Christians And Walmart

[prisonchaplain]

Arguments in favor of Walmart:

Low prices

Family friendly policies. The store often pulls, or places in discreet locations, items that are of questionable values.

Hire many unskilled workers who might not otherwise find employment.

Arguments against Walmart:

#1 IMHO is that it is strongly anti-union.

Low wages and benefits for employees.

Too many part-time positions--meaning again, low wages and few benefits

Vendors are forced to sell at extremely low prices

More and more, it seems Walmart is purchasing from China, which has a poor human rights record

[BenRaines]

We should do away with all those overseas jobs and not cause those poor people to earn even a terrible wage. Better they earn nothing than the pittance that they earn making our Nike shoes and designer clothes.

Said with sarcasm

[lisajo]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 15 2005, 02:55 PM

Arguments in favor of Walmart:

Low prices

Family friendly policies.  The store often pulls, or places in discreet locations, items that are of questionable values.

Hire many unskilled workers who might not otherwise find employment.

Arguments against Walmart:

#1 IMHO is that it is strongly anti-union.

Low wages and benefits for employees.

Too many part-time positions--meaning again, low wages and few benefits

Vendors are forced to sell at extremely low prices

More and more, it seems Walmart is purchasing from China, which has a poor human rights record

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(

Well there are many things i could say here but i'll limit it to a few, sadly Wal-mart as other places has a bad rep........Part time and low wages also bad benifits,Ok i see it this way............... I would rather work there than McDonalds or a place like McDonalds, Also we have a choice, If you don't like the job , find one some were else....Many of the people who work there chose to work there. I myself find it hard to find a job anywere that has great benifits and good hours, Being a family with a rather tight budget Wal-mart has been good for us, I feel for the small buisness But on the other had look how much wal-mart has given back, Hurricane Katrina is a very good example,

I don't agree with wal-mart 100% but i gotta say I love the place

(Also i have found the wal-marts in nevada carry LDS books that i cant find i the area's were i live)

[Guest Ari 2]

Well, I reckon if Christians can celebrate Halloween and listen to Ozzy Osborn, they can shop at Walmart!

[lisajo]

Originally posted by Ari@Nov 15 2005, 03:14 PM

Well, I reckon if Christians can celebrate Halloween and listen to Ozzy Osborn, they can shop at Walmart!  

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OUCH!!!!!!!

[Outshined]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 15 2005, 04:55 PM

Arguments against Walmart:

#1 IMHO is that it is strongly anti-union.

Low wages and benefits for employees.

Too many part-time positions--meaning again, low wages and few benefits

Vendors are forced to sell at extremely low prices

More and more, it seems Walmart is purchasing from China, which has a poor human rights record

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True of just about every major retailer in America (or any other business in the US, I might add). B)

[Ray]

I believe I should support the good works of a person, not necessarily supporting the person.

For instance, a person or institution offering a product or service at a low price is doing a good thing, and I will support that person or institution in their offering of a product or service at a low price, if they have something I want or feel a need to have.

And btw, the opposite or opposition of a person or institution offering a product or service at a low price is a person or institution offering a product or service at a higher price, and I would not support that person or institution in that thing, unless I really needed what they were offering and had no other source for that product or service to choose from.

Anyway, I’m just saying that I don’t do background investigations on a person or institution to figure out whether or not I support everything they do. I simply support the good things they do, while not supporting the bad things they do.

For instance, if a person or institution offered employment at low wages, I would not support or accept employment from that person or institution unless I really needed what they were offering and had no other source of employment to choose from.

And btw, I didn’t vote, because the poll was asking what other people should do, and I am trying to cultivate the habit of only speaking for myself.

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Currently we are in an area that doesn't have a Wal-mart close by, so we don't frequent it as much as we use to. But, when we were, I was so grateful! We have 5 children, our last was twins, so being able to find cheap diapers and wipes, milk (almost a dollar cheaper per gallon than anywhere else, and our family goes through 6 gallons a week)...cheap clothes for little kids that aren't going to cost a small fortune, especially when they wear it 5 times and grow out of it, we couldn’t have made it without them. (BTW there was a statistic I read recently that said that Wal-mart is one of the biggest sellers of Lingerie, next to Victoria's Secret! [i can't remember where, it could have been here for all I know... )

I feel bad that Wal-mart apparently doesn't treat their employees very well...I truly am sorry...but when it comes down to easily spending $300 a month on diapers, wipes and formula somewhere else, and spending $200 or less at Wal-mart, I think I'm gonna have to go with Wal-mart.

And honestly, Wal-mart is appealing because many of them have a drug store, clothing, grocery department, tire/oil change, toys, entertainment department, etc. As a mother of 5 kids, having to only make one stop is a lifesaver for me.

That being said, we now shop at Costco and Albertson’s because they are closer, (and in the long run, it is probably saving me money because I'm not tempted to buy all the other stuff Wal-mart has to offer). Our community doesn't want a Wal-mart coming in…crime goes up and housing values go down.

I have a love/hate relationship with Wal-mart. I am grateful they provided me with cheap alternatives when we needed it, but I think it’s sad that their employees aren't valued more and taken care of better.

[Guest Ari 2]

Originally posted by lisajo+Nov 15 2005, 04:17 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Ari@Nov 15 2005, 03:14 PM

Well, I reckon if Christians can celebrate Halloween and listen to Ozzy Osborn, they can shop at Walmart!  

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OUCH!!!!!!!

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____________________

LOL

[BenRaines]

In response to an earlier post it is sad all those early WalMart employees that Sam Walton made millionaires from cashiers to dock workers. Those terrible folks should give all that back.

[Ray]

Originally posted by ToasterOfen@Nov 15 2005, 05:14 PM

I have a love/hate relationship with Wal-mart.  I am grateful they provided me with cheap alternatives when we needed it, but I think it’s sad that their employees aren't valued more and taken care of better.

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Heh, if you really feel bad about how much (or little) Walmart employees get paid, give them a $ or two, as a tip. At least that way your sad feelings will translate into something those employees can appreciate.

Or in other words, looking all sad and mopey around them won't really do anything to help them, so I think it would be better to actually do something about how you feel, or just change the way you feel about that by thinking a little bit differently.

For instance, I don't think the employees feel all that sad about having a job there, and if they really did feel sad about how much (or little) they get paid, they would either not be working there or they would be working toward finding a higher paying job.

And it's truly amazing for me to see how very little some people need to get by.

[seamusz]

I've probably said all that I need to on this topic, but I will ask all of you who aren't convinced of the unethical practices and exploitation of walmart to study up on it. Also, the documentary, Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price, is out, so see if you can. You might be surprised at some of the info in it.

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Most of them that work there do have a choice...and like some have said, if they don't like it, go somewhere else. But at one Wal-mart we frequented, a majority of the people working there were elderly folks who had to work because their retirement wasn't enough. That's what made me sad...80 year old men and women struggling to put food on the table. The young ones, the ones with their whole lives ahead of them...they need go back to school and get a better job.

But Ray, you called my bluff...I don't feel sorry enough about it because I'm not willing to fork over anymore of my money than I already do. And, they do have a job...which is more than some can say...

My point is, I can see both sides of the issue...so it is hard to for me completly justify either one.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 15 2005, 06:33 PM

For instance, I don't think the employees feel all that sad about having a job there, and if they really did feel sad about how much (or little) they get paid, they would either not be working there or they would be working toward finding a higher paying job.

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True; I know a few people who work for Walmart, and they seem quite satisfied there. They have at least as much reason to be happy as the Target and Kmart employees...

As I've said before, if you feel the need to avoid Walmart, you should feel the same obligation to avoid all large retail companies.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Outshined+Nov 15 2005, 05:31 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-prisonchaplain@Nov 15 2005, 04:55 PM

Arguments against Walmart:

#1 IMHO is that it is strongly anti-union.

Low wages and benefits for employees.

Too many part-time positions--meaning again, low wages and few benefits

Vendors are forced to sell at extremely low prices

More and more, it seems Walmart is purchasing from China, which has a poor human rights record

←

True of just about every major retailer in America (or any other business in the US, I might add). B)

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ABSOLUTELY!!

My kids have worked fast food for decades and they get no better pay than the Walmart kids do... If they want a better paying job... they should just look elsewhere instead of trying to shut it down...

[prisonchaplain]

Once again, I come out of hiding. This time, I'm forced to respond to my own post, because the one NO vote only offered a reference to another website. So, here's my rebuttal against the NO:

#1 IMHO is that it is strongly anti-union.

In the Seattle-Tacoma area the newspapers seem to carry 2-3 anti-Walmart letters to the editor per week. The consistancy of themes suggests to me that it is union money and thinking that is at the root of the opposition. One letter writer even said people shouldn't purchase at Walmart because doing so would be to support the Red Chinese communist regime. Those elitist liberal intellectual types were probably thinking, "How do we convince Red State America to stop frequenting these stores? We'll rehash the Red Scare. Those idiots will fall for it." NEWS FLASH: Ideological communism fell with the Berlin Wall. Yes socialism and dictatorships still prevail, but there is no international "workers of the world unit to overthrow bougeasie capitalism" conspiracy left to fight.

Low wages and benefits for employees.

Most of the workers are part-time, and most are doing entry-level work. So, yes, the wages are relatively low. However, they are not lower than many other entry-level positions, and they are often well above legal minimums.

Too many part-time positions--meaning again, low wages and few benefits

Most people working part time are supplementing family income, gaining pocket money while studying, or they are new to the job market, and need an entry-level position.

Vendors are forced to sell at extremely low prices

As the famous Oingo Boingo pop music group sang in the 80s: There ain't nothing wrong with capitalism, there ain't nothing wrong with free enterprise--What's wrong with you you middle-class socialist brat! You ain't worked a day in your life!!"

Hey, it's called business. You want to provide products for Walmart to sell, you've got to provide a lot, and you've got to provide it cheap. If you don't like it, approach Nordstrom's (or insert your typical high-end department store name).

More and more, it seems Walmart is purchasing from China, which has a poor human rights record.

As does Dollar Tree, the 99-cent stores, Kmart, the membership clubs, most internet sites, and even many high-end stores. If you want to boycott China move to a rich neighborhood, where the stores can afford to sell you fancy-sounding French stuff at five times the price, and often half the level of reliability. Got freedom fries?

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[Heather]

Reading stuff like this only makes me shop at walmart more. Went there today, and I'm going back tomorrow. Thanks! :)

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Heather@Nov 15 2005, 11:05 PM

Reading stuff like this only makes me shop at walmart more. Went there today, and I'm going back tomorrow. Thanks! :)

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I know... me too. I practically live there... I will most probably do all of our Christmas shopping there.

[Tammy]

Well I have to say that I love Walmart! We have a new store in our town. My daughter worked there for a while and loved it. The wages were relative to other entry level positions. Not too many places are hiring anything but part time employees so they don't have to provide good wages or benefits. I am in a union job and have been for years and i guess I don't see any real advantage. You have to work full time to get the benefits anyway.

I have the philosophy that I shop where I can find what I want at a reasonable price. I like varitey of choices, but I also reject sales calls on the basis that if I want to buy something, I will go find it and do the research necessary to find exactly what brand and price I want to purchase. In other words don't call me -I will go the the source myself.

Walmart is my grand daughters favorite store. They are only 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 but they automatically say let's go to Walmart.

I have found LDS movies there and a member of our ward is a store manager for our Walmart. They are interested in participating in causes like Huricane Katrina and Children's Miracle Network, so I am supportive of that.

[Fiannan]

If I'm going to patronize China I'll just go there myself and cut out the middleman to buy products.

[Josie]

I have no problem with shopping at Wal-mart. They provide many jobs and do alot of good in places where they are. Them not being union does not bother me.

i agree with BenRaines, we need to bring our jobs back to America for all companies, not just Wal-mart. If we want to create jobs, that is the way to do it and stop paying other countries to make our products. To me that has hurt America's economy, not helped it. I love to see the label "Made in America".

[BenRaines]

Josie,

You may have misunderstood. I was being very sarcastic. I have no problems with foreigners making things and selling them to us inexpensively.

Look at the trouble our auto industry is in. It costs more in labor and benefits to build a car in the US than it does for the raw materials.

News headlines yesterday were "Investors worry about potential GM bankruptcy."

Life is good in the US but maybe we need to take a look at how we live compared to the rest of the world and make a few adjustments. I am not talking about moving to metal and wooden sheds but maybe reassessing our needs vs our wants.

The average size of a family home in the early 50's was 1,100 sq ft. Many may have grown up in houses that size with big families. Today the average is near 2,000 sq ft. and families are much smaller, except Fiannan's. LOL

What is wrong with this picture, if anything?

[Josie]

You are right, Ben, I did misunderstand, LOL... You know me, I do that often...

But, I still stand on what I said. Not sure what our answers are, but we have to develop more jobs in this country that pay a wage that people can live on.

And, this time, I do agree that we have to assess our needs verses our wants. Many times we buy something that we think we actually need and it is something we just want.

I have this battle with myself often. I have made a habit when I go to a store of asking myself "Do I need this or do I just want it?" Realizing that I just want it helps me lay it back down very quickly.... Don't take me wrong, I still buy things I just want, just not as much of it.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Nov 16 2005, 11:02 AM

If I'm going to patronize China I'll just go there myself and cut out the middleman to buy products.

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[Fiannan]

Globalization: The process of downsizing US worker's expectations. It's great for multinational corporations, bad for the middle/working classes. But hey, there will always be jobs for young people in the US military (not for the rich kids, they are too important to join the military) so we can fight for a country that says we are selfish if we ask for laws to protect our own industrial base.