Love and marriage

[thews]

:)I find it hard to come to common ground on the topic of “love” and “marriage” in the LDS faith. If a man is “sealed” to more than one woman, and this is how it works in the LDS version of the afterlife, how does “God” define love when it comes to marriage? ...especially if that man is "sealed" to more than one woman? Do they share in heaven? I am going to get married on Dec. 20th of his year (I hope), and I love her so much. How could I possibly “share” her with another woman in heaven if it was only to her that I promise to love and cherish? Can someone define the LDs version of God’s view of love WRT to marriage?

[Just_A_Guy]

1 Corinthians 13 (that's the King James version. )

The LDS concept of marital love isn't all that different from the non-LDS concept. See, e.g., this quotation from Parley Pratt after he had had the concept of Celestial Marriage explained to him:

It was from him [Joseph Smith] that I learned the true dignity and destiny of a son of God, clothed with an eternal priesthood, as the patriarch and sovereign of his countless offspring. It was from him that I learned that the highest dignity of womanhood was, to stand as a queen and priestess to her husband, and to reign for ever and ever as the queen mother of her numerous and still increasing offspring.

I had loved before, but I knew not why. But now I loved–with a pureness–an intensity of elevated, exalted feeling, which would lift my soul from the transitory things of this grovelling sphere and expand it as the ocean. I felt that God was my Heavenly Father indeed; that Jesus was my brother, and that the wife of my bosom was an immortal, eternal companion; a kind ministering angel, given to me as a comfort, and a crown of glory for ever and ever. In short, I could now love with the spirit and with the understanding also.

Now, as to how "love" can be "love" when you're loving more than one person simultaneously? I don't pretend to know. I take it as a matter of faith that it's possible, but as I do not anticipate living polygamously in this life or the next I haven't given it much thought.

[thews]

1 Corinthians 13 (that's the King James version. )

The LDS concept of marital love isn't all that different from the non-LDS concept. See, e.g., this quotation from Parley Pratt after he had had the concept of Celestial Marriage explained to him:

Now, as to how "love" can be "love" when you're loving more than one person simultaneously? I don't pretend to know. I take it as a matter of faith that it's possible, but as I do not anticipate living polygamously in this life or the next I haven't given it much thought.

If Joseph Smtih is "sealed" to more than one woman, and some of them married to other men, my question centers on the LDS concept of "love." Did Joseph Smith not love some of his wives, or did he love them all?

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm not quite sure what you're driving at, but I don't find that the past LDS experience with polygamy (let alone Joseph Smith's experiments with polyandry) has a significant influence in the day-to-day relationship that Mormons enjoy with their spouses.

As for Joseph Smith: I would venture to guess that Joseph Smith did love all of his wives--or at least made a conscious effort to do so. But I'm no historian. If you want the viewpoint of his polyandrous wives, the best thing to do would be to read their own words.

[thews]

I'm not quite sure what you're driving at, but I don't find that the past LDS experience with polygamy (let alone Joseph Smith's experiments with polyandry) has a significant influence in the day-to-day relationship that Mormons enjoy with their spouses.

Please explain what you mean by "experimets" by Joseh Smith. Joseph Smith said that polygamy was commanded by God... why isn't it today?

As for Joseph Smith: I would venture to guess that Joseph Smith did love all of his wives--or at least made a conscious effort to do so. But I'm no historian. If you want the viewpoint of his polyandrous wives, the best thing to do would be to read their own words.

So Joseph Smith did in fact "fall in love" with 38 women? Do Mormon men being "sealed" to women they aren't married to "in love" with them?

[Just_A_Guy]

Please explain what you mean by "experimets" by Joseh Smith. Joseph Smith said that polygamy was commanded by God... why isn't it today?

As you have purported to understand elsewhere, there's a difference between polygamy and polyandry. The Church as a whole practiced the former. Joseph Smith also practiced the latter, but the Church did not follow his lead.

So Joseph Smith did in fact "fall in love" with 38 women?

How on earth would I know?

FWIW, I personally have quibbles with the idea of "falling in love"; but I suppose that's more a cultural perspective than a theological one.

Do Mormon men being "sealed" to women they aren't married to "in love" with them?

I wouldn't. Can't speak as to others, though. Some of Joseph Smith's (and, for that matter, Brigham Young's) wives were in their mid-to-late fifties, and those marriages almost seem to have been--for lack of a better term--marriages of convenience--a primarily economic partnership whereby otherwise unmarried women could have claim on someone for their support.

[bytor2112]

:)I find it hard to come to common ground on the topic of “love” and “marriage” in the LDS faith. If a man is “sealed” to more than one woman, and this is how it works in the LDS version of the afterlife, how does “God” define love when it comes to marriage? ...especially if that man is "sealed" to more than one woman? Do they share in heaven? I am going to get married on Dec. 20th of his year (I hope), and I love her so much. How could I possibly “share” her with another woman in heaven if it was only to her that I promise to love and cherish? Can someone define the LDs version of God’s view of love WRT to marriage?

Well, suppose you are LDS and you are sealed to your love in the Temple on December 20th and a few years later she passes away unexpectedly. After a while you date and fall in love and remarry........wouldn't you still love your deceased wife also?

[Justice]

Are you saying you can only have 1 child because you can't love them all?

These are concepts (with the discussion about Joseph Smith being a prophet, yet being a man capable of making mistakes) that you just don't understand. I think these understandings come from accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture.

You're just not going to get there any other way.

[bytor2112]

Did prior dispensation Prophets that had more than one wife love all there wives?

[Just_A_Guy]

In all fairness, Bytor, at least some of them apparently didn't--at least, not equally (c.f. Abraham and Jacob).

[Traveler]

:)I find it hard to come to common ground on the topic of “love” and “marriage” in the LDS faith. If a man is “sealed” to more than one woman, and this is how it works in the LDS version of the afterlife, how does “God” define love when it comes to marriage? ...especially if that man is "sealed" to more than one woman? Do they share in heaven? I am going to get married on Dec. 20th of his year (I hope), and I love her so much. How could I possibly “share” her with another woman in heaven if it was only to her that I promise to love and cherish? Can someone define the LDs version of God’s view of love WRT to marriage?

It is my impression that you will learn a great deal about love after you are married and through your relationship of love you and your spouse have a child. Not only will your love have an opportunity to increase it will also be shared. Hopefully that love and shared love will be great and become eternal or sealed.

It is possible that when couples share their love in a familly with children that some are not able to participate in that sharing and the family becomes divided and love no longer grows but begins to die. But when a man and a woman unite in their love to share that love with children then the love will grow beyond anything you have ever experienced.

Sometimes sharing makes love greater.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

:)I find it hard to come to common ground on the topic of “love” and “marriage” in the LDS faith. If a man is “sealed” to more than one woman, and this is how it works in the LDS version of the afterlife, how does “God” define love when it comes to marriage? ...especially if that man is "sealed" to more than one woman? Do they share in heaven? I am going to get married on Dec. 20th of his year (I hope), and I love her so much. How could I possibly “share” her with another woman in heaven if it was only to her that I promise to love and cherish? Can someone define the LDs version of God’s view of love WRT to marriage?

Not all members will be allowed to marry more than one wife. Why are worried over this issue in the first place. In fact, the pure love of Christ is extended to not only to your companion but others who GOD may give until you if it was possible.

Going back to my first statement, what was noteworthy about a vision of Adam and Eve seen by Joseph Smith, he only saw Adam and Eve. They were both resurrected. No other women were on the left of Eve.

Do not fret over this and learn to love and serve her eternally and not of the world and your marriage have fullness of joy.

[MormonMama]

Joseph Smith said that polygamy was commanded by God... why isn't it today?

Why was polygamy allowed/commanded by God at some times in Biblical history, but forbidden at other times? We often do not know or comprehend the Lord's reasons, nor are we necessarily required or expected to. Ours is but to follow Him in faith, whether we understand or not (or perhaps especially when we don't understand).

[nbblood]

Why was polygamy allowed/commanded by God at some times in Biblical history, but forbidden at other times? We often do not know or comprehend the Lord's reasons, nor are we necessarily required or expected to. Ours is but to follow Him in faith, whether we understand or not (or perhaps especially when we don't understand).

Which reminds me of this: Alma 32:16-18

16 Therefore, blessed are they who humble themselves without being compelled to be humble; or rather, in other words, blessed is he that believeth in the word of God, and is baptized without stubbornness of heart, yea, without being brought to know the word, or even compelled to know, before they will believe.

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

And, of course, the myriad of cross-references that go with it.

[Hemidakota]

Perfect post!

[thews]

Well, suppose you are LDS and you are sealed to your love in the Temple on December 20th and a few years later she passes away unexpectedly. After a while you date and fall in love and remarry........wouldn't you still love your deceased wife also?

In this scenario I can see both occasions being in love. What I'm talking about something a Mormon said on another board, where he was Temple married to other women, but not in an active polygamous way. This scenario was said to be part of the afterlife as explained in the D&C. In that scenario, I find the sanctity of love not required for marriage, which is why I asked the question.

[thews]

Are you saying you can only have 1 child because you can't love them all?

No that's not what I'm saying at all.

These are concepts (with the discussion about Joseph Smith being a prophet, yet being a man capable of making mistakes) that you just don't understand. I think these understandings come from accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture.

Are you saying Joseph Smith made a mistake regarding polygamy?

You're just not going to get there any other way.

I don't understand how accepting the BOM answers this question? It is in the Mormon doctrine in the D&C isn't it? I don't pretend to know what life after death encompasses, but the question revolves around the bond of love between a man and a woman, or between one man and more than one woman.

I need to know if you believe polygamy was a mistake to understand.

Thanks

[Hemidakota]

Not true....he may be sealed to another by the death of the first woman if she is not sealed herself to someone else. However, Polygamy is only allowed by the Savior for few members of that glory. Not all will be invited to do so.

Joseph Smith was sealed to other women prior to his death, some for the name sake, but his love for Emma exceeded others.

[thews]

It is my impression that you will learn a great deal about love after you are married and through your relationship of love you and your spouse have a child. Not only will your love have an opportunity to increase it will also be shared. Hopefully that love and shared love will be great and become eternal or sealed.

It is possible that when couples share their love in a familly with children that some are not able to participate in that sharing and the family becomes divided and love no longer grows but begins to die. But when a man and a woman unite in their love to share that love with children then the love will grow beyond anything you have ever experienced.

Sometimes sharing makes love greater.

The Traveler

I think I know what love is, but the question specifically asks what the LDS believe God's view on "love" when it comes to marriage, and has nothing to do with children. A person can have many kids and love them all, but a man doesn't need to love a woman to marry her in the LDS faith if I'm understanding correctly.

[thews]

Not all members will be allowed to marry more than one wife. Why are worried over this issue in the first place.

Why discount it?

In fact, the pure love of Christ is extended to not only to your companion but others who GOD may give until you if it was possible.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Going back to my first statement, what was noteworthy about a vision of Adam and Eve seen by Joseph Smith, he only saw Adam and Eve. They were both resurrected. No other women were on the left of Eve.

Again I don't understand. I come from polygamy... its in my blood. My question centers on what love is to marriage from an LDS perspective.

Do not fret over this and learn to love and serve her eternally and not of the world and your marriage have fullness of joy.

Well thanks, but I'm still curious which is why I asked the question.

[Hemidakota]

Can you honestly share equal love to more than the first companion? I can't in mortality. This is a problem where we need to learn the 'pure love of Christ’; we equally love the first as to give the same amount of love to another. Even I cannot fathom this. Perhaps, this is why I will never be a candidate for another sealing in the next life or this life. :)

This was a observation seen when Joseph Smith was given this vision...if anyone beside Abraham and a few others I failed to mentioned were granted permission to have more than one wife; I would expect Michael or Adam to have the same. That is not the case. Even if you are product of a Polygamy marriage, you could still be born to another family that does not practice this type of marriage.

[Traveler]

I think I know what love is, but the question specifically asks what the LDS believe God's view on "love" when it comes to marriage, and has nothing to do with children. A person can have many kids and love them all, but a man doesn't need to love a woman to marry her in the LDS faith if I'm understanding correctly.

May I state this another way. Love is what you give to others - Lust is what you expect for yourself.

The Traveler

[thews]

Why was polygamy allowed/commanded by God at some times in Biblical history, but forbidden at other times? We often do not know or comprehend the Lord's reasons, nor are we necessarily required or expected to. Ours is but to follow Him in faith, whether we understand or not (or perhaps especially when we don't understand).

I don't understand your logic. Before the time of Chirst, Jesus had not yet died for our sins. I don't agree that God commanded polygamy before Christ, though it is mentioned. If God commanded Joseph Smith to practice polygamy under the threat of a sword, then it must be God's will that polygamy is what he wants, which is why I asked the question.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't understand your logic. Before the time of Chirst, Jesus had not yet died for our sins. I don't agree that God commanded polygamy before Christ, though it is mentioned. If God commanded Joseph Smith to practice polygamy under the threat of a sword, then it must be God's will that polygamy is what he wants, which is why I asked the question.

Unless either a) the purposes for which God had the Church practice polygamy have been accomplished; or b) God does, in the long term, want the Church practicing polygamy; but He has made an allowance because of the political climate we live in.

[thews]

Unless either a) the purposes for which God had the Church practice polygamy have been accomplished; or b) God does, in the long term, want the Church practicing polygamy; but He has made an allowance because of the political climate we live in.

One of the tests the bible speaks on regarding whether or not a prophet is speaking for God, is that it will never change... regardless of political climate.