Heath Care

[Winnie G]

“It is our responsiblility to pay our health costs”

So let us tell the elderly and the poor to pay the cost, or better yet die???

What was it that Dickens wrote:

That charity encouraged idleness and that the poor should be left to die and "decrease the surplus population"

Why should government not redeem their cost of those who are less fortunate and let so-called sin taxes pay for a national heath care for it is just like gas tax that pay for road repairs or city property taxes that pay for infrastructure or public school?

Do you believe that?

If you think that way then you would abolish the public school systems,

It is proven that so called sin taxes and personal contributions work.

We pay 29.00 dollars and work pays another 29.00 dollars.

If a large portion of sickness and long-term heath, issues can be linked to tobacco alcohol and convenient foods, (obesity)

(We pay a tax on things like frozen dinner or Kraft dinner but not on cheese and macaroni you have yet to cook)

These Taxes pay for a national heath care system.

Why should a county have a population live in fear of getting ill, who work just to pay for heath care insurance?

I have a friend in Michigan who works just to pay for their heath care premiums because one of her sons has heath issues. She would be a stay at home mom other ways.

The parents do not have coverage just the kids. They joke that they would lose it all if one of them got sick. The US will never have a fair heath care system because the insurance companies lobby the government to stop it. After all it is the grab for the all mighty buck and that a free market with less taxes mantra.

People may say remarks like that but life happens and you loose it all.

“So why do so many Canadians come to the USA to get treatment”?

Its money, if you want to get it now yah go down south, I had to wait for gallbladder surgery until I was popped up to the top of the list one night.

A national heath care systems have one flaw, those who are in grater need get surgery first depending on were you live, larger cities longer waits for none life threatening procurers. This is not like having a baby or series ER visits. It has its flaws but I can not even dream of it any other way and I CAN state my life on that!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 15 2005, 11:04 PM

“It is our responsiblility to pay our health costs”

So let us tell the elderly and the poor to pay the cost, or better yet die???

What was it that Dickens wrote:

That charity encouraged idleness and that the poor should be left to die and "decrease the surplus population"

Why should government not redeem their cost of those who are less fortunate and let so-called sin taxes pay for a national heath care for it is just like gas tax that pay for road repairs or city property taxes that pay for infrastructure or public school?

Do you believe that?

If you think that way then you would abolish the public school systems,

It is proven that so called sin taxes and personal contributions work.

We pay 29.00 dollars and work pays another 29.00 dollars.

If a large portion of sickness and long-term heath, issues can be linked to tobacco alcohol and convenient foods, (obesity)

(We pay a tax on things like frozen dinner or Kraft dinner but not on cheese and macaroni you have yet to cook)

These Taxes pay for a national heath care system.

Why should a county have a population live in fear of getting ill, who work just to pay for heath care insurance?

I have a friend in Michigan who works just to pay for their heath care premiums because one of her sons has heath issues. She would be a stay at home mom other ways.

The parents do not have coverage just the kids. They joke that they would lose it all if one of them got sick. The US will never have a fair heath care system because the insurance companies lobby the government to stop it. After all it is the grab for the all mighty buck and that a free market with less taxes mantra.

People may say remarks like that but life happens and you loose it all.

“So why do so many Canadians come to the USA to get treatment”?

Its money, if you want to get it now yah go down south, I had to wait for gallbladder surgery until I was popped up to the top of the list one night.

A national heath care systems have one flaw, those who are in grater need get surgery first depending on were you live, larger cities longer waits for none life threatening procurers. This is not like having a baby or series ER visits. It has its flaws but I can not even dream of it any other way and I CAN state my life on that!

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You have made some really good points here Winnie...

[dontagreeljefe]

Classic statement of ronald reagan the worse thing you can hear is were from the government and were here to help. I wonder if sin taxes encourage people to sin. The government wants the money. Are you going to add taxes to french fries steak and milk for the same reason things harm you in them. Who needs to pay for bill gates medicine.

Adam was to earn his bread by the sweat of his brow not his neighbors. I know of new zealand doctors that went to south africa because they were the only commonwealth country without socialized medicine.

On any thing does a city councilman have the right to go to the bank I patron and take money out of my account because someone is starving or groceries out of my cupboard. I can and should give. But were is it there job to steal from me. That is the flaw is it is not given willingly.

In america if you have a life threatening emergency they have to take you. And its integrity to pay your own bill. But shouldn't you pay for your own routine eye and dental care. After all arent you the one that used it.

The us has the best health care and longest lived people in the world. Name one person that has died because they did not have good health care in America. I can't think of any that that was the reason they died.

Forced charity is not charity. That is lucifer. Charity is when I go get my checkbook and willingly write the check out myself. Not when its forced like in government. Church has taught do all in our power to take care of ourselves then family then church but never government.

I think it was Marion G Romney it was in a recent church news who said no true latter day saint when able will shift the burden to someone else for his care.

With socialized programs many people that dont need them use them so in essence let the government pay there lighting there water cable bills and vacations.

[Winnie G]

Sin taxes encourage people to sin

That has to be the most unintelligent statement I have ever heard.

I use to be a smoker I use to say when cigarettes reach a dollar a pack Ill quit. Well I did not till much later and it was the gospel that made me choose to quit.

They were over six dollars a pack back then, there over ten dollars a pack now. People still smoke.

The above statement reminds me of the Devil Made Me Do It!

In america if you have a life threatening emergency they have to take you.

A friend of ours at conference weekend at October conference two years ago had a seizure. (A returned Elder who served in our aria.)

I watched the staff at Zion hospital browbeat him in to thinking he would die if he did not have a cat scan, they know he did not have insurance.

His family stood there being told they could lose their son.

The cat scan was negative thank goodness.

However, before he could put his pants on there was a woman from billing and that is when the real browbeating begins.

I became so angry my husband took me to the waiting room.

He know owe a gigantic medical bill for what a doctor to poke at him and order a cat scan ? he is reminded they will ruin his credit if it was not paying off in 30 days.

This story ends with bipolar disorder and no way to earn an income to pay off the first bill or any treatment to come.

Life threatening emergency is a very slippery statement, you can have your broken arm set but the nerve damage surgery is with held.

My Uncle a dairy farmer did not have the right converge you see so that again is an example of America heath care and insurance.

Socialized programs don’t work the way you seem to think they do.

National heath care gives every one a leave playing field.

This is not a hand out or even a hand up.

Those of us that live above the poverty line pay a premium those who do fill out a form and the premium is waved.

The way you see it I would have been left with out basic heath care when my ex left me with four children to raise. Things like check-ups would have been a burden for me to pay for. Luckily for me I had heath coverage.

My sister was told she had 3 stag ovarian cancer not that long ago. She had no heath care coverage and could not have regular check ups. This has been a death sentence for my sister. She lives in OR

You can not see the wisdom in a National heath care? Then you don’t have a dieing family members like I do.

My mother my sister and our grandmother before us.

I had my check up two weeks ago, I had blood tests, one especially for ovarian cancer marker a chest x ray and a Mammogram.

All of it paid for by a National heath care system that I have paid in to.

The National heath care system advertises prevention.

When we lived in Nova Scotia in a rural aria they would hold women’s clinics at the local small Hospital and a mammogram bus would be there. Elderly women who find traveling difficult could received preventive heath care in their rural aria.

It was a day filled with women’s heath care information and a chance to see a women heath specialist in all arias of women’s heath. It was a blessing for my self and all the members of that rural aria. Some of the sisters would make a date to attend together supporting each other. Elderly sisters had sisters to lean on and a arm to hold.

I want you to imagine cancer treatment with held because your heath care does not cover it all. Like my mothers paper snafu. What if that had been before her cancer diagnoses? Would it be fair that she would have to wait till after New Years for that test and diagnoses.

You seem to like to quote church leaders in your posts. Well that fine and dandy but remember the larger part of the church no longer lives with in the United States.

And a good chunk find it hard to believe that the United States has a have and have not heath care system. Why because they live with a national heath care system of some form or another.

Once a government stops listening to all the fat cat lobbyists and special interest groups, and gets down to the business of taking care of all the citizens of the United States the Blessings will flow and the United States will grow in to a county were the world would look up to again. I grow up in that county.

You cannot ignore the heath care of its neediest citizens and not hold your head up high.

A National heath care system is not the big boogie man lobbyists and special interest would like you to think. Ask your government leaders were that comes from?

There are many parts of the world were people live with a National heath care and their rights are not with held and there is not some communist hiding in our doctors office.

I think your getting social welfare mixed up with National heath care.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

I had a dear friend who married and lived down here for several decades... she and her family just moved back to Canada two years ago... She says the taxes up there make our taxes here look like nothing...

She says they are taxed up the ying yang there... I guess that is why you can have such a program... but is that better?

[Winnie G]

Ontario and Quebec BC are the worst but they have a large population = higher taxes also ONT has no heath premiums because of it.

There is a PST of 7% like your state tax and a GST of 7% that is a federal tax.

Alberta has only GST 7%

When I lived there had premiums of $57.00 dollars a month for a family of five, work covered the other $57.00 dollars.

When I was a single mother my premiums were waved do to my low income.

I also have low heath premiums were I live now. The $29.00 dollars covers my premiums and also covers (some dental) and drugs I pay 20% for my drug costs.

Is it worth it, for me yes, some of the heath issues my family and myself personally would have wiped us out. I should not be alive from my cancer, months of treatment would have wiped us out. Recovery from two car accidents and months of orthopedic treatment for my son and me again would have crushed us.

He is 6'5 now and still walks with a rounded walking limp.

My family is astonished at the heath care I have received under the Canadian heath care system and the cost.

My best friend in Michigan went over the allotted time of 12 hours for labor and delivery of her first child and she was handed a bill of $1.500 that was to be settled apron her discharge.

We had babies the same year, I had the same labor time 12 hours but I had complications and was discharged 10 days later. My bill was mailed to me.

$37.00 dollars for TV rental and phone. She is the one who works to pay there premiums.

Her father when to his bank and took out a small lone to cover what her coverage did not. The family joke is he is Grandpas 1500 dollar boy.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Well that doesn't sound so bad... at least not as bad as my friend made it out to be..

[gwell]

We pay for health care through other means as well......Income tax/Property Tax/GST/Being alive tax.........Health care in Canada isnt the best, but at least if I need it it is there....I dont have to be dieing to finally break down and go see the doctor....

Right now there is a big debate over private vs public health care with our Premier being the one leading the charge.....Lots of people scared that it'll turn into a two tier system......

[Winnie G]

Ah, gwell you live in Alberta, I spent ten years there at the air force base in Edmonton.

It is hard to believe “King Ralph” is still the Premier there. His sure errand that nick name by now he has been Premier as long as I can remember. I left Edmonton aria in 94 and he was still Premier then.

If it goes to a two-tier system there, it will be breaking the federal law that enacted national heath care at lest that is the talk in other provinces. Ralph is more for large business and big oil, but you cannot complain about Alberta’s lack of PST.

I was in shock as to high things like cereal and TP was from Alberta to Ontario that was sticker shock!

I received all my cancer surgery and treatment, orthopedic surgery’s in St. Albert.

I spent a few days in ICU once with phenomena there as well. I was treated like gold but I was not to happy about being discharged once your IV comes out. I was still breathing like Darth Vader when I went home that was a new thing in acted to lower heath care costs. It freaked me out until I received a visit from the health nurse at home every day for another week.

I cannot complain I had both US and Canadian heath care and I would take Canadian over any were else.

Did you get that cold snap that blow though here a couple days ago?

We had six inches over night and boy did it blow.

One of my sons lives in Calgary now he called and said the weather cant make up its mind.

[gwell]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 18 2005, 12:12 AM

Ah, gwell you live in Alberta, I spent ten years there at the air force base in Edmonton.

It is hard to believe “King Ralph” is still the Premier there. His sure errand that nick name by now he has been Premier as long as I can remember. I left Edmonton aria in 94 and he was still Premier then.

If it goes to a two-tier system there, it will be breaking the federal law that enacted national heath care at lest that is the talk in other provinces. Ralph is more for large business and big oil, but you cannot complain about Alberta’s lack of PST.

I was in shock as to high things like cereal and TP was from Alberta to Ontario that was sticker shock!

I received all my cancer surgery and treatment, orthopedic surgery’s in St. Albert.

I spent a few days in ICU once with phenomena there as well. I was treated like gold but I was not to happy about being discharged once your IV comes out. I was still breathing like Darth Vader when I went home that was a new thing in acted to lower heath care costs. It freaked me out until I received a visit from the health nurse at home every day for another week.

I cannot complain I had both US and Canadian heath care and I would take Canadian over any were else.

Did you get that cold snap that blow though here a couple days ago?

We had six inches over night and boy did it blow.

One of my sons lives in Calgary now he called and said the weather cant make up its mind.

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Ya...pretty cold for a bit there........But beautiful the last few days....

So were you in the Sturgeon Hospital? Thats where we had our litle one....Good hospital.....

There will be two tier health care in AB soon.....Ralph is labelling things as "Non_Essential" to get around the health care laws.....

Where do you live now?

[dontagreeljefe]

I would rather pay less taxes and be responsible for my own health needs. I can manage my money better than uncle sam. Walter Williams is an economic;s proffeser sometimes fills in for rush is pretty smart on issue;s of socialized medicne and such.

Bill Clinton used plenty of sob stories to get his point accross. That is sickening and old. I grew up on a dairy farm myself. Plenty of self employed people dont have insurance. dfa however provided some. In the us constitution were is the word health care. Part of integrity is paying for products and services we use. Charity through families and churches and private is noble and necessary.

People have survived for a long time without government funded medicine and the like.. Should be able to survive now without it as well..

http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/deadmeat/ How many people are alive because of government funded medical needs. How many died because government didn't pay medical bills.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 17 2005, 11:12 PM

Did you get that cold snap that blow though here a couple days ago?

We had six inches over night and boy did it blow.

One of my sons lives in Calgary now he called and said the weather cant make up its mind.

This is a bit OT but, so far Alberta (Edmonton anyway) missed the blizzard that southern Manitoba and Saskatchewan got. Right now it is about 10C, with winds gusting at 60km/hr - it's very windy but still quite nice, considering the wind. Tomorrow it's suppose to go up to 14C.

We're having a heat wave!

M.

[pushka]

'People have survived for a long time without government funded medicine and the like.. Should be able to survive now without it as well..

http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/deadmeat/ How many people are alive because of government funded medical needs. How many died because government didn't pay medical bills. ' Quote: Dontagreeljefe.

I really cannot stand this 'I'm all right Jack' attitude towards health!

When the NHS began in the UK in 1947, on its first day, the hospitals and doctors surgeries were unindated with patients who had stayed at home as they couldn't afford the doctors' fees, some had been in bed for up to 14 years because they were suffering from debilitating illnesses but couldn't afford to pay for a doctor to visit them. Would you really like this to happen again?

[Winnie G]

dontagreeljefe

In the us constitution were is the word health care.

How Morally repugnant and in different that statement is!

You tell that the millions how live in the inter city’s of the United Sates of American!

Singe mothers and their children.

You don’t get it do you? Do not Clam to be a Christian and be indifferent to the heath care of your bothers and sisters around you!

You what those who suffer with out heath care a have and have not society?

I think I with wash my hands now they feel the dirty indifference of your last post.

[pushka]

Well Said Winnie!

[dontagreeljefe]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 19 2005, 08:27 AM

dontagreeljefe

In the us constitution were is the word health care.

How Morally repugnant and in different that statement is!

You tell that the millions how live in the inter city’s of the United Sates of American!

Singe mothers and their children.

You don’t get it do you? Do not Clam to be a Christian and be indifferent to the heath care of your bothers and sisters around you!

You what those who suffer with out heath care a have and have not society?

I think I with wash my hands now they feel the dirty indifference of your last post.

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Those single mothers should get married and stay married. Most of them are single mothers because they jump in bed with an irresponsible sperm donor who does not care and want the government to pay for there and there sperm donors responsibility. They can fix that. Get a good education and job skills so you won't be in that situation. Not all single mothers do that sometimes death and unavoidable divorce happens but the high rate of illegitimacy causes single mothers in innercities.

In any case Government cannot create wealth. Someone had to earn money. One of Christs many marred images. Jesus is the same person who said to earn his bread by the sweat of his own not his neighbors brow. Same person that said thou shalt not covet. Wanting something that is not rightfully yours does that qualify as coveting. Who earned money to spend. Who has a right to enjoy the fruits of there labors. Same person who said thou shalt not steal.

In developed countries people have a way out of poverty education industry and thrift. Many have overcame it. Government spoonfeeding them makes it worse.

Suffer without health care. Purchase it. In developed countries more often than not it is a money management problem. Purchase your own insurance or if employer does earn it. IF a major medical emergency happens and costs more than insurance it is your job to pay your bill even if it takes a long time to pay. That is a mark of true integrity. Paying what you owe. Socialized medicine can give you not as good doctors were competition is necessary doctors will be best.

In the us the most generous states are those that vote republican and stingiest ones who think the government knows how to manage your money.

Part of the war in heaven was force. There is nothing Christian about force. Christian charity is willingly helping your brothers and sisters in distress not involuntaryily redistributing wealth. Is it christian to walk into a wealthy neighbors home and take cash from his door when he is absent or by force to help a poor neighbor. That is theft and what basiat calls is legalized pluned when government does it.

Part of church welfare is helping people become self reliant. You don't get that spoon feeding with anything. It is helping people become self reliant so they can afford the basic neccesseties of life not spoon feeding.

That makes it worse and creates no incentive to get off the dole. If government keeps doing that they will eventually run out of money. 1 because there will be no incentive and it will be drained because people wont make enough. And some people will have I dont need to take care of my health needs the government will. Problem the government won't be able to collect enough revenue for health care needs and it will go bankrupt.

If people have problems the christian thing to do would be to make sure they could do all they can themselves to take care of themselves. Then for charities churches families and individuals to voluntarily help them after they exhausted all avenues. That is caring for the sick.

countries were government overtaxes can fall by the wayside into bankruptcy besides taking away incentive for people to earn more because they don't get to keep it. Flat taxes are great taht way.

Best thing government can do is ensure life liberty protection of property of people enforce the laws that protect them and let a free market do the rest. That works wonders for food transportation, clothing, shelter and yes even medicine.

[Winnie G]

Those single mothers should get married and stay married. Most of them are single mothers because they jump in bed with an irresponsible sperm donor who does not care and want the government to pay for there and there sperm donors responsibility. They can fix that. Get a good education and job skills so you won't be in that situation. Not all single mothers do that sometimes death and unavoidable divorce happens but the high rate of illegitimacy causes single mothers in innercities.

There is just so much ignorance in you post I don’t know were to start!

First Oh grate Know it all, I was one of these so-called single mothers.

I marred for all the right reasons young yes but not anything abnormal for the 70”s.

Three weeks in to our union, I received the first of many beatings at his parents home.

Have you ever had that happen to YOU!

This may Offend some of you so I say sorry up front before you read the rest of this post.

Let’s see there was the strapping, having your face shoved in to a burner on high, a broken sternum (that’s in your chest) a broken jaw, two broken check bones, a fractured eye socket, A broken tailbone, two dislocated arms and a fractured voice box and a miscarriage of my twin girls at six months. The doctors had to bring on labor and I gave birth to two tinny girls both with injuries, from the beatings them selfs. To top off forcible sex acts and unlawful confinement.

Oh, by the way we know each other since I was 15 we attended the same every thing so he was no stranger he was a freand of my older brother who was his best man.

My 2nd husband was a wonderful decent man till his family illness of alcoholism took over his life three years in to our marriage.

Not one of them has assisted with the support of their children number #2 still owes me to this date 42.000 dollars. The government has chased him and even nailed him a few times That’s why its down to 42 instead of 51.

I attended the University of Victoria 1977. I was and am employable and worked my backside off to raise my four children. I have re-educated myself three times to keep up with the working world.

Please stop using the gospel to prove your point that you are some how all knowing.

single mothers should get married and stay married

because they jump in bed with an irresponsible sperm donor

Matt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

You are so far from a true Christian you can even fallow the things Jesus asked of All of US. Yes that Includes you as all of us.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So tell us dontagreeljefe witch of these neighbors would you have us blow off?

Sorry your kids sick but you are working poor who cant afford heath care.

After all it “all their fault right” or are you just a all knowing hypocrite?

You know what they say about people who spew scripture to their own gain at the expense of others?

<span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>Stop drop and roll wont help you in hell! </span>

[pushka]

I wonder why people like Charles Dickens wrote such books as Hard Times, and even A Christmas Carol...and why philanthropists in the UK, who were religiously motivated rather than politically, sought to ensure good housing and such for their workers when the slums of the previous century had to be demolished, people such as Cadbury and Rowntree...

They really must have believed in the ideals that Dontagreeljefe adheres too...

Hey! Dontagreeljefe, we welcome back the new Victorian Ages under your governance....whooppee!!!! 'Happy days are here again'...tell that to the little matchstick selling girl...

[Outshined]

Originally posted by pushka@Nov 20 2005, 11:33 PM

I wonder why people like Charles Dickens wrote such books as Hard Times, and even A Christmas Carol...and why philanthropists in the UK, who were religiously motivated rather than politically, sought to ensure good housing and such for their workers when the slums of the previous century had to be demolished, people such as Cadbury and Rowntree...

They really must have believed in the ideals that Dontagreeljefe adheres too...

Hey! Dontagreeljefe, we welcome back the new Victorian Ages under your governance....whooppee!!!!  'Happy days are here again'...tell that to the little matchstick selling girl...

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[pushka]

Which bit are you laughing at Outshined?

[Outshined]

Originally posted by pushka@Nov 21 2005, 04:12 AM

Which bit are you laughing at Outshined?

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The whole sharp-witted sarcasm in that post. It was right on target! B)

[pushka]

Thank you Outshined...sorry, I was feeling a little over sensitive and thought you were laughing at me and my ideas

[dontagreeljefe]

I wonder this seems to be making chrles dickens a bigger goat than evil men like Marx and Engels. People suffer those problems were there isn't socialized medicine as well. Here is some excellent articles on personal responsibility. IF your taxes weren't so high you could afford better health coverage.

The us constitution does not have charity in it and it was inspired of the lord. President Benson said the reason in america we make mroe things is because its not guaranteed. Incentive. Its still a persons repsonsiblitiy to pay as much as he or she can for there medical needs. Food clothing and shelter. http://www.lonsberry.com/writings.cfm?story=1735&go=4 http://www.lonsberry.com/writings.cfm?story=1323&go=4 A recent church news article on bailing people out of debt quoted that no true latter day saint while able will shift the burden of his care to someone else.

We all should be very charitable to those less fortunate but charity the gospel way is all done willingly not forced trhough the government. I would recommend Ezra Taft Bensons the proper role of government. One talk at byu he gave said England and NEw york went bankrupt trying to provide for the needs of there people.

[pushka]

Originally posted by dontagreeljefe@Nov 21 2005, 07:47 PM

I wonder this seems to be making chrles dickens a bigger goat than evil men like Marx and Engels.  People suffer those problems were there isn't socialized medicine as well.  . 

  The us constitution does not have charity in it and it was inspired of the lord.      We all should be very charitable to those less fortunate but charity the gospel way is all done willingly not forced trhough the government.

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1. Marx, Engels and Charles Dickens wrote about the society they saw BEFORE socialised health care came into being...notice that the UK has improved since the NHS began in 1947.

2. 'The us constitution does not have charity in it and it was inspired of the lord. ' Doesn't say much for The Lord's charitable attitude to the poor and needy does it...I thought better of Him.

3. 'charity the gospel way is all done willingly not forced trhough the government.' The Government that brought in the NHS was voted in by the people, it was not forced upon them, and the British people are in favour, generally, of increased income taxes to cover the needs of the NHS...unlike yourself. We believe in an EQUAL system where medical help is available to ALL, not just to the wealthy.

[Guest bizabra]

BIZ: I agree with Winnie on this 100%. You said it!

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 16 2005, 12:34 PM

Sin taxes encourage people to sin

That has to be the most unintelligent statement I have ever heard.

I use to be a smoker I use to say when cigarettes reach a dollar a pack Ill quit. Well I did not till much later and it was the gospel that made me choose to quit.

They were over six dollars a pack back then, there over ten dollars a pack now. People still smoke.

The above statement reminds me of the Devil Made Me Do It!

In america if you have a life threatening emergency they have to take you.

A friend of ours at conference weekend at October conference two years ago had a seizure. (A returned Elder who served in our aria.)

I watched the staff at Zion hospital browbeat him in to thinking he would die if he did not have a cat scan, they know he did not have insurance.

His family stood there being told they could lose their son.

The cat scan was negative thank goodness.

However, before he could put his pants on there was a woman from billing and that is when the real browbeating begins.

I became so angry my husband took me to the waiting room.

He know owe a gigantic medical bill for what a doctor to poke at him and order a cat scan ? he is reminded they will ruin his credit if it was not paying off in 30 days.

This story ends with bipolar disorder and no way to earn an income to pay off the first bill or any treatment to come.

Life threatening emergency is a very slippery statement, you can have your broken arm set but the nerve damage surgery is with held.

My Uncle a dairy farmer did not have the right converge you see so that again is an example of America heath care and insurance.

Socialized programs don’t work the way you seem to think they do.

National heath care gives every one a leave playing field.

This is not a hand out or even a hand up.

Those of us that live above the poverty line pay a premium those who do fill out a form and the premium is waved.

The way you see it I would have been left with out basic heath care when my ex left me with four children to raise. Things like check-ups would have been a burden for me to pay for. Luckily for me I had heath coverage.

My sister was told she had 3 stag ovarian cancer not that long ago. She had no heath care coverage and could not have regular check ups. This has been a death sentence for my sister. She lives in OR

You can not see the wisdom in a National heath care? Then you don’t have a dieing family members like I do.

My mother my sister and our grandmother before us.

I had my check up two weeks ago, I had blood tests, one especially for ovarian cancer marker a chest x ray and a Mammogram.

All of it paid for by a National heath care system that I have paid in to.

The National heath care system advertises prevention.

When we lived in Nova Scotia in a rural aria they would hold women’s clinics at the local small Hospital and a mammogram bus would be there. Elderly women who find traveling difficult could received preventive heath care in their rural aria.

It was a day filled with women’s heath care information and a chance to see a women heath specialist in all arias of women’s heath. It was a blessing for my self and all the members of that rural aria. Some of the sisters would make a date to attend together supporting each other. Elderly sisters had sisters to lean on and a arm to hold.

I want you to imagine cancer treatment with held because your heath care does not cover it all. Like my mothers paper snafu. What if that had been before her cancer diagnoses? Would it be fair that she would have to wait till after New Years for that test and diagnoses.

You seem to like to quote church leaders in your posts. Well that fine and dandy but remember the larger part of the church no longer lives with in the United States.

And a good chunk find it hard to believe that the United States has a have and have not heath care system. Why because they live with a national heath care system of some form or another.

Once a government stops listening to all the fat cat lobbyists and special interest groups, and gets down to the business of taking care of all the citizens of the United States the Blessings will flow and the United States will grow in to a county were the world would look up to again. I grow up in that county.

You cannot ignore the heath care of its neediest citizens and not hold your head up high.

A National heath care system is not the big boogie man lobbyists and special interest would like you to think. Ask your government leaders were that comes from?

There are many parts of the world were people live with a National heath care and their rights are not with held and there is not some communist hiding in our doctors office.

I think your getting social welfare mixed up with National heath care.

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