Thoughts on interpretation

[Kishkumen_Called]

Hey y'all,

I am reading a book that was making the distinction between sin and weakness. There are two phrases in this scripture the author uses that I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to interpret them (the bold portions only).

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 2 Cor. 12:8-10

Context of these verses is that Paul is praying to have some unspecified weakness taken from him; it appears that the Lord did not grant his request.

I have my own ideas but I'd be interested in hearing those of others.

Cheers

[Flyonthewall]

The first thing that comes to mind is:

Ether 12:27

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

[Kishkumen_Called]

I was hoping you could supply your logic and a conclusion as well

Admittedly, this was also one of the scriptures I used to "build my case," as it were.

[pam]

There is a portion of a talk by Marvin J. Ashton that I like that addresses this somewhat:

“Elder Marvin J. Ashton of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles gave a modern example of this in a conference address some years ago. He quoted a young friend who lost his hand when it was crushed in a hydraulic press.

“During the first night there were thoughts of ‘Why me? Was it something in my past? What have I done to deserve this?’ Then I thought, ‘No more rodeo, football, or skiing,’ and I wondered what type of a woman would want a one-handed husband.”

“Then came a fast Sunday when this young man gathered the courage to thank everyone for their prayers in his behalf. He later recalled:

’After the testimony meeting, an admired friend gave me a special blessing. So many questions were answered during his blessing. He told me this accident was not punishment for anything I had done but, rather, an opportunity to help me become a better person and to amplify those particular traits which needed to be developed. He shared the thought that this challenge could make me more understanding of people, problems, and life. As I look back now, each point of his blessing and encouragement has helped in a very fulfilling way.’

“The young man concluded: ‘Today as I look back, I see the challenge of adversity as something upon which to build’ (“Adversity and You,” Ensign, Nov. 1980, 59).” (“Adversity,” Ensign, July 1998, 10, 12)

I think at times we want the bad things to be taken away from us. When in reality facing some of these challenges or weaknesses and learning only strengthens us in the process.

[beefche]

I was hoping you could supply your logic and a conclusion as well

Admittedly, this was also one of the scriptures I used to "build my case," as it were.

Build your case for what?

[Guest mormonmusic]

I think the term weakness is meant to describe the humility that flows from it. When you feel weak in your ability to do something, you tend to ask for help from the Lord in an attitude of humility.

For some reason, the Lord fills humble people with power to achieve their goals, provided they couple such humility with faith and action.

I think this is what the word weakness is referring to -- the tendency for personal weakness to humble us to the point we rely on God.

Some of my most Spirit-filled days and miraculous experiences happened when I kept this prayer in my heart "Heavenly father, help me to rely on thee..."

[Kishkumen_Called]

Some of my most Spirit-filled days and miraculous experiences happened when I kept this prayer in my heart "Heavenly father, help me to rely on thee..."

I had come to a similar conclusion, but without the wonderful encounter with the sublime. I think I will "liken the scriptures unto myself." Thanks for sharing that great experience.

[thekabalist]

This passage seems your typical Jewish struggle with the Yetzer Harah (Inclination towards Evil). We believe men are born with two inclinations: one towards good and one towards evil.

Unlike Evangelical Christianity, Judaism has always believed that there is a purpose in sin. We believe that Inclination towards Evil was given mankind as a means for spiritual maturity. However every now and then our sages struggle and ask G-d to remove it from them. Evidently He does not because conquering the Yetzer Harah is part of the plan for us to progress within our own free will.

At least this is the Jewish perspective.

b'shalom!

[Kishkumen_Called]

thekabalist,

Thank you. Finding out other perspectives, especially from other cultures, is always welcome.

I don't know if Mormonism is lumped with Evangelical Christians, but we also believe that evil does indeed serve a purpose:

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility. 2 Ne. 2:11

As an aside, I've heard people guessing that what Paul was referring to was some physical characteristic or ailment - a weakness of the mortal state, not necessarily a sin. Whether it was an inclination towards evil or some physical defect - the end outcome is the same. Come unto me and I will heal you - even if I don't remove it.

Cheers

[thekabalist]

Oh not at all. I've come to find that you guys are far closer to Judaism than Evangelical Christianity.

thekabalist,

I don't know if Mormonism is lumped with Evangelical Christians, but we also believe that evil does indeed serve a purpose:

[Misshalfway]

I don't necessarily see sin and weakness as the same thing either. I like the word "corruption". It seems to describe the human condition better. I also think its important to understand the difference in terms of how we evaluate ourselves and our spiritual performance (not that I like that word much). I don't know.....I guess I think we mormons need to learn this more as we tend to be perfectionists and then stumble over it. I mean its ok to be weak! It's ok to have lifelong battles against health issues or temptations or character flaws because its all swallowed up in Christ.

Having said that, I feel for Paul. I think a few of my prayers have been concerning stuff God won't remove from me and trying to get my heart to accept. Can't say I am to the point where I am celebrating my weakness. But I can say that it makes acceptance of my circumstances and trials easier. It definitely makes me grateful when I see God empower my efforts with His influence especiallly when my strength is exhausted. And I remember as a missionary, or even after that, feeling the fun (if I can use that word) of teaching with the power of God woven into a lesson or a talk I was giving.

Been thinking lately about the 13th article of faith and wondering why it is we seek to be able to endure all things. I am not sure I want to endure. I'd rather be spared. But as others have posted, there is wisdom in the effectual struggle. And if we see the hand of God work inside our best efforts, then the seeds of bitterness won't have as much power. Not that battling them doesn't help a person grow.