2 Nephi 25:23

[rjjockers]

"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23)

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

So how do you know when you have given your best efforts?

[ryanh]

First, I agree with Stephen Robinson that we often misintrepret 2Nep25:23. It makes no sense that there is any "grace" if it actually requires any works. It is afterall, grace, which by definition is unearned.

From the book Believing Christ:

"AFTER ALL WE CAN DO"

In my opinion some of the blame for our misapplication of gospel superlatives and other similarly obsessive reasoning comes from a misunderstanding of 2 Nephi 25:23: "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." (Italics added.)

At first glance at this scripture, we might think that grace is offered to us only chronologically after we have completed doing all we can do, but this is demonstrably false, for we have already received many manifestations of God's grace before we even come to this point. By his grace, we live and breathe. By grace, we are spiritually begotten children of heavenly parents and enjoy divine prospects. By grace, a plan was prepared and a savior designated for humanity when Adam and Eve fell. By grace, the good news of this gospel comes to us and informs us of our eternal options. By grace, we have the agency to accept the gospel when we hear it. By the grace that comes through faith in Christ, we start the repentance process; and by grace, we are justified and made part of God's kingdom even while that process is still incomplete. The grace of God has been involved in our spiritual progress from the beginning and will be involved in our progress until the end.

It therefore belittles God's grace to think of it as only a cherry on top added at the last moment as a mere finishing touch to what we have already accomplished on our own without any help from God. Instead the reverse would be a truer proposition: our efforts are the cherry on top added to all that God has already done for us.

Actually, I understand the preposition "after" in 2 Nephi 25:23 to be a preposition of separation rather than a preposition of time. It denotes logical separateness rather than temporal sequence. We are saved by grace "apart from all we can do," or "all we can do notwithstanding," or even "regardless of all we can do." Another acceptable paraphrase of the sense of the verse might read, "We are still saved by grace, after all is said and done."

In addition, even the phrase "all we can do" is susceptible to a sinister interpretation as meaning every single good, deed we could conceivably have ever done. This is nonsense. If grace could operate only in such cases, no one could ever be saved, not even the best among us. It is precisely because we don't always do everything we could have done that we need a savior in the first place, so obviously we can't make doing everything we could have done a condition for receiving grace and being saved! I believe the emphasis in 2 Nephi 25:23 is meant to fall on the word we ("all we can do," as opposed to all he can do). Moreover, "all we can do" here should probably be understood in the sense of "everything we can do," or even "whatever we can do."

Thus, the correct sense of 2 Nephi 25:23 would be that we are ultimately saved by grace apart from whatever we manage to do. Grace is not merely a decorative touch or a finishing bit of trim to top off our own efforts-it is God's participation in the process of our salvation from its beginning to its end. Though I must be intimately involved in

the process of my salvation, in the long run the success of that venture is utterly dependent upon the grace of Christ.

[Just_A_Guy]

So how do you know when you have given your best efforts?

Through the Holy Spirit of Promise.

[ryanh]

Then, how can we know we have done "enough"?

Again, and excerpt from Believing Christ:

BUT WHEN HAVE I DONE ENOUGH?

I have a friend who always asks at about this point, "But when have I done enough? How can I how that I've made it?" This misunderstands the doctrine of grace by asking the wrong question. The right question is "When is my offering acceptable to the Lord? When are my efforts accepted for the time being?" You see, the answer to the former question, "When have I done enough?" is never in this life. Since the goal is perfection, the Lord can never unconditionally approve an imperfect performance. No matter how much we do in mortality, no matter how well we perform, the demand to do better, the pressure to improve and to male progress, will never go away. We have not yet arrived.

In this life we are all unprofitable servants, or to use a more modern term, we are all bad investments. (See, for example, Luke 17: 10; Mosiah 2:2 1 .) From the Savior's perspective, even the most righteous among us cost more to save and maintain than we can produce in return. So if we're looking for the Lord to say, "OK, you've done enough.

Your obligation is fulfilled. You've made it, now relax," we're going to be disappointed. We need to accept the fact that we will never in this life, even through our most valiant efforts, reach the break-even point. We are all unprofitable servants being carried along on the Savior's back by his good will - by his grace.

However, the Lord does say to us, "Given your present circumstances and your present level of maturity, you're doing a decent job. Of course it's not perfect, but your efforts are acceptable for the time being. I am pleased with what you've done." We may not be profitable servants yet in the ultimate sense, but we can still be good and faithful ones in this limited sense. So if we are doing what can reasonably be expected of a loyal disciple in our present circumstances, then we can have faith that our offering is accepted through the grace of God. Of course we're unprofitable-all of us. Yet within the shelter of the covenant, our honest attempts are acceptable for the time being.

In fact, there is a way we can know that our efforts are acceptable, that our covenant is recognized and valid before God. If we experience the gifts of the Spirit or the influence of the Holy Ghost, we can know that we are in the covenant relationship, for the gifts and companionship of the Holy Ghost are given to none else. This is one reason why the gift of the Holy Ghost is given- as a token and assurance of our covenant status and as a down payment to us on the blessings and glory to come if we are faithful. Paul refers to the Holy Ghost as "the earnest of our inheritance" (Eph. 1: 14)) a reference to "earnest money," which, though only a token payment, makes a deal binding when it changes hands. Thus the "earnest [money] of the Spirit in our hearts" (2 Cor. 122; 5:s) assures us of the validity and efficacy of our deal, our covenant, with God.

Do you feel the influence of the Holy Ghost in your life? Do you enjoy the gifts of the Spirit? Then you can know that God accepts your faith, repentance, and baptism and has agreed that "[you] may always have his Spirit to be with [you]." (D&C 20:77.) This is perhaps one reason why the Holy Ghost is called the Comforter, because if we enjoy that gift, we can know that our efforts are acceptable-for now-and that we are justified before God by our faith in Christ. And that is comfort indeed.

Now go buy your own copy.

[rjjockers]

Thus, the correct sense of 2 Nephi 25:23 would be that we are ultimately saved by grace apart from whatever we manage to do. Grace is not merely a decorative touch or a finishing bit of trim to top off our own efforts-it is God's participation in the process of our salvation from its beginning to its end. Though I must be intimately involved in

the process of my salvation, in the long run the success of that venture is utterly dependent upon the grace of Christ.

I see what you are saying, but there is a problem. The Bible teaches in many places that you can do nothing to merit favor from God. We are sinners and therefore have to trust by grace alone(Eph. 2:8-9) through faith alone(Romans 4:1-11) in Christ alone for our salvation. In Matthew, Jesus tells us what is going to happen to people that appeal to their works (even good works) to justify themselves.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Matthew 7:21-23

I have also found the same theme of 2 Nephi 25:23 in other places:

-You cannot be saved in your sins, (The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37)

-You must give your best, (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354.)

-Turn from all former sins and commits them no more, (Teachings of the Presidents of the -Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72)

-If you commit any past sin again, the former sins return, (D&C 82:7).

-Therefore, in order to remain forgiven you must never commit the sin again, (Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).

Just thought it would be good for discussion

[Maxel]

rjjockers-

We "merit" the grace of God through faith in Christ. It's true that we don't "deserve" it, but it is a gift freely given from God, because without His grace we couldn't gain immortality and exaltation- which is His work and glory (Moses 1:37).

2 Nephi 25:23 should not be read as exonerating a man from his wickedness because of his righteousness- indeed, 2 Nephi 25:23 reaffirms the need for grace in our lives.

Think of it this way: the greatest man who ever lived (excluding Christ) who never said a belittling comment to another human being; who never looked lustfully among a woman who wasn't his wife; who always gave 100% of himself to those in need; who boldly declared the Gospel of Christ to all he met; who bridled all his passions and desires- a man like this, who truly gave all that he had in the service of his God, could not be saved because of his good works. Even for the best men on the Earth, Christ's grace is vital to their exaltation and redemption.

Would you have us believe that nothing, not even an attempt to better our lives and follow the Savior's example, is required of us before we are received into the kingdom of God?

By the way, if you'd state your true intentions now that'd be great. Please understand that, judging by the nature of all 4 of your posts on this forum, I'm thinking you're a troll here to belittle the faith and try to prove that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are incompatible. Please be advised that such efforts will prove fruitless and will be a waste of time. If, however, you are here to learn what we believe or seek to expand the limits of your own knowledge, you will be pleasantly rewarded.

[Traveler]

"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23)

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

So how do you know when you have given your best efforts?

The same way one knows when you love G-d with all your heart, might, mind and strength.

The Traveler

[pam]

So how do you know when you have given your best efforts?

To me when you can honestly say from the heart; "Lord I've done all that I can do."