What "blessings" Come From Tithing

[Guest Member_Deleted]

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Those who did not... because they didn't know any better... but would have paid if they had known... will receive the same blessings as those who knew and paid...

Some blessings are received here... because of predestination... some were predestined to be poor, others to be rich... some to have crippled bodies... some to have super healthy bodies... some to be blind... some to have sight...

But... if they receive blessings beyond these normal boundaries... spiritually. ... increased faith.... confirmations from the Spirit etc.... then they may not be things you can see... and compare...

[Ray]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Oct 31 2005, 11:05 AM

But what about giving money to charities that help people in need?  In my non-LDS opinion, I believe that blessings will be greater to those who give to humanitarian aid (10% of what we make, or maybe 20%, or whatever we feel like in our hearts), rather than to a church fund who give only a portion (not sure how much becuase the numbers aren't available) to humanitarian aid, and uses the rest for the building of temples, and the like.  IMO, God would rather us spend money on the poor, etc. than to honor Him with large, expensive buildings... but that's just me!

←

A temple is not just a building in honor of our Lord, a temple is a place where we can help the Lord with His work.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please@Oct 31 2005, 05:46 PM

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Ah yes. The first Law of Priestcraft, promise blessings in a future hereafter to receive monies in the present.

A time tested law that continues to dupe the masses...

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 31 2005, 06:01 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-shanstress70@Oct 31 2005, 11:05 AM

But what about giving money to charities that help people in need?  In my non-LDS opinion, I believe that blessings will be greater to those who give to humanitarian aid (10% of what we make, or maybe 20%, or whatever we feel like in our hearts), rather than to a church fund who give only a portion (not sure how much becuase the numbers aren't available) to humanitarian aid, and uses the rest for the building of temples, and the like.  IMO, God would rather us spend money on the poor, etc. than to honor Him with large, expensive buildings... but that's just me!

←

A temple is not just a building in honor of our Lord, a temple is a place where we can help the Lord with His work.

←

The 2nd Law of Priestcraft: Show the people how god accomplishes his omnipotent works, by doing them all for him.

edit: wrong word.

[Ray]

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And btw, I'm not trying to "scare" you with the idea that there will be a day of judgment. I'm merely asking you what you would do or say if such a day ever came.

And FYI, you have the right to remain silent, and anything you say will be used against you on the day of judgment should you choose to waive your right to the Advocate.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 31 2005, 06:22 PM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Oct 31 2005, 05:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 31 2005, 05:46 PM

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Ah yes. The first Law of Priestcraft, promise blessings in a future hereafter to receive monies in the present.

A time tested law that continues to dupe the masses...

←

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and I'm curious about what would you say to our Lord and our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And btw, I'm not trying to "scare" you with the idea that there will be a day of judgment. I'm merely asking you what you would do or say if such a day ever came.

And FYI, you have the right to remain silent, and anything you say will be used against you on the day of judgment should you waive your right to the Advocate.

←

Rather than hijack this fine thread, I think we'll have to start a new one. Probably over on open forums, eh?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Oct 31 2005, 06:05 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 31 2005, 05:46 PM

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Ah yes. The first Law of Priestcraft, promise blessings in a future hereafter to receive monies in the present.

A time tested law that continues to dupe the masses...

←

LOL... I actually have had the dead reveal themselves... and guess what....it is all true..... just cause YOU don't know... doesn't mean it doesn't exist... silly man...

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason+Oct 31 2005, 05:24 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 31 2005, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Jason@Oct 31 2005, 05:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 31 2005, 05:46 PM

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Ah yes. The first Law of Priestcraft, promise blessings in a future hereafter to receive monies in the present.

A time tested law that continues to dupe the masses...

←

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and I'm curious about what would you say to our Lord and our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And btw, I'm not trying to "scare" you with the idea that there will be a day of judgment. I'm merely asking you what you would do or say if such a day ever came.

And FYI, you have the right to remain silent, and anything you say will be used against you on the day of judgment should you waive your right to the Advocate.

←

Rather than hijack this fine thread, I think we'll have to start a new one. Probably over on open forums, eh?

←

I was merely responding to your statements which were already off topic, expecting that you would give me a quick and simple reply, but if you think you have an answer that merits a new thread, and you want to start one, go ahead. I'll probably read it.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Oct 31 2005, 06:38 PM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Oct 31 2005, 06:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 31 2005, 05:46 PM

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Ah yes. The first Law of Priestcraft, promise blessings in a future hereafter to receive monies in the present.

A time tested law that continues to dupe the masses...

←

LOL... I actually have had the dead reveal themselves... and guess what....it is all true..... just cause YOU don't know... doesn't mean it doesn't exist... silly man...

←

Do tell my lady, do tell.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 31 2005, 06:38 PM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Oct 31 2005, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 31 2005, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Jason@Oct 31 2005, 05:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 31 2005, 05:46 PM

How do you reconcile the fact that good things happen serendipitously to non-tithe payers and tithers both?

There are some blessings that won't be realized until after this life... then you will see a real difference between those who paid and those who were given the law and did not...

Ah yes. The first Law of Priestcraft, promise blessings in a future hereafter to receive monies in the present.

A time tested law that continues to dupe the masses...

←

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and I'm curious about what would you say to our Lord and our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And btw, I'm not trying to "scare" you with the idea that there will be a day of judgment. I'm merely asking you what you would do or say if such a day ever came.

And FYI, you have the right to remain silent, and anything you say will be used against you on the day of judgment should you waive your right to the Advocate.

←

Rather than hijack this fine thread, I think we'll have to start a new one. Probably over on open forums, eh?

←

I was merely responding to your statements which were already off topic, expecting that you would give me a quick and simple reply, but if you think you have an answer that merits a new thread, and you want to start one, go ahead. I'll probably read it.

←

It's on open forums, and awaits your reply!

[Snow]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Oct 30 2005, 10:35 AM-->

Originally posted by Snow@Oct 30 2005, 12:27 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Oct 28 2005, 06:41 AM

I know I've asked this before, but I would still like some specific examples of the blessings that you all feel you get from tithing that others who do not tithe don't or won't get.

Please be as specific as you can, and explain why you think that these blessings stem directly from paying tithing. 

I still don't understand what tithing payers "get" in return that other normal humans who don't give any $ to a religious organization don't get.

Thanks

←

Well - those that tithe will not be burned at His (Christ's) coming... so we've got that going for us.

In the old missionary discussions we were supposed to read the scripture that said he who tithes won't be burned at His coming and then we supposed to ask "Mr and Mrs Gerkshlakan, would you like this blessing for you and your family?" (Would you like to not become smouldering hunks of charred flesh - both for you and lovely family?)

←

Snow,

Do you now feel that you were wrong to ask that question?

←

I never asked the question.

That was part of the official discussion that all Church missionaries were supposed to memorize and deliver. In my mission we were required to have them memorized (in Spanish), recite them once to our senior companion and then promptly forget.

Each missionary constructed their own outline of discussions and then adapted them as necessary to meet the needs of any particular investigator.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Serg@Oct 31 2005, 08:08 AM

Just to say, and let not be it so harsh....the "us being NOT burnt" at His coming is NOT JUST because of paying tithings, is because of BEING OBIDIENT. Tithing is a material expression of obidience, one mostly difficult for our carnal aspect, and the reason of the scripture saying that is, that for he who can be THAT obidient to do so, it would in logic, be ALSO obidient in most things, action that would ASSURE you of NOT being burnt, so again, it is faithfulness what saves a man, and diligence that shows such conviction, and thats it....

        Best ragards,

←

Be that as it may, if you don't pay your tithing, according to Malachi, you're toast.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 31 2005, 07:01 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-shanstress70@Oct 31 2005, 11:05 AM

But what about giving money to charities that help people in need?  In my non-LDS opinion, I believe that blessings will be greater to those who give to humanitarian aid (10% of what we make, or maybe 20%, or whatever we feel like in our hearts), rather than to a church fund who give only a portion (not sure how much becuase the numbers aren't available) to humanitarian aid, and uses the rest for the building of temples, and the like.  IMO, God would rather us spend money on the poor, etc. than to honor Him with large, expensive buildings... but that's just me!

←

A temple is not just a building in honor of our Lord, a temple is a place where we can help the Lord with His work.

←

But God is not superficial. I'm pretty sure he could be honored, and his work could be carried out in a log cabin. I don't think he cares about gold statues, chandeliers, and the like.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Nov 1 2005, 06:10 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I would ask why he appeared to me and told me otherwise... and why my mother and the mother of my sister's came to me and told me otherwise... and then I would ask him why the stars were doing their thing in such a strange way and why those guys in white shiny suites appeared in my room with their notebook.... and why he was soooooo deceptive!!!!!!

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Nov 1 2005, 09:24 AM-->

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 06:10 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I would ask why he appeared to me and told me otherwise... and why my mother and the mother of my sister's came to me and told me otherwise... and then I would ask him why the stars were doing their thing in such a strange way and why those guys in white shiny suites appeared in my room with their notebook.... and why he was soooooo deceptive!!!!!!

←

Then the Creator would say, I've never appeared to anyone. What the heck make's you think you're so darn special?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 1 2005, 09:44 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Nov 1 2005, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 06:10 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I would ask why he appeared to me and told me otherwise... and why my mother and the mother of my sister's came to me and told me otherwise... and then I would ask him why the stars were doing their thing in such a strange way and why those guys in white shiny suites appeared in my room with their notebook.... and why he was soooooo deceptive!!!!!!

←

Then the Creator would say, I've never appeared to anyone. What the heck make's you think you're so darn special?

←

And I would say.... why the heck was I so bothered then... why wasn't I left alone like everyone else????

and I already know that answer.... BECAUSE YOU BUG ME!!!

[Ray]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Nov 1 2005, 05:10 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I used an "if" argument only because I was trying to not offend Jason [or you or anyone else] with my testimony again. I already know what God has said to me.

And btw, I advise you, Jason, and you, Shanstress, to say something more like:

"because you never told me",

...although I imagine our heavenly Father will respond by saying something like:

"Yes, I did. I personally inspired and authorized a lot of people to tell you the truth concerning the official doctrine of the Church, while also telling those people to tell you that you should personally Ask Me if you have trouble understanding it.

And, Jason, I merely asked why you chose not to believe it, to get you to realize that you did have the opportunity to know the truth and accept it.

But let's get down to business now, shall we? You knew enough to know the difference between good and evil through reason alone, and you are now here to be judged for your actions."

Pssst... remember, the day of judgment is the day we will all be judged by our works based on our knowledge of good and evil. It's not a day to test us on anything else we might know.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2005, 12:23 PM-->

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 05:10 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I used an "if" argument only because I was trying to not offend Jason [or you or anyone else] with my testimony again. I already know what God has said to me.

And btw, I advise you, Jason, and you, Shanstress, to say something more like:

"because you never told me",

...although I imagine our heavenly Father will respond by saying something like:

"Yes, I did. I personally inspired and authorized a lot of people to tell you the truth concerning the official doctrine of the Church, while also telling those people to tell you that you should personally Ask Me if you have trouble understanding it.

And, Jason, I merely asked why you chose not to believe it, to get you to realize that you did have the opportunity to know the truth and accept it.

But let's get down to business now, shall we? You knew enough to know the difference between good and evil through reason alone, and you are now here to be judged for your actions."

Pssst... remember, the day of judgment is the day we will all be judged by our works based on our knowledge of good and evil. It's not a day to test us on anything else we might know.

←

If there is a God who judges us on judgement day, it doesn't matter what anyone says because He knows what is in our hearts.

And if He says, "Yes I did. I personally inspired and authorized a lot of people to tell you the truth concerning the official doctrine of the Church, while also telling those people to tell you that you should personally Ask Me if you have trouble understanding it," I will say, "Yes, but other religions have told me the same thing, and I didn't get any more impression that the LDS church was true than I did from the others. God, how am I supposed to choose which one is true if you don't somehow let me know?"

As far as this comment goes: "Pssst... remember, the day of judgment is the day we will all be judged by our works based on our knowledge of good and evil. It's not a day to test us on anything else we might know."

Some (although not me) would say that you guys will be judged for following a false prophet, and for putting a fictional book to the same or higher esteem than the Bible. They supposedly have 'assurance' of this from God, just like you supposedly do.

[gwell]

Hmmmm....

Not sure if the measurable or tangeable benefits of paying your tithing are really whats important...Hearing stories such as being provided for after paying your tithing are great and faith-promoting, however is not the obedience to the law the important part....

If for some reason you pay your tithing and dont see any tangible benefits (Money in my hand) am I gonna stop paying it...No....I pay it because I believe it to be a true principle...not because of what I feel the Lord will bless me with.....

[Ray]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Nov 1 2005, 11:00 AM-->

If there is a God who judges us on judgement day, it doesn't matter what anyone says because He knows what is in our hearts.

And He will also know what we have done, just as we do and will.

<!--QuoteBegin-shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 11:00 AM

And if He says, "Yes I did [tell you what is true].  I personally inspired and authorized a lot of people to tell you the truth concerning the official doctrine of the Church, while also telling those people to tell you that you should personally Ask Me if you have trouble understanding it,"

I will say, "Yes, but other religions have told me the same thing, and I didn't get any more impression that the LDS church was true than I did from the others.  God, how am I supposed to choose which one is true if you don't somehow let me know?"

...if God doesn't somehow let you know?... I believe God has a way of somehow letting you know, and letting all of us know, and it is now a matter of having enough Faith to follow Him.

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 11:00 AM

As far as this comment goes: "Pssst... remember, the day of judgment is the day we will all be judged by our works based on our knowledge of good and evil.  It's not a day to test us on anything else we might know."

Some (although not me) would say that you guys will be judged for following a false prophet, and for putting a fictional book to the same or higher esteem than the Bible.  They supposedly have 'assurance' of this from God, just like you supposedly do.

As I just said, what matters most is whether or not we choose good or evil, which is evidenced in what we do, and if we are all doing good things, then we will all be led to God through Faith in him.

Or in other words, it doesn't really matter what I say, or what you say, or what anyone else says, unless God is speaking through that person, and the only way we can know that is through Faith from God.

And still, what we DO matters more than what we say or believe.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by gwell@Nov 1 2005, 12:42 PM

Hmmmm....

Not sure if the measurable or tangeable benefits of paying your tithing are really whats important...Hearing stories such as being provided for after paying your tithing are great and faith-promoting, however is not the obedience to the law the important part....

If for some reason you pay your tithing and dont see any tangible benefits (Money in my hand) am I gonna stop paying it...No....I pay it because I believe it to be a true principle...not because of what I feel the Lord will bless me with.....

←

EXCELLENT POINT!!!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Shanstress: Some (although not me) would say that you guys will be judged for following a false prophet, and for putting a fictional book to the same or higher esteem than the Bible.  They supposedly have 'assurance' of this from God, just like you supposedly do.

But all you are saying comes from (and you admit this) the lack of receiving a witness. All that I say comes from having received a witness.... there is a mighty big difference here...

I mean if you were in a court of law.... and there was a case going on as to whether or not someone did something... and you didn't have any eye witness... the person would be released for lack of evidence...

But if there were even just one witness... though several non witnesses... the witness will trump the non witnesses... though out numbered....

Also... it makes no sense to call a man a false prophet and his followers lyers or decieved... just because you have received no witness...

IOWs when you have received.... you can't deny it... but if you haven't you have to blame us for that.... because you can't look inside yourself and see what is lacking that you didn't receive...

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Please+Nov 1 2005, 08:24 AM-->

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 06:10 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I would ask why he appeared to me and told me otherwise... and why my mother and the mother of my sister's came to me and told me otherwise... and then I would ask him why the stars were doing their thing in such a strange way and why those guys in white shiny suites appeared in my room with their notebook.... and why he was soooooo deceptive!!!!!!

←

BIZ: The most logical answer to what you experienced is that you were hallucinating. You WANTED to have the experiences you had so badly, that your own mind MADE IT UP!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by bizabra+Nov 1 2005, 01:54 PM-->

Originally posted by Please@Nov 1 2005, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 1 2005, 06:10 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Oct 31 2005, 07:22 PM

Jason,

If there is ever a day of judgment, we will all know whether or not the official doctrine of the Church is true, and if we all find out it is, I'm curious to know what would you say to our Father in heaven about why you chose not to believe it.

And if we all find out it is not, I'm curious to know what you would say to our Father in heaven about what you chose to believe all the extraneous stuff, consider a mere fictional book to be scripture, and a mere man to be a prophet.

Every argument can go both ways, Ray.

←

I would ask why he appeared to me and told me otherwise... and why my mother and the mother of my sister's came to me and told me otherwise... and then I would ask him why the stars were doing their thing in such a strange way and why those guys in white shiny suites appeared in my room with their notebook.... and why he was soooooo deceptive!!!!!!

←

BIZ: The most logical answer to what you experienced is that you were hallucinating. You WANTED to have the experiences you had so badly, that your own mind MADE IT UP!

←

Well it is obvious you have never had a Spirit scream at you while your child is dying in the next room and you're arguing with it to leave you alone cause you are sure the baby is fine and you are tired......