Is The Church Still Carnal?

[Guest JimmyWest]

Carnal Church

1 Corinthians 3 (NIV)

1 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly-mere infants in Christ.

2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?

Paul states that he could not address the people as spiritual, that he had to address them as worldly, or carnal, whom he described as "infants in Christ"

He goes on to say that he could not give them solid food, but had to give them milk as babies. The fact that he could not give them solid food is an indicator of their infancy in Christ. Only MATURE believers could handle solid food.

So what is the indicator of their lack of growth and maturity? It is in the next verse: He states that they are STILL worldly, and the evidence of that is that there is jealousy, and quarreling among them. In the KJ version he says there is envying, and strife, and divisions.

I want to ask you a question: Look around in the church today - Is there not still jealousy, quarreling, strife and division? Not only is it there, but it is epidemic.

So, Paul is telling them that they are not acting like Christ, but instead, like mere men. Paul understood that men who are worldly may not understand or even accept issues of a spiritual nature.

In 1 Corinthians 2 he states: (NIV)

13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

He is saying that the man without the Spirit does NOT accept things that come from the spirit. By "without the spirit" he doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit is not present. He means that those particular people can not hear the Holy Spirit because they are listening to their flesh. They have not opened up their spiritual ears. He goes on to say that issues of a spiritual nature (that go beyond their realm of knowledge) are foolishness to those people.

The reason for that is in the previous verse: "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words." People who are spiritual receive revelation that goes beyond human knowledge and teaching. That even includes the written word. Natural or carnal believers will not accept anything that goes beyond the written word. They are in a theological bubble, with God on the outside.

The next verse describes an advantage that comes from the Holy Spirit, to those who are spiritual. "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" This is because of two factors. Man receives great wisdom from the Holy Spirit. And a spiritually mature believer will share the nature of God.

He is saying that the wisdom that man receives from the Holy Spirit allows him to judge all things, and because of his closeness to God, he will not be subject to any man's judgment.

Then he goes on, in the next verse to say why: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

This is incredible! He is saying that no man can instruct the spiritual believer, because the spiritual believer has the MIND OF CHRIST.

How many believers have to ACT like Christ when they go out, but are different at home? Spiritual believers do not have to act like Christ, because they ARE like Christ, even possessing his mind (wisdom and nature)

Based on these scriptures, I believe that the Christian church is a body of carnal believers, that MOST of them are still carnal. Paul said: "You are still worldly." He didn't have a problem that they were carnal. His problem was that all that time passed and they were STILL carnal.

So, why is the church STILL carnal? Here is the problem. Paul stopped short of explaining to them (at least in what is written) how to become spiritual. That is why the church has not heeded this scripture and is still carnal. Oh, how to become spiritual is in the Bible. It is all over the Bible. But no where in the Bible is there a scripture that states: "This is how you become spiritual….."

People, there is jealousy, envy, strife and separation all around in the church. That means that you are still carnal. It is not your fault. Most preachers don't know how to teach spiritual growth. It is time to grow beyond your carnality, and get where God wants you to be. Spiritual growth does not come from studying scripture. It comes from a spiritual one on one relationship with God where he is able to speak new revelation into your spiritual ears. It comes from giving Him every hour of every day and spending every day with God in your heart and on your mind. It comes from putting him first above everything else and allowing him to really take over your life. That means total self-giving - surrender. It comes from totally trusting Him with your very lives. It comes from loving all you come in contact with, not just in word, but in deed - a life of kindness with a loving heart.

It means that you have to open your heart and mind.. God is going to reveal things to you, about himself, that are not written. You must not be bound by the boundaries of scripture.

It's time to wake up and grow, church. A mature church would be united with one purpose - loving God. A mature church would not have denominations and multiple doctrines. A mature church would be one united Body of Believers.

[Dr T]

Interesting post. I guess that depends on what really goes into that sir. Is that a free for all definition of what truely is a godly church? Is it about the essentials vs. the non-essetial doctrines? I'd say it's not a free for all.

[pam]

Spiritual growth does not come from studying scripture.

Interesting since you based your entire post on scripture.

[Dr T]

Pammy, maybe you are supposed to read between the lines and not use his words for what they say sometimes. It's hard to cover all aspects of things sometimes. I was just teasing a little. Still an interesting post though.

[Guest JimmyWest]

Interesting post. I guess that depends on what really goes into that sir. Is that a free for all definition of what truely is a godly church? Is it about the essentials vs. the non-essetial doctrines? I'd say it's not a free for all.

I guage the godliness of a church by the amount or extent of spiritual manifestation during the service. God does not reside in the church building. It is the spiritual believers who bring God in with them. If there are no spiritual believers, then God is not present. That is why there are so many dead churches. I have no idea as to what a LDS service is like. I have never been to one. But my spiritual awakening happened as a result of me attending a black pentecostal church.

[Guest JimmyWest]

Interesting since you based your entire post on scripture.

True, but knowing that scripture will not make a person spiritual. Being spiritual involves going to God in a realm that is beyond scripture. Scripture only teaches you ABOUT God. Really knowing him requires a spiritual relationship.

[Dr T]

I have not looked at your webpage so I don't know what it says. From your last post it seems like "If you're mystic then maybe that's it! You're in!" Ok, maybe just "touchy feely", Buddhist, Vineyard Church, Unitarian, etc...? What of the "Where two or more are gathered in my name..." thing? (Darn there's the use of scripture again, I guess that's out.

[Guest JimmyWest]

I have not looked at your webpage so I don't know what it says. From your last post it seems like "If you're mystic then maybe that's it! You're in!" Ok, maybe just "touchy feely", Buddhist, Vineyard Church, Unitarian, etc...? What of the "Where two or more are gathered in my name..." thing? (Darn there's the use of scripture again, I guess that's out.

Dr T, I am not a mystic. I am not any of those things you listed. I am a former evengelist who, 10 years ago, God started physically speaking to. I hear his voice, can ask questions and get answers. I've learned that not one church organization or denomonation has it all correct. I 've learned that since the days of Adam, God has only wanted two things from us and that has not changed - 1. Trust him completely. 2. Love each other. A third was added later - 3. Accept Jesus

Here is the catch concerning "Where two are gathered in my name..." There s a big "but". And the but is "But, it must be within the will of God."

One thing of importance I teach is living a life of kindness with a love-filled heart.

[kpatrey]

I have no idea as to what a LDS service is like. I have never been to one.

Maybe you should come to one?? You might be pleasantly surprised.

[Guest JimmyWest]

Maybe you should come to one?? You might be pleasantly surprised.

Would I, as a non-member, be allowed to attend a service?

[pam]

Absolutely

[annewandering]

You do know that even if 300 people in a meeting are spiritual, if you are not listening then you are not going to feel that spirit?

If you look for a pentecostal experience it wont be in the LDS church. We are pretty quiet except for having lots of kids around.

[Dr T]

That is true.

[pam]

You do know that even if 300 people in a meeting are spiritual, if you are not listening then you are not going to feel that spirit?

That is very true Anne. If your mind is wondering on your tasks for the upcoming week or what you are fixing for dinner..etc..you won't feel the spirit.

[Guest JimmyWest]

That is true.

Dr T - I posted another thread called "Acquiring and Sharing the Nature of God". It describes the process of growing and maturing spiritually. Not one single person has commented on it. I would appreciate your comments and views on it. Thank You.

[Guest JimmyWest]

You do know that even if 300 people in a meeting are spiritual, if you are not listening then you are not going to feel that spirit?

If you look for a pentecostal experience it wont be in the LDS church. We are pretty quiet except for having lots of kids around.[/QUOTAnne - Are there any believers in the Mormon Church who speak in "Tongues"?

[Dr T]

If your mind is wondering on your tasks for the upcoming week or what you are fixing for dinner..etc..you won't feel the spirit.

That is interesting Pammy. Would you say humans are more powerful than the Holy Spirit in that way? We can just have our minds wonder and we can overcome or overpower the Spirit of God? Thanks

[Guest JimmyWest]

That is interesting Pammy. Would you say humans are more powerful than the Holy Spirit in that way? We can just have our minds wonder and we can overcome or overpower the Spirit of God? Thanks

My opinion is that we can definately be distracted from the spirit.

[pam]

That's not what I meant by my comment. I was referring to Anne's comment about a spiritual meeting with 300 people..if you aren't listening you won't feel the spirit that is there. I wouldn't call that overpower or overcoming the Spirit. You just aren't as intune as you could be if you were listening.

[Guest JimmyWest]

You do know that even if 300 people in a meeting are spiritual, if you are not listening then you are not going to feel that spirit?

If you look for a pentecostal experience it wont be in the LDS church. We are pretty quiet except for having lots of kids around.

Anne - Are there any believers in the Mormon Church who speak in tongues?

[pam]

My opinion is that we can definately be distracted from the spirit.

I do agree with that.

[Guest JimmyWest]

That's not what I meant by my comment. I was referring to Anne's comment about a spiritual meeting with 300 people..if you aren't listening you won't feel the spirit that is there. I wouldn't call that overpower or overcoming the Spirit. You just aren't as intune as you could be if you were listening.

When a person is mature in God, that is spiritually mature, there is no conscious effort required to listen, because you are already doing it anyways.

[Maxel]

JimmyWest, some of the comments on your website have me concerned. I have some questions.

-Do you believe the world is less sinful now (after Christ's death) than beforehand?

-What is your opinion of the canonical Bible (excluding the apocrypha)?

-Has God given into His anger and act in ways that makes Him regret His actions ("regret" as in "wishing He hadn't done what He's done")?

-Do you believe that the message of Christ's Atonement was taught before His life? Was Christ the Messiah?

-What is Christ's relation to the Father?

[Dr T]

I posted a new thread on that question for you Pammy because I didn't want to hijack Mr. West's thread.

[kpatrey]

Would I, as a non-member, be allowed to attend a service?

Anyone can attend a Sunday service, member or not. You would just need to check the times in your area. Some start early, some later. If you decide to go, let me know how it was.