Rider Posted October 19, 2009 Report Posted October 19, 2009 I'm a freelance writer for DemandStudios.com. Writers on the site pick stories from a wide range of topics and write short 'how to' or informational articles. I've written a few articles on religion, like a brief summary of the origin stories from the major world religions.Anyway, I'm working on an article to explain two controversial doctrines between Mormons and Evangelicals. I'm really trying to be as balanced and accurate as possible. I certainly don't agree with some of your doctrines, but I've seen how distorting your beliefs only makes the situation worse. I'd like your help clarifying a quote I found.I'm trying to do a summary of what each group teaches about salvation, and I found this article, LDS.org - Ensign Article - Salvation: By Grace or by Works?. Near the end, it says this:The atoning power of God unto salvation is a freely available gift from him—but our works of righteousness are essential to bring the gift into power in our lives.How is a gift free if we have to work for it? Would you say this is a good quote to use? Keep in mind it's a short article, so I can't have too many long quotes.
Connie Posted October 19, 2009 Report Posted October 19, 2009 Perhaps "freely available" meaning anyone and everyone can obtain it if they do the proper works.We believe there are two parts to the atonement. Resurrection and salvation. Resurrection is available to everyone regardless of whether they are good or bad. Resurrection meaning the spirit and the body will reunite never to be separated again. Salvation is cleansing from sin and being able to enter the presence of God which requires the proper works, so it is available to everyone as long as they do the works of salvation. I don't know if i explained that very well at all. So here are some links that may help.LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - GraceLDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - ResurrectionLDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Salvation
Just_A_Guy Posted October 19, 2009 Report Posted October 19, 2009 "Rider, I'll give you a quarter if you come to my office and get it by noon tomorrow." Is the quarter really free?
Rider Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Posted October 20, 2009 "Rider, I'll give you a quarter if you come to my office and get it by noon tomorrow."Is the quarter really free?There's a big difference between a mortal man with a physical object and a supernatural being with an intangible spiritual blessing/force. Let's say you had the ability to effortlessly transport the quarter to me instantly. Would you still make me come get it? If so, why?Regardless, I wasn't trying to debate this with you. I was just wondering what you guys think it means and if you think it's a good quote to use.
Seminarysnoozer Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 I'm a freelance writer for DemandStudios.com. Writers on the site pick stories from a wide range of topics and write short 'how to' or informational articles. I've written a few articles on religion, like a brief summary of the origin stories from the major world religions.Anyway, I'm working on an article to explain two controversial doctrines between Mormons and Evangelicals. I'm really trying to be as balanced and accurate as possible. I certainly don't agree with some of your doctrines, but I've seen how distorting your beliefs only makes the situation worse. I'd like your help clarifying a quote I found.I'm trying to do a summary of what each group teaches about salvation, and I found this article, LDS.org - Ensign Article - Salvation: By Grace or by Works?. Near the end, it says this:How is a gift free if we have to work for it? Would you say this is a good quote to use? Keep in mind it's a short article, so I can't have too many long quotes.You don't have to work for it, you have to work to make it significant. Like If you get a scholarship to college. What good would that free gift be if you didn't want to go to college or weren't planning to study when you got there? The gift of salvation (from mortality) is like going to grade school, free to everyone. LDS believe there is life after grade school, so to speak, and if you want the scholarship for higher learning you've got to get good grades here.
john doe Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 I'm a freelance writer for DemandStudios.com. Writers on the site pick stories from a wide range of topics and write short 'how to' or informational articles. I've written a few articles on religion, like a brief summary of the origin stories from the major world religions.Anyway, I'm working on an article to explain two controversial doctrines between Mormons and Evangelicals. I'm really trying to be as balanced and accurate as possible. I certainly don't agree with some of your doctrines, but I've seen how distorting your beliefs only makes the situation worse. I'd like your help clarifying a quote I found.I'm trying to do a summary of what each group teaches about salvation, and I found this article, LDS.org - Ensign Article - Salvation: By Grace or by Works?. Near the end, it says this:How is a gift free if we have to work for it? Would you say this is a good quote to use? Keep in mind it's a short article, so I can't have too many long quotes.Why not stick with something you have a clue about? Most successful writers write about things they have knowledge of. Your recent thread that turned into circular talk demonstrates to me that you have no idea what LDS believe, or at least you can't put it down in words.
Just_A_Guy Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) There's a big difference between a mortal man with a physical object and a supernatural being with an intangible spiritual blessing/force. Let's say you had the ability to effortlessly transport the quarter to me instantly. Would you still make me come get it? If so, why?The term "free" is generally defined from the perspective of the recipient. The giver's power to charge a fee, or not charge a fee, or give more than he in fact elects to give, is wholly irrelevant.Is something no longer free just because you have to go and get it?Regardless, I wasn't trying to debate this with you. I was just wondering what you guys think it means and if you think it's a good quote to use.I think it's decent, though if your audience thinks like you do than in fairness you're going to have to explain how Mormons resolve what you perceive as a conflict in the phrase "free to whomever comes and gets it". One should also note (though this is minor) that Gerald Lund was not a general authority of the Church at the time he wrote that article. Edited October 20, 2009 by Just_A_Guy
rameumptom Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 · Hidden Hidden I think you can find more recent quotes that reflect our current views on Grace and Works. Back in the early 1980s and earlier, the LDS Church focused much on obedience.In the last decade, much more has been said about grace.I see it this way: the Book of Mormon teaches that we are "saved by grace after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25). What is "all we can do?" One prophet in the book of Mormon told his people:And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to atake them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— (Alma 24:11).So, all we can do is repent and believe. LDS believe in many mansions in our Father's kingdom (John 14:2). There are various levels of heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-4, Doctrine and Covenants 76), wherein salvation is given to all who believe on Jesus' name. Where obedience/works comes in isn't in saving us, but in what we become spiritually. Works are the outward expression of our inward faith. The more faithful we become, the greater works we would naturally display. They go hand in hand. As we become more Christ-like through our faith, we become able to stand in the greater light of God, being given a greater mansion or a higher heaven to dwell within. The greatest level of salvation is called exaltation. It is where a person dwells in the fulness of God's glory, receiving all of His blessings and gifts.LDS believe in a near universal salvation. Only the most wicked of the wicked will spend eternity in hell. All others are saved by Christ's atonement, by either accepting it here in mortality, or accepting it in the Spirit World/Prison-the place spirits await the resurrection (see 1 Pet 3:18-20, 4:6).We actually have a more liberal belief in the free gift of salvation than most traditional Christians do. We believe that all Christians will be saved. We believe that all mankind will receive a chance to become Christian, either in this life or the Spirit World. And we believe that greater rewards await those who become more Christ-like.
Recommended Posts