Judaism and works for the dead

[thekabalist]

Hi forum,

As there have been some questions about the works on behalf of the dead I will share the Jewish view with you and perhaps we can learn where we agree and where we are different.

I'll try to keep it simple and as free of jargon as I can as this is a rather complex theme. Judaism believes that the creation existis throughout what we call different "worlds". The word "worlds" here isn't referring to cosmology but rather to what one would think of as parallel dimensions.

In simple terms, we have three spirit worlds and we also have this world where we live in. Now the world where we live in has something that the 3 spirit worlds doesn't: we can perform physical deeds and ordinances. This is why it's often called the "world of action".

What happens is that after you die you are deprived of the possibility of performing physical deeds. That is until the final resurection of course. This is why someone on the physical world must perform stuff on your behalf.

Basically there are two things we do on behalf of the dead: we recite the kaddish which is a sanctification prayer that allows the soul to depart from this earth. Some souls may remain stuck to this world if kaddish isn't said and they aren't pure enough to depart. We say kaddish regularly because it helps the soul achieve higher levels of spirituality.

The second thing we do is this: every commandment that we perform can be done in merit of a deceased person. So many Jews will give donations, pray, have immersions, wear teffilin, or perform other rites on behalf of deceased persons. This will increase the merits the dead have and it will be counted as their actions on the day of judgement.

This is the basic Jewish view. How does it compare to your beliefs?

[Misshalfway]

Wow. There are some amazing similarities.

We believe in different worlds as well.

We also believe that this earth life is the time for "action" as you put it. We believe that certain ordinances are important for exhaltation or the highest of eternal rewards. We can't re-live a dead person's life for them, but we can do proxy baptisms,etc., so they can move forward in the eternities.

It may also be interest to you that one of these ordinances is the Sealing. This is usually done by marrying two people for eternity, but it means more than just the unification of two people. Children are sealed to their parents and parents to their parents. The goal is to seal all of our dead to one another in proper familial relationships so that all the people (or tribes of Israel; born or adopted) may enjoy the blessings promised to Abraham. Blessings, that in a nut shell, would encorporate every blessing involved in exhaltation.

This is why the LDS church is big on geneology and doing temple work for the dead. It's why we build temples in the first place. It's more than just knowing who you are and where you came from. For us, it's about turning the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers. We believe the sealing power was part of what once was part of the house of Israel but was lost. This power was restored to JSmith by Elijah himself. And its about helping each child of God that didn't get a chance to embrace the gospel to have that opportunity even though they missed it during earth life.

I am interested in the Kaddish prayer. This sounds similar to last rites.

And I also wanted to ask for more info on the "immersions". That sounds like baptism. But maybe its different.

Thanks.

[Traveler]

Hi forum,

As there have been some questions about the works on behalf of the dead I will share the Jewish view with you and perhaps we can learn where we agree and where we are different.

I'll try to keep it simple and as free of jargon as I can as this is a rather complex theme. Judaism believes that the creation existis throughout what we call different "worlds". The word "worlds" here isn't referring to cosmology but rather to what one would think of as parallel dimensions.

In simple terms, we have three spirit worlds and we also have this world where we live in. Now the world where we live in has something that the 3 spirit worlds doesn't: we can perform physical deeds and ordinances. This is why it's often called the "world of action".

What happens is that after you die you are deprived of the possibility of performing physical deeds. That is until the final resurection of course. This is why someone on the physical world must perform stuff on your behalf.

Basically there are two things we do on behalf of the dead: we recite the kaddish which is a sanctification prayer that allows the soul to depart from this earth. Some souls may remain stuck to this world if kaddish isn't said and they aren't pure enough to depart. We say kaddish regularly because it helps the soul achieve higher levels of spirituality.

The second thing we do is this: every commandment that we perform can be done in merit of a deceased person. So many Jews will give donations, pray, have immersions, wear teffilin, or perform other rites on behalf of deceased persons. This will increase the merits the dead have and it will be counted as their actions on the day of judgement.

This is the basic Jewish view. How does it compare to your beliefs?

It is interesting to see a Jewish perspective. It is interesting to me that I have also found that many religions outside of Christianity believe in various “proxy” efforts by those in this “empirical” experience (or as has been stated “world) for those that exist at spiritual levels or on spiritual worlds. For example, in Islam the Hajj and the reading of the Koran can be done in proxy for those that have died. The Hajj is interesting to Mormons because of similarities of the Kaaba to the “Celestial room” of the temple. Thus the Hajj is similar to the Mormon “endowment”.

Buddhists also have rights done, not just in behalf of the dead but for all mankind and even (or especially) for non-Buddhists. This is interesting to me because the Mormon work for the dead is inclusive of all that have lived; going beyond non-Mormons to peoples of all faith and even those without any faith.

I have found similar “proxy” efforts with the Hindu. In essence it would appear that most of the world (outside of traditional western Christianity) believes in “proxy” efforts for the other or the dead.

One thing I believe that comes from the Mormon perspective is that salvation is not a me and my blessings kind of thing but that salvation to Mormons is beyond the individual that through salvation becomes part of a grand social structure identified as a “Kingdom” where purpose is not “individualistic” but a concept of “oneness”, “wholeness” and “holiness” that pervades the society of individuals that are bound or sealed together in the same way a man and women in love are bound in their marriage.

The Traveler

[Dravin]

What happens is that after you die you are deprived of the possibility of performing physical deeds. That is until the final resurrection of course. This is why someone on the physical world must perform stuff on your behalf.

I don't think I could have described why we, LDS, perform ordinances on the behalf of the deceased any better.

I'm curious, can somebody who is having these acts performed on their behalf refuse them? A central tenant of the acts performed on behalf of the deceased for the LDS is that they must be accepted by those they are performed for. So for instance if I was baptized by proxy for Bob he is free in the spirit world to effectively say, "Nope, don't want it, keep it." I'm not sure it's neccisarily applicable from your view, but if you donated to a charity or what have you for Bob could he in theory refuse the blessings (or merit) from that?

The second thing we do is this: every commandment that we perform can be done in merit of a deceased person. So many Jews will give donations, pray, have immersions, wear teffilin, or perform other rites on behalf of deceased persons. This will increase the merits the dead have and it will be counted as their actions on the day of judgment.

There are some interesting parallels can be made between the Atonement in Christianity and what you describe here. Basically it could be said that the Savior's surfeit of merit can be joined with our deficit of such to effect the decisions on the day of Judgment.

Also, the LDS consider themselves acting as saviors (note the little "s") for those they perform Temple ordinances in behalf of, as they offer them an opportunity at salvation and exaltation (only the opportunity though, the actual facilitation of salvation and exaltation is through Christ, and as mentioned they must accept it). I suppose I should get to a question. Would you consider yourself in a sense acting as saviors for the deceased when you do those things?

Edited November 19, 2009 by Dravin

[beefche]

Miss 1/2 go to the garment thread. He explains it there.

[Dravin]

Oooh, additional question brought on by this thread: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27829-agreement-between-lds-jewish-nation.html#post445747

Just who can perform these acts on behalf of the dead? Does one need some degree of authority or sanction by authority for the actions to have efficacy? So could I go donate in the name of Bob the Jew and it have effect? Or are there restrictions on this?

For the LDS, Priesthood authority is necessary for proxy work to have efficacy. Though that authority rests in the one performing the ordinance and not necessarily in the one participating.

[thekabalist]

Also, the LDS consider themselves acting as saviors (note the little "s") for those they perform Temple ordinances in behalf of, as they offer them an opportunity at salvation and exaltation (only the opportunity though, the actual facilitation of salvation and exaltation is through Christ, and as mentioned they must accept it). I suppose I should get to a question. Would you consider yourself in a sense acting as saviors for the deceased when you do those things?

In a way yes. Though our concept of salvation may be different. We are definetely contributing to the welfare of the deceased yes.

[thekabalist]

Oooh, additional question brought on by this thread:

Just who can perform these acts on behalf of the dead? Does one need some degree of authority or sanction by authority for the actions to have efficacy? So could I go donate in the name of Bob the Jew and it have effect? Or are there restrictions on this?

I believe some rituals would require being Jewish to perform like the kaddish reciting. But in general anyone can do it.

For the LDS, Priesthood authority is necessary for proxy work to have efficacy. Though that authority rests in the one performing the ordinance and not necessarily in the one participating.

Judaism is the opposite with this respect.

b'shalom!