it and say I did, but I really didn't get an answer to my book of Mormon prayers.I wasn't trying to change topics, I think I clicked on the wrong button or something. It probably didn't make any sense. Well, based on D&C 46:14, you can lean on Joseph Smith's testimony. If you believe he was a prophet, then believe his words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarfan Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Well, based on D&C 46:14, you can lean on Joseph Smith's testimony. If you believe he was a prophet, then believe his words.Well that is pretty much what I've had to do my whole life. Believe what others have to say. I just have had to take things on faith.I guess the beauty of that is maybe I am less responsible if in the next life some things don't turn out like we think they will. I've never claimed to speak for God. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Well, is your life better or worse for your decisions? What about the lives around you? Your spouse, children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarfan Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 In some ways better, in some ways worse I guess. The church is a great place to raise children. It helps to keep them in check and keeps them on the straight and narrow. But as an adult it gets so hard to keep going to meetings the way the curriculum continually seems to keep getting dumbed down. Sometimes I sit there in church and wonder if I am still in primary the way the lessons are framed. I still attend but it is so boring. I once knew a fellow who was an investigator, he actually did a good job of defending the church. I asked him why he never joined if he knew so much about the church. He said, the LDS church has the most boring meetings of any religion he had ever investigated. I'm afraid he may be telling the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 In some ways better, in some ways worse I guess. The church is a great place to raise children. It helps to keep them in check and keeps them on the straight and narrow. But as an adult it gets so hard to keep going to meetings the way the curriculum continually seems to keep getting dumbed down. Sometimes I sit there in church and wonder if I am still in primary the way the lessons are framed. I still attend but it is so boring. I once knew a fellow who was an investigator, he actually did a good job of defending the church. I asked him why he never joined if he knew so much about the church. He said, the LDS church has the most boring meetings of any religion he had ever investigated. I'm afraid he may be telling the truth.Sounds like you need to be called to be a Sunday School teacher. What's your bishops number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think the lessons are as dumbed down as we make them. Right now in my ward the Gospel Doctrine class is absolutely excellent, and Elder's Quorrum is usually pretty good- especially when teaching from the Joseph Smith lesson manual. I think the Church is focusing on the basics because as society gets more wicked, we'll need to hear more solid fundamentals. I find no dearth of discussion about the deeper doctrines and issues facing the Church, either at Church itself or in other places (this forum, for example). The lessons may be boring, but they're spiritaully uplifting if we're in tune to the spirit- which is the primary reason for coming together to worship in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarfan Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Yeah, I understand. It is just that our ward has lost so many people the last couple of years. Very few people stick it out for the whole 3 hour block. As soon as Sacrament is over they head for the doors. I still go but it gets harder and harder. And if you ever say anything different then you are labeled. People who I used to have discussions with in our ward seem to be becoming a lot less active. Over the past year I will bet our attendance at church has hit an all-time low. When I ask them where they have been they hem and haw around and say that they probably haven't missed anything anyway. Other churches probably have the same problem too though, keeping members interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Cougarfan: do you live in Utah, by any chance? I've heard some other members from Utah saying they see this in their wards; it seems to be a consequence of Mormonism being the socially 'cool' thing. I've never lived in Utah, and I haven't ever seen this as a problem no matter what kind of ward (family or YSA) I'm in. Then again, I might just have been lucky my whole life when it comes to which wards I'm attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 In some ways better, in some ways worse I guess. The church is a great place to raise children. It helps to keep them in check and keeps them on the straight and narrow. But as an adult it gets so hard to keep going to meetings the way the curriculum continually seems to keep getting dumbed down. Sometimes I sit there in church and wonder if I am still in primary the way the lessons are framed. I still attend but it is so boring. I once knew a fellow who was an investigator, he actually did a good job of defending the church. I asked him why he never joined if he knew so much about the church. He said, the LDS church has the most boring meetings of any religion he had ever investigated. I'm afraid he may be telling the truth.What are you looking for? What makes them boring? Are questions asked? Do you ask questions or participate?I find that when pertinent questions are asked, I'm not bored. If the questions that are asked that everyone knows (who is the Savior of the world?), I get mightily bored. Or if speculation starts. That's a quick way to cause drama, but no real learning happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarfan Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Cougarfan: do you live in Utah, by any chance? I've heard some other members from Utah saying they see this in their wards; it seems to be a consequence of Mormonism being the socially 'cool' thing.I've never lived in Utah, and I haven't ever seen this as a problem no matter what kind of ward (family or YSA) I'm in. Then again, I might just have been lucky my whole life when it comes to which wards I'm attending.Actually I'm in Idaho where there are a lot of members. I've never seen so much apathy though. My family mostly lives in Utah and they have noticed a similar phenomenon. Probably back east or other places this is not occurring. I know that where I am mormonism is the socially cool thing so maybe that is what the deal is. Anyway, I know our Bishop told me recently that he is getting a lot of pressure from the Stake President to get those numbers up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 'Tis the separation of the wheat from the tares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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