What "blessings" Come From Tithing

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 1 2005, 05:15 PM

Jason,

You're in denial... literally denying the evidence you once received concerning the Book of Mormon and all other things associated with the official doctrine of the Church.

It's not denial. I admit that I received said witnesses. I also realize, unlike you, that they are self-manufactured. I saw, felt, and heard what I wanted to see, feel and hear.

That’s what I meant. Or in other words, you appear to be in denial of the witness you received from God, and you now believe that witness was something only from your own mind. Or at least that appears to be what you are saying.

Originally posted by Jason@Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM

You, my strangely religious friend, are the one in denial.  You deny that said testimonies are in fact produced from within your own framework of reality.

Yes, I do deny that the witness I received from God was only from my own mind, but only because I know that witness came from God, and not my own mind.

And Jason, just because you now believe that witness came from only your own mind, it doesn’t necessarily mean that witness came only from your own mind. Or in other words, it could be that you now simply do not believe that witness came from God, when in fact it really did.

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 1 2005, 05:15 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM

It would be one thing to say you don't understand, or that you can't see how these things can be true, but it's a totally different matter to choose to actually deny the evidence you received, if indeed you did receive that evidence according to your own testimony.

And as I said, I suggest you prepare yourself for what you will say to God once you see Him, or should I say see Him again, on the day of judgment, because He will be expecting you to answer for what you have done and are continuing to do.

Oh, I'm working on a list on my blog about what I'll say to 'em. Not that I believe I'll have that chance, but at least, electronically, I can tell em off!

←

Heh, you’re writing a list of things to say to people you really don’t believe exist?

Why on Earth would you be doing that?

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2005, 06:09 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM

You, my strangely religious friend, are the one in denial.  You deny that said testimonies are in fact produced from within your own framework of reality.

Yes, I do deny that the witness I received from God was only from my own mind, but only because I know that witness came from God, and not my own mind.

And Jason, just because you now believe that witness came from only your own mind, it doesn’t necessarily mean that witness came only from your own mind. Or in other words, it could be that you now simply do not believe that witness came from God, when in fact it really did.

Well, if you can come up with a scientific test to prove that said witnesses are not the product of your own mind, I'd be happy to take it.

In the mean time, Reason trumphs religion.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Jason :In the mean time, Reason trumphs religion

Only in your mind. :)

[dizzysmiles]

Mabey the reason it wasn't real Jason was becasue drugs will do that to you.

[dizzysmiles]

Jay did something happen so horrid that you have turned against the church? was there something you were doing that the church didn't approve of and so you went agianst it? I think you should go to one of these addictive programs the church offers and sit and listen to the people there, the only way they have gotten over the temptations is threough the 12 step process which is beliving in a higher being and beliveing we have to make our wrongs right. So to the grandma incidint. she was killed while my dad was on his mission by a boy in her ward.. he did not go to jail. He did however know right from wrong and what he did was wrong.so the whole tihng about your right and wrong is def. bull crap. second becasue of the savior i know i cansee her one dayin the near future

[Jason]

deleted

[dizzysmiles]

Jason, I am deeply sorry that i offended you I was just joking. I guess what I write on here doesn't show my emotion to let you know im kidding. your very interesting and i like talkin with you. and I thought dis was me that you were swearing to, i just relized you werent saying, diz you were saying dis. so thanks.

[Jason]

Originally posted by dizzysmiles@Nov 1 2005, 07:47 PM

Jason, I am deeply sorry that i offended you I was just joking. I guess what I write on here doesn't show my emotion to let you know im kidding. your very interesting and i like talkin with you. and I thought dis was me that you were swearing to, i just relized you werent saying, diz you were saying dis. so thanks.

Apology accepted.

Jay did something happen so horrid that you have turned against the church?

No. Though you might count the 3 hours of boredom every sunday of my life as "horrid". That doesn't even begin to touch the Mission...

was there something you were doing that the church didn't approve of and so you went agianst it?

Does thinking for myself count? Yes? Ok then, that's what I did.

  I think you should go to one of these addictive programs the church offers and sit and listen to the people there, the only way they have gotten over the temptations is threough the 12 step process which is beliving in a higher being and beliveing we have to make our wrongs right.

Never in my life as a Mormon did I violate your moral code. And other than an occasional drink, I have yet to break it still.

So to the grandma incidint. she was killed while my dad was on his mission by a boy in her ward.. he did not go to jail.  He did however know right from wrong and what he did was wrong.so the whole tihng about your right and wrong is def. bull crap. second becasue of the savior i know i cansee her one dayin the near future

You're obviously ignorant in the area of ethical philosophy. Don't feel too bad, most people are, including myself. But the only thing that determines right from wrong is whatever laws society has created that say so. That's it. And they are not hard and fast rules. Perhaps when you go to college you can take a situational ethics class and then you'll catch on to what Im saying.

[dizzysmiles]

i have been to college, and your funny ,,, and no i didnt say you broke any moral code, the classes are awsome and for anyone just for fun.

[gwell]

How come I have an image of a car spinning its wheels going nowhere in my head........

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 1 2005, 05:57 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 1 2005, 06:09 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM

You, my strangely religious friend, are the one in denial.  You deny that said testimonies are in fact produced from within your own framework of reality.

Yes, I do deny that the witness I received from God was only from my own mind, but only because I know that witness came from God, and not my own mind.

And Jason, just because you now believe that witness came from only your own mind, it doesn’t necessarily mean that witness came only from your own mind. Or in other words, it could be that you now simply do not believe that witness came from God, when in fact it really did.

Well, if you can come up with a scientific test to prove that said witnesses are not the product of your own mind, I'd be happy to take it.

In the mean time, Reason trumphs religion.

←

You reject a personal witness from God, so what other type of "scientific" evidence would you accept?

And btw, religion can also be explained through reasoning, since religion is merely a collection or system of beliefs concerning God and our relationship to God, although a personal relationship with God is always better than anyone else's explanation.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by dizzysmiles@Nov 1 2005, 08:54 PM

i have been to college, and your funny ,,, and no i didnt say you broke any moral code, the classes are awsome and for anyone just for fun.

I apologize right off the bat if this offends you dizzy but how do people get into college if they have trouble communicating via the written word. I'm not sure if it's your style or if you're just lazy but I'm truly shocked you have been to college.

M.

[Jason]

Ok, which mod-a-nazi deleted my post #86? It was just a polite way of responding in kind to #85's thoughtless remark. A little jab and the tedius General Conferences never hurt anyone...

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Please@Nov 1 2005, 02:45 PM

Shanstress: Some (although not me) would say that you guys will be judged for following a false prophet, and for putting a fictional book to the same or higher esteem than the Bible.  They supposedly have 'assurance' of this from God, just like you supposedly do.

But all you are saying comes from (and you admit this) the lack of receiving a witness. All that I say comes from having received a witness.... there is a mighty big difference here...

I mean if you were in a court of law.... and there was a case going on as to whether or not someone did something... and you didn't have any eye witness... the person would be released for lack of evidence...

But if there were even just one witness... though several non witnesses... the witness will trump the non witnesses... though out numbered....

Also... it makes no sense to call a man a false prophet and his followers lyers or decieved... just because you have received no witness...

IOWs when you have received.... you can't deny it... but if you haven't you have to blame us for that.... because you can't look inside yourself and see what is lacking that you didn't receive...

←

Thing is... people have a 'witness' from not just this religion, but from all religions. Does that mean that I should believe that Islam is the 'true church', because someone tells me that God talked to them and told them it was so? That's my point. God hasn't let me know that the LDS church is any more true than any other church. In fact, I have been made to see just the opposite.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by dizzysmiles@Nov 1 2005, 04:33 PM

shantress when joseph smith did temple work they did endowments up stairs in a log cabin, that was before they had temples.

←

You're helping to make my point. If temple work was done in a log cabin, then obviously it was OK to be done there. Don't you think the money used to erect temples would be put to better use if given to the poor and hungry? The God that I know doesn't care about expensive light fixtures. He is fine with the log cabins. He doesn't need us to 'honor' him with expensive things in lieu of feeding the hungry!

That is all mans' doing.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by dizzysmiles@Nov 1 2005, 04:31 PM

shantress if it isnt real you wont be having to tell anyone cause if you claim its not real then there wouldnb't be a heavenly father now would there?

←

Yes, I do believe that God and Jesus are real. I just believe it in a simple form, and not all the extraneous stuff. I believe that Joseph Smith was just a mere man looking to make a living, and got caught up in the power and control and lust of it all.

I don't think that God cares about expensive temples, drinking coffee and tea, whether men wear white shirts, how many children a couple has, etc., etc., etc.! In my opinion, these are all Smith-isms.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Nov 3 2005, 07:01 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-dizzysmiles@Nov 1 2005, 04:31 PM

shantress if it isnt real you wont be having to tell anyone cause if you claim its not real then there wouldnb't be a heavenly father now would there?

←

Yes, I do believe that God and Jesus are real. I just believe it in a simple form, and not all the extraneous stuff. I believe that Joseph Smith was just a mere man looking to make a living, and got caught up in the power and control and lust of it all.

I don't think that God cares about expensive temples, drinking coffee and tea, whether men wear white shirts, how many children a couple has, etc., etc., etc.! In my opinion, these are all Smith-isms.

←

Our perspectives make us who we are. I can appreciate where you are coming from, but have to say... your perceptions are effected by more than just a few facts given to you through an anti sight... there is something personal you haven't shared which is why you really are leaning to the direction you are...

No need to share... but I will testify that Joseph was a man of God... and though human... as you or I... did have a divine mission which he accomplished ... and gave his life for...

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Please+Nov 3 2005, 12:24 PM-->

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 3 2005, 07:01 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-dizzysmiles@Nov 1 2005, 04:31 PM

shantress if it isnt real you wont be having to tell anyone cause if you claim its not real then there wouldnb't be a heavenly father now would there?

←

Yes, I do believe that God and Jesus are real. I just believe it in a simple form, and not all the extraneous stuff. I believe that Joseph Smith was just a mere man looking to make a living, and got caught up in the power and control and lust of it all.

I don't think that God cares about expensive temples, drinking coffee and tea, whether men wear white shirts, how many children a couple has, etc., etc., etc.! In my opinion, these are all Smith-isms.

←

Our perspectives make us who we are. I can appreciate where you are coming from, but have to say... your perceptions are effected by more than just a few facts given to you through an anti sight... there is something personal you haven't shared which is why you really are leaning to the direction you are...

No need to share... but I will testify that Joseph was a man of God... and though human... as you or I... did have a divine mission which he accomplished ... and gave his life for...

←

No, honestly, there isn't anything that has happened that has caused me to feel this way, other than to think about all the different perspectives out there, and realize that there is nothing that makes this religion any truer than any other.

[Ray]

Shanstress,

What Please was saying, in other words, is that your thinking has been influenced by more than your own thoughts, and I testify that is true, whether you know it or not.

[dizzysmiles]

do you not read trhat we are one of the number one churches that actually helps the poor?! duh!

[dizzysmiles]

Smithism's? a boy who was 14 with a 3rd grade education could really make all that up? and could make up all the book of mormon nations with facts tha t really happend? the reason we want our temples to be beautiful is to resemble the beauty of the celestail kingdom, we want a place where we can go that is away from the world. Also Why would joseph smith go throuhgh hell, infact why dont you read THEY KNEW THE PROPHET and tell me that he would reeally go through almost being castraded, mocked even thouhg non members hired him to work in their fields becasue he was good but when they found out about his church they judged him and had to let him go, he lost one of his twins because the door was left open and they were sick while joseph was being pulled out of the home from mobs, being tared and featherd, giving up material things and going willingly to the jail even though h e knew it would be the end of his mortal life. wouldmn't it have been easier to deny everything and have a normal life? but he didnt becasue he knew of the consequences of denying it and he knew what he saw and he knew God knew it and that is all that matters and he gave his life so we could have something. Whats wrong with having beautiful temples? you dont understand the white tshirts obviously and no where does it tell a person that they have to have 15 children or else. we do however think that children are a blessing and are waiting for their time here on earth and we want them to be able to go to good homes with loving parents, mormon or non mormon.

[dizzysmiles]

Shantress sounds like your looing at other members of the church and we aren't perfect that is why we are here to help each other out and those that act perfect are lying and aren't helping. but the gospel is perfect so instead of looking at its members look unto christ. Also coffee and tea, read health magazines and look at the damage it does, if you dont believe me just go look at a coffee drinkers teeth.

[Guest bizabra]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=1074559

http://www.ultimate-coffees-info.com/coffee-and-health.html

Please educate yourself on the health benefits of coffee before you spout silly nonsense.

thank you

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 3 2005, 03:19 PM

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=1074559

http://www.ultimate-coffees-info.com/coffee-and-health.html

Please educate yourself on the health benefits of coffee before you spout silly nonsense.

thank you

←

ROFL!!! you know what...?? They used to say that it was bad for you.... not too long ago... why do you believe them now?

Live long enough the world will have a link telling you something is both good and bad... all within just a few years of each other...

Maybe you are the one that needs to get educated. And how rude of you to tell someone else to get educated when you sound like an idiot as often as anyone else...

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Please+Nov 3 2005, 02:29 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 3 2005, 03:19 PM

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=1074559

http://www.ultimate-coffees-info.com/coffee-and-health.html

Please educate yourself on the health benefits of coffee before you spout silly nonsense.

thank you

←

ROFL!!! you know what...?? They used to say that it was bad for you.... not too long ago... why do you believe them now?

Live long enough the world will have a link telling you something is both good and bad... all within just a few years of each other...

Maybe you are the one that needs to get educated. And how rude of you to tell someone else to get educated when you sound like an idiot as often as anyone else...

←

BIZ: THEY once thought that smoking was good for the lungs, now we know better. THEY once thought that washing your hands after performing a gangrenous amputation before you went and delivered a baby was utter foolishness, we know better now. THEY once thought a port wine birthmark was a sign of the devil, now we know better.

Why do we believe THEM now? You tell me.

And how rude of YOU to call me an idiot! Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black? Dontcha think? Oh yeah, that's right, you don't rely on your "thinking", you prefer to rely on your "feelings". Sorry.