prisonchaplain Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Halloween used to be a fun time of trick-or-treating, and most Christian people and congregations did not think twice about enjoying the fun. These days many Christians have chosen to forgo all recognition of the day, or to participate in alternative celebrations that do not include the evil spirituality associated with the holiday. What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 11 2005, 04:07 PMHalloween used to be a fun time of trick-or-treating, and most Christian people and congregations did not think twice about enjoying the fun. These days many Christians have chosen to forgo all recognition of the day, or to participate in alternative celebrations that do not include the evil spirituality associated with the holiday. What say you?←I believe that it is still the fun evening I remember so long ago... I see no evil in it.. but there are those who infuse evil into it... those I don't appreciate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisajo Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 11 2005, 02:07 PMHalloween used to be a fun time of trick-or-treating, and most Christian people and congregations did not think twice about enjoying the fun. These days many Christians have chosen to forgo all recognition of the day, or to participate in alternative celebrations that do not include the evil spirituality associated with the holiday. What say you?←I like Halloween But i choose only some parts to celibrate...Trick or treating etc. I think that if you stick my your own traditions with it it's ok...We dont do haunted houses ...but the old mine in town has a great haunted house that is not a bloody mess, and is alittle spooky, We had on sunday night this year Halloween bingo, we used it as family night, Gran dma and the kids friends came, It was alot of fun, and we got the prizes at the dollar store,...I really think it is how you partisipate in the holiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 I think 99% of people in this country today, that practice Halloween look at it as a fun night for the kids. They do not associate its historic beginnings with it, nor do the kids, most of which do not even know anything about. I am not celebrating Satan or anything to do with him by giving trick or treaters candy or goodies at my door. I am enjoying seeing the kids in their costumes and having a good time. Kids are kids, let them be the kids they are.... Those that use it for evil and wrong doings, they have to answer for their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Never truly understood where the "evil of halloween" came from. I mean Satan didn't exist to the people who created it until the christians came around. The masks and ghoulish costumes came when it was deemed nessesary to chase the spirits away, which again was a more christian idea. Wouldn't mind knowing what is so evil about the "old traditions" _______________________ Satan existed before Christians did...Christians did not invent satan, nor did they invent Halloween. Halloween is a pagan holiday. I was born on Halloween, but now that I'm an adult, I don't celebrate Halloween as I did when I was a child. Halloween is one of the "high un-holy day's" that satanists celebrate...child and animal sacrifices and rituals are performed. Why empower that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Look, I've met people who even equate Chritmas with evil. The elders tracted into a lady last year who gave them a tract explaning how each element of the holiday; tree, lights, Santa, etc, was a pagan symbol. Sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Nov 11 2005, 04:16 PMIt's no different from Christmas was a sun feast that was adopted by christians. You have said Satanist choose to do rites on that night, so it's the Satanist not the night that you disagree with. THe satanic rituals have nothing to do with the actual traditions of the night itself. THose came along around the same time as the christians. So again, what is the evil of the old traditions because they were not satanic?Pagan does not mean evil, never has, never will. It's different but not evil.←Why do non-Christians or anti-Christians oppose celebrating Christmas, if it's a pagan holiday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Nov 11 2005, 03:31 PMMy question is how many people really understand the true origins of this holiday? THere really was never much evil with it. Samhain was the equivalent to new years. It was a night to honor the dearly departed and reflect. It was thought that it was the one night where the veil between the realms of life and death were parted and that the spirits of the dearly departed could come back to their loved ones. The spirits were welcomed and not feared. Never truly understood where the "evil of halloween" came from. I mean Satan didn't exist to the people who created it until the christians came around. The masks and ghoulish costumes came when it was deemed nessesary to chase the spirits away, which again was a more christian idea. Wouldn't mind knowing what is so evil about the "old traditions"←For those who wish to know what all the fuss is about, I'm pasting several websites that address this issue from varying perspectives. The first is the most standard evangelical anti-halloween posting. There are a few here from secular or non-Christian sites, such as a newspaper, and religioustolerance.org and beliefnet.org. Happy surfing!http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/halloween.htmlhttp://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ts.706da06.htmlhttp://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/OnlineDis...ween_Watt05.asphttp://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htmhttp://www.religionlink.org/tip_021007b.phphttp://www.beliefnet.org/story/177/story_17773_2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Now is it they oppose celebrating christmas or the fact that Christians took over the holiday? Christians if an effort to convert a large part of the european population made the transition easier by not drasticly changing their calander of holy days.Non Christians aren't all pagan nor are Anti christians, so just becsause they have issues with what most now percieve to be a christian holiday, doesn't mean they will celebrate or realize what it once stood for.←You didn't answer my question: Why do non-Christians or anti-Christians oppose celebrating Christmas, if it's a pagan holiday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 We are tired of trees this year and are just putting up one of those giant porcelain nativity sets in our bay window... where our tree usually sits... My point to this disclosure is this... we are all FREE to do what we please when we please and how we please... no one is going around and giving tickets for non compliance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justlooking Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 We don't celebrate holloween with the traditional jack-o-lanterns, witches, ghost etc. However, what we do is take advantage of is the opportunity of having a couple of hundred strangers, that we would otherwise never meet, come to our house and ask for something. The best thing one can ever give is CHRIST! So we decorate the house with religious banners, play fun praise and worship music, and turn on all the lights so that the house is really bright. Then we give out scriptures gifts with the candy and tell everyone who comes that JESUS loves them. Each year we get different items for the scripture gift. One year we got a lot of childrens bibles, another year childrens coloring books, and so on. The Lord gave us this project to do many years ago and every year it gets better and better. We wrap up these gifts and the children become excited because they feel like its christmas as well! You can actually feel a change in the spiritual rhelm when they recieve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Justlooking@Nov 11 2005, 07:42 PMWe don't celebrate holloween with the traditional jack-o-lanterns, witches, ghost etc. However, what we do is take advantage of is the opportunity of having a couple of hundred strangers, that we would otherwise never meet, come to our house and ask for something. The best thing one can ever give is CHRIST!So we decorate the house with religious banners, play fun praise and worship music, and turn on all the lights so that the house is really bright. Then we give out scriptures gifts with the candy and tell everyone who comes that JESUS loves them. Each year we get different items for the scripture gift. One year we got a lot of childrens bibles, another year childrens coloring books, and so on. The Lord gave us this project to do many years ago and every year it gets better and better. We wrap up these gifts and the children become excited because they feel like its christmas as well! You can actually feel a change in the spiritual rhelm when they recieve this.←Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Now is it they oppose celebrating christmas or the fact that Christians took over the holiday? Christians if an effort to convert a large part of the european population made the transition easier by not drasticly changing their calander of holy days. Non Christians aren't all pagan nor are Anti christians, so just becsause they have issues with what most now percieve to be a christian holiday, doesn't mean they will celebrate or realize what it once stood for. ← You didn't answer my question: Why do non-Christians or anti-Christians oppose celebrating Christmas, if it's a pagan holiday? ← My point was why would it matter To anti or non Christians if it started as a pagan holiday? AS i said, being not all Non's or Anti's are not pagan, they see a christian holiday with out knowing it's real origins. Just as you don't know the actual origins of halloween so you take what little tid bits and mis-truths you have heard and form it into an opinion. When asking about the origins of your church who would be best suited to give the answer, a member who is well versed in it or an anti who has only limited facts aimed at harming the church?←You presume to assume I don't know what I'm talking about...but this only adds arrogance to your ignorance lol. I'll ask the question in a different manner: what does it matter to non Christians, if Christians do not celebrate Halloween? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Nov 11 2005, 07:16 PMIt doesn't matter to me at all, I love Christmas. What does it matter to you the there are those of us who celebrate the real purpose for the halloween holiday known as Samhain? You like to deal with generalizations. THe question is why do some non-christians and anti's not like to celebrate christmas? I don't care if you celebrate halloween at all, i do mind you telling facts that are incorrect about how it started and what it means.You calling me ignorant of my own faith sounds more arrogant to me. I wouldn't presume to tell you you didn't know your faith if i heard you saying something i thought wasn't right. Instead i would ask you to please explain your thoughts on the matter. I know you don't know about Samhain cause it has nothing what so ever to do with Satanist rituals. The Satanists saw a day Christians were scared of and ran with it. It is a very holy day for some of us, and i take a large exception to people bad mouthing it because of myth and garbage talk. I don't believe in your church, and even voice a concerns but i don't mind being corrected if i am off base and i try my best not to insult the members. I am telling you as a person who celebrates the old tradition of this particular holiday that you are wrong Ari, it is not evil or Satan. You are being very disrespectful to others personal religious beliefs, and while i understand your feeling cause i share a great deal of them towards your church, there are more respectful ways to deal with it. Admit there could be something you don't know or misunderstand about others faith and inquire if there is something you can do to better understand it. THat's the reason i am here. I believe it's the 11th article of faith.←You never answered either of my questions. Instead, you have twisted things to suit yourself, presenting what you believe in, regarding Halloween. Regardless of what you practice personally, what I said is the truth and is well documented regarding satanic rituals/human sacrifice practiced on Halloween. Whether you accept it or not is your right...but you don't have the right to infer that I don't know what I'm talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Non-christians object to the PUBLIC celebration of Xmas due to it's religious content in this day and age. Xmas was originally a Pagan holiday feast which the early xtian church co-opted to make the transition to xtianity more palatable to the masses. The Satanists also co-opted the Samhein festival to celebrate their own ideas, hence the "evilness" now associated with Halloween. It was NOT the original intent of the festival. YOU would likely object if the State condoned the celebration of Hannuka OVER and ABOVE any other religious celebration. A Winter Festival theme is likely to offend NO-ONE, and everyone is still free to celebrate any religious holiday the wish to, ON THEIR OWN TIME, and NOT in the public sphere. I, myself, feel free to celebrate the Holiday, with a tree and lights and decorations and parties and presents, I just hang it around the Solstice, which is the ORIGINAL Pagan practice. I believe that Xtians are the ones stepping on MY celebration, and just laugh it off. I could care less how YOU choose to celebrate it, I simply ask that the STATE not give it's blessing to ONE FORM of religion over another. It would be silly to have EVERY religious belief fostered by the State, best to just NOT promote one over all the others and let folks celebrate their religious holidays on their own, privately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Nov 11 2005, 07:42 PMK first i answered all your questions but I'll put it in point for rather than paragraphs1)Non Christians or ANti CHristians are not all pagan so there for do not see the fact that CHristmas started as a pagan sun feast. THey don't celebrate it cause they are not CHristian and being it is now a christian holiday they do not agree with the current meaning.----------------------------You cannot speak for all non Christians or anti Christians, so you can't make a general statement. If Christmas falls on a pagan holiday, it would stand to reason that pagans would still celebrate on that day.----------------------------- 2) It does not matter to non christians who celebrates halloween, i could care less, what bothers me is you taking what halloween has turned into in some places and stating that this is how it started and therefore the entire thing is evil.-----------------------------You are putting words in my mouth. It seems that you are very concerned for some reason, as to why certain Christians don't celebrate Halloween, and you are doing your darndest trying to convince Christians that the holiday is "ok". Methinks thou protesteth too much!------------------------------3) Again i will say, yes there are satanic rituals on halloween as there are on many other days including christmas and easter. THey are done on days when they figure it will do the most to bother christians among other reasons. THey have NOTHING to do with the origins of the holiday. THis was started many, many years after the feast started, after the romans brought christianity to these lands.--------------------------------Thank you for validating what I said in the first place.---------------------------------And the fact that you can not seperate the things that others have added to this holiday, and not what it started out as shows me either you don't know what you are talking about, or just really only care about your own view and to hell with the truth and others faiths. If you can understand that all the satanic stuff came long after the original idea then i appologize and you were just not being clear.←-------------------------------------Let me make this perfectly clear: One cannot serve two masters. Either one serves God, or one serves the devil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 ARI: Let me make this perfectly clear: One cannot serve two masters. Either one serves God, or one serves the devil.BIZ: This is YOUR opinion and not one held by many others. And on THAT I am perfectly clear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 08:59 AMNon-christians object to the PUBLIC celebration of Xmas due to it's religious content in this day and age. Xmas was originally a Pagan holiday feast which the early xtian church co-opted to make the transition to xtianity more palatable to the masses. The Satanists also co-opted the Samhein festival to celebrate their own ideas, hence the "evilness" now associated with Halloween. It was NOT the original intent of the festival.YOU would likely object if the State condoned the celebration of Hannuka OVER and ABOVE any other religious celebration. A Winter Festival theme is likely to offend NO-ONE, and everyone is still free to celebrate any religious holiday the wish to, ON THEIR OWN TIME, and NOT in the public sphere. I, myself, feel free to celebrate the Holiday, with a tree and lights and decorations and parties and presents, I just hang it around the Solstice, which is the ORIGINAL Pagan practice. I believe that Xtians are the ones stepping on MY celebration, and just laugh it off. I could care less how YOU choose to celebrate it, I simply ask that the STATE not give it's blessing to ONE FORM of religion over another. It would be silly to have EVERY religious belief fostered by the State, best to just NOT promote one over all the others and let folks celebrate their religious holidays on their own, privately.←________________________"Human by nature, Christian by choice."Please note: I am putting Christ back into Christian (as opposed to Xtian). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 09:15 AMARI: Let me make this perfectly clear: One cannot serve two masters. Either one serves God, or one serves the devil.BIZ: This is YOUR opinion and not one held by many others. And on THAT I am perfectly clear!←________________________Recent polls indicate that 80-90% of Americans are Christians; hence, we live in a Christian nation. Christians believe in God, and His Son, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Therefore, non-Christians are a minority in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 So? That makes it ok to shove your religion down the throats of those who do NOT believe the way you do? What is the problem with having NO OFFICIAL state religion and letting folks worship privately on their own time? How can THAT be offensive? Why is that a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Ari+Nov 12 2005, 10:12 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-Soulsearcher@Nov 11 2005, 07:42 PMK first i answered all your questions but I'll put it in point for rather than paragraphs1)Non Christians or ANti CHristians are not all pagan so there for do not see the fact that CHristmas started as a pagan sun feast. THey don't celebrate it cause they are not CHristian and being it is now a christian holiday they do not agree with the current meaning.----------------------------You cannot speak for all non Christians or anti Christians, so you can't make a general statement. If Christmas falls on a pagan holiday, it would stand to reason that pagans would still celebrate on that day.----------------------------- 2) It does not matter to non christians who celebrates halloween, i could care less, what bothers me is you taking what halloween has turned into in some places and stating that this is how it started and therefore the entire thing is evil.-----------------------------You are putting words in my mouth. It seems that you are very concerned for some reason, as to why certain Christians don't celebrate Halloween, and you are doing your darndest trying to convince Christians that the holiday is "ok". Methinks thou protesteth too much!------------------------------3) Again i will say, yes there are satanic rituals on halloween as there are on many other days including christmas and easter. THey are done on days when they figure it will do the most to bother christians among other reasons. THey have NOTHING to do with the origins of the holiday. THis was started many, many years after the feast started, after the romans brought christianity to these lands.--------------------------------Thank you for validating what I said in the first place.---------------------------------And the fact that you can not seperate the things that others have added to this holiday, and not what it started out as shows me either you don't know what you are talking about, or just really only care about your own view and to hell with the truth and others faiths. If you can understand that all the satanic stuff came long after the original idea then i appologize and you were just not being clear.←-------------------------------------Let me make this perfectly clear: One cannot serve two masters. Either one serves God, or one serves the devil.←I think it has to do with the significance you place on it.... from your perspective... to celebrate Halloween the old way is to be duplicitous.... but not for someone who just wants to entertain their kids... and have some fun with no other significance placed upon itl..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 09:28 AMSo? That makes it ok to shove your religion down the throats of those who do NOT believe the way you do? What is the problem with having NO OFFICIAL state religion and letting folks worship privately on their own time? How can THAT be offensive? Why is that a problem?←____________________Clearly, you misinterpret facts and present emotionally charged arguments which are unfounded and based solely upon prejudice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 10:28 AMSo? That makes it ok to shove your religion down the throats of those who do NOT believe the way you do? What is the problem with having NO OFFICIAL state religion and letting folks worship privately on their own time? How can THAT be offensive? Why is that a problem?←STUFF IT DOWN YOUR THROATS? Yeah right... I was in France and Belgium for nearly two years... and the Catholic processions and routines... and the Jewish celebrations were everywhere to be seen... the food in the stores changed... the atmosphere changed... prayers were being publically demonstrated on the streets as we passed....I don't see that those who settled this valley... stuff the religion down anyone's throat... that was a very inflamatory statement... and a very pathetic and prejudicial attitude...Face it you are just prejudice and see everything through tinted glasses.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 NO, I just feel that the STATE has no business being in the religion business and that EVERYONE can FREELY worship and celebrate on their OWN, in private or in groups that are NOT state sponsored. The state should be neutral with regards religion and stay out of it! Folks can do what they please on their own time! How hard is that to understand? How is it "predjudicial" to want folks to do it themselves and NOT have the state get involved? Can you enlighten me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:45 PMNO, I just feel that the STATE has no business being in the religion business and that EVERYONE can FREELY worship and celebrate on their OWN, in private or in groups that are NOT state sponsored. The state should be neutral with regards religion and stay out of it! Folks can do what they please on their own time! How hard is that to understand? How is it "predjudicial" to want folks to do it themselves and NOT have the state get involved? Can you enlighten me?←What is wrong with the state people... who live in the state... having decorations ontheir desks that speak of their own preferences???? grief...The state is not a building... it is people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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