more rant than advice - Why do I care

[Elgama]

Will probably be Ok in the morning lol but today because of dark nights (its 4pm and I can see stars) and been grey all day life just feels worse.

There has been a continuing problem at church - I know my daughter was bullied by an adult there, and I think quite nastily. I know as well my daughter, another Sister was bullied badly by this adult and another Sister within the last year, this has been a recurring problem for the past 17 years with the sister . Quite simply my children aren't safe at church, every blessing I have had, every prayer said, everything in me says so. And that doesn't matter I have with prayer taken controversial decision not to attend church for the time being, because I knew I wasn't being taken seriously. I know its controversial but I also know as sure as I know normally I would be saying it was the wrong decision its what the Lord has asked (blessing has promised my children will be unaffected by it and protected - that promise has been kept in amazing ways)

As result of phone conversation I now know how I am being perceived by some people - and think it only hurt because I really like the person - basically I am unforgiving, refusing to accept the Sisters have changed, and jist seems to be because its not happening to anyone elses child I am overeacting (how many children or adults have to be seriously bullied for it to be wrong??)), I think it also bothers me because sin of unforgivness with said Sister was a fault (I was bullied myself when I was low). Right now its not actually feel more pity than anything, I know how Heavenly Father feels towards all children and our Ellie the way her prayers are answered its like He has a soft spot for her sometimes (in 6 years of walking everywhere with her she has never once been caught out in the rain, her brothers and me get soaked quite often), but if Heavenly Father says the Sister hasn't changed, she hasn't and I am not about to trust my child to a Sister who harmed her on at least 3 occasions (I now know more people have started phoning this week with information confirming contents of blessings etc) - we have prayed every week to go back, I keep saying what we told by Elder Holland about not getting out the boat, my husband got up next morning after whatever dream he had and said when the boat is on fire we are safer in the water.

Why is it hurting me what someone said? it was what I suspected anyway, my testimony of the church and the Lord is strong, but so is my testimony of this, ugh maybe just some uplift - think maybe it hurts because right now not going is harder than going. Maybe just some prayers to get us back to church would help or something uplifting

[Elgama]

now I know lol looks like I have at least a cold

[Elgama]

Ok Heavenly Father knows what I need baby decided to clap whilst the older 2 were singing if your happy nd you know it and stamped his feet lol I feel good again knowing I got great kids and I am doing Ok as a Mum

[dazed-and-confused]

is there a reason that you can't attend sacrement and stand by your daughter?

[Elgama]

is there a reason that you can't attend sacrement and stand by your daughter?

only a blessing and very definite scriptural opening told me not to - that more would be achieved by stepping back, I actually attended for 3 months without my daughter before we stopped entirely but the prayer answers were very definite had I listened to Heavenly Father could have saved family a lot of heartache, I kept telling me it wasn't what Heavenly Father would say, but He did. And the wisdom in what He has requested has been shown and we have had the blessings he has promised.

The Blessing I had also told me not to question too much, so I may never know why He wants it done this way.

[WmLee]

I hate to even got into this but the idea that our Father in Heaven gave you an answer, to a prayer, and you feel prompted NOT to go to church cannot be right.

Had that prompting been to attend another Ward for a season, until things settle down, to meet with your Bishop regarding your feelings and request your records be sent to another Ward, i could understand any of these types of answers. But to even think you have been instructed to stop going to His house, to stop renewing your covenants throught the sacrament . . . that prompting was NOT from our Heavenly Father.

You made a covenant at baptism to be a Christian, to be a member of His church. That trumps anything else you think you are prompted to do that takes you away from those blessing.

[Elgama]

I'm not expecting anyone to agree its right and thats fine, a year ago I'd have said the same - I have sat down with the Branch President on several occasions, another unit hasn't been physically possible until this week (because of weather not to mention our own branch has been closed for several weeks), and we have no money to do it this week, petrol money was required for my daughter to get to hospital.... However I am a Latter Day Saint because Heavenly Father required it, and I follow Him before all else. He has promised it will be a short season and no harm will befall us as a result. My blessing has been pretty specific, and I am starting to see what He asked was incredibly wise, the way this prayer was answered I am in no doubt its from Heavenly Father, He also provides us with witness this is correct nearly every morning after prayer (we are praying to go back). The fact not many believe me I am fine with took me 3 months to believe it lol, however some people from my unit who I would have expected to speak to me and tell me it is rubbish (in a very loving way), haven't quite the reverse have just offered lots of support and have told me my family's safety has to come first.

[FairChild]

You have had quite a struggle with this Ma. I feel as if you are doing the right thing. Forgiving an abuser is one thing, but allowing an abuser to continue her abuse is something else. No one needs to be bullied, especially a child. Working to guide, support and help your daughter will greatly enhance her life. I am proud of you for being such an amazing, loving mother. FC

[Elgama]

thanks FC, we are now in a position to hopefully do more, just felt like a bit of a slap in the face but am OK now lol, I appreciate not everyone wants to or will believe me but every person I tell becomes responsible, but apparently the Sister has repented and changed and its all in the past - I have through all this got the impression Heavenly Father has a very definite plan there are things that have happened over past 17 years since my baptism and throughout my husband's life that have prepared us for this, and its not really related to what happened to my daughter its the means to get done what needs to be done. I have tried to call it bullying rather than abuse, but do hope I can get people to listen couple of other people are starting to become concerned about another child. Satan really did not want my daughter going to the preschool we sent her to but because of that preschool I received a lot of support in this (we even unknowingly moved next door but one to her teacher lol)

Had lovely thing last Saturday, my daughter said to me going into art class for the first time its OK Mum I now know if someone hurts me you will believe me and it won't happen again. We are slowly hearing more out of her, but don't think I'll ever really know what happened the day she was alone. I think thats part of why not to be there, with my son being possibly autistic I can't guarantee not to need to run after him or be distracted, or need to take my other son into the changing room, I refuse to take my other children in there as that is where said Sister used to corner me. If my middle child is harmed I would never know as he cannot speak

[Elphaba]

. . . my daughter said to me going into art class for the first time its OK Mum I now know if someone hurts me you will believe me and it won't happen again.

I've always thought you were a wonderful mom, and this just proves it. Every child deserves the same.

Elphaba

[need4peace]

Your situation reminded me of bullying I experienced not that long ago when I lived in another area.

I witnessed sisters bullying other sisters & even singled one sister as their main target. Those sisters that were bullied or those sick of witnessing the bullying either went inactive or moved away just to escape the bullying that simply wasn't addressed. The bullies were a group of sisters who didn't take kindly to anyone refusing to join the persecution of their main target. If you didn't join in then you 'must' be the 'enemy' so you then become alienated and bullied into joining them or leaving or being plain broken.

I found it to be very alarming - the bullies unbelievably have so much control over the Branch. They could convince outsiders and/or leaders that there was a problem with certain sisters who were just not getting along. They could convince them that the main target sister was the instigator of the disharmony. People would then avoid her. What was so strange is it was left unchecked for years before I stepped foot in the place.

When I first encountered the situation I was confused - everyone acted so 'nice' yet something was making me feel uneasy but I couldn't put my finger on what was happening.

After 6 months I was called as Relief Society President my eyes were quickly opened - I quickly learnt in an unpleasant way what was 'really' happening. The flood gates opened I received some horrid letters full of anger and gossip about the target sister in particular but they wrote things about other sisters I didn't even know; ones who had left the area or gone inactive. They wanted me to somehow deal with the target sister it was crazy.

I was given 'icing on top' when I asked for help to deal with the problem. So I increased reading the scriptures, and fasting and praying, I continued regular trips to the Temple and cried to the Lord for help to know what to do. I received answers to prayer & was told to stand against gossip and bullying. I received Doctrine and Covenants 50 - my heart broke for all the sisters including the bullies. I sent out a request to all the sisters for the gossip etc to stop but before too long I became the 'new' target - I calmly refused to give into their threats.

They became disruptive in classes and deliberately disagreed with me when I was teaching, they'd sit up the front and glare at me so the sisters behind them couldn't see (childish), It led to them eventually boycotting R/S altogether & voiced their decision not to sustain me in my calling. But every so often one of the group would attend out of the blue which made for uneasiness in the meeting. Each bully used different tactics to support of each other.

It got worse I was yelled at in the chapel, sent abusive emails, received angry threatening phone calls, my husband and I were gossiped about, I was even verbally (although quietly) abused in the Temple grounds, wrongfully reported to Stake in an effort to get me excommunicated and it went on and on. The bullies managed to disrupt all aspects of Relief Society, they verbally denied revelations I received as part of my calling, visiting teaching was in chaos, R/S activities were also publicly boycotted or disrupted by at least one if in attendence. It was extremely tiresome in the calling trying to 'keep' or get peace in R/S. I was at wits end what to do because what ever was organised was crippled. I dreaded going to church and if I didn't know the church was true I would have been out of there at the first sign of trouble.

What I experienced was what the target sister had experienced for a decade - it was very difficult because my only 'sin' was not participating in gossip & bullying and doing my best to be on the 'Lord's side' rather than 'anyone's side'. Although at times I admit I did question myself thinking I was a hopeless R/S President> When I felt that depressive spirit I would then feel the reassuring comfort of the Holy Spirit confirming the opposite was true.

Sad to say but it was great when none of them attended the meetings because we felt the Spirit in attendance.

Within a year I asked to be released it was too difficult to handle and I hated seeing good people hurt when all they wanted to do was attend meetings in peace. Sadly they were denied that. I'd had enough

My husband (non member) was extremely upset - he could see I was trying to be calm & not cry after I got off the phone from an abusive phone call etc. I kept thinking that I didn't want him to think ill of the church because of their behaviour. He'd see me go to church trying to put a 'smile' on my face and return dejected. In the end I opened up to him carefully told him things like the gossip that involved us both. He put his foot down and refused to let me go back. He told me to go to another chapel some distance away which I did.

It was a relief to go elsewhere. My heart suddenly felt alive again, it was wonderful to feel the Spirit so strongly there. To me it felt like going home.

It was beautiful.

Disappointingly the local leaders appeared to avoid dealing with it (denial I think) and seem to put it down to something like a hens fight and act as if they'll get over it, but it is far more destructive than that.

I contacted leaders in higher positions and they were dealing with it when we thankfully were prompted to sell & move several hours away. What a blessing.

A year on and as predicted by an Area leader there is hardly anyone attending that Branch. I am not surprised and am so glad I am away from the situation but my heart goes out to those left behind who are trying to do the right thing under such trying circumstances. It is a cruel thing being bullied and it is disgusting that there are those who stand by and allow it to continue through either ignorance, through fear, or through complacency - they only encourage the bullying through their inaction.

I knew I had to work on forgiveness during that time which wasn't easy but in the long run it has been worth it. At times I felt it was too hard but when I was about to 'give up' I was prompted to remember our Saviour and Joseph Smith and how they dealt with persecution from those close to them. I knew from their example I had to endure to the end and I did. No matter what was happening around me and to me I needed to attend sacrament (somewhere) to renew my covenants as part of putting on the Armour of God. It was to keep the fiery darts of the adversary from penetrating my spirit. It would have been 'easy' to not go to church but it would have also made it too 'easy' for me to lose everything.

I thank God for a new start in a 'normal' church setting even if I have to travel an hour and a half to get there. It is worth every kilometre I travel to experience peace and know that when I get there it will be 'normal' and when I teach, sisters participate in 'normal' ways, there are 'normal' problems that are dealt with in 'normal' ways and I receive 'normal' emails and get lots of 'normal' hugs. I go home with a 'normal' and not forced smile on my face. My husband tells me he is so glad I am not there anymore. He loves that I am enjoying the difference. I am so grateful I listened and followed through against the gossip and bullying because even though the bullying hasn't been dealt with their power seems to be less and is a little easier for the target sister. She goes to sacrament and quickly leaves but I hope and pray she and the others will get to experience normality and a lovely spirit in their meetings.

Church bullying is very real in all churches unfortunately we aren't immune to it in our Church. The Church is true the gospel is perfect but we aren't.

This article by Elder Carlos E. Asay of the Seventy helped me so much because he specified the following things we can do to strengthen ourselves against apostasy:

“1. Avoid those who would tear down your faith. Faith-killers are to be shunned. The seeds which they plant in the minds and hearts of men grow like cancer and eat away the Spirit. True messengers of God are builders—not destroyers.

“2. Keep the commandments. … If we obey holy laws, we will take upon ourselves “the whole armour of God” and we will be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

“3. Follow the living prophets. …

“4. Do not contend or debate over points of doctrine. [see 3 Nephi 11:29.]The Master warned that “the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil.”

“5. Search the scriptures. … Few of us would go astray or lose our way if we regarded the scriptures as our personal guide or compass.

“6. Do not be swayed or diverted from the mission of the Church. … There are those who would draw you off course and cause you to waste time and energies. Satan used a diversion ploy when he tempted Christ in the wilderness. The Savior’s decisive response, “Get thee hence, Satan” (Matt. 4:10), is a proper example for all of us.

“7. Pray for your enemies. … “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you.”

“8. Practice ‘pure religion.’ [see James 1:27 and Alma 1:30.] … be charitable to all whether in the Church or out of the Church

“9. Remember that there may be many questions for which we have no answers and that some things have to be accepted simply on faith”

Carlos E. Asay, “Opposition to the Work of God,” Ensign, Nov 1981, 67

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Opposition to the Work of God

PS there are some great websites on bullying that are there to help understand who and what bullies are and why they are the way they are. Worth checking them out. This was my favourite Bully OnLine: bullying in the workplace, school, family and community, action you can take, stress, psychiatric injury, PTSD, resources, case histories, news and contact the media

Who are the most responsible?

Those who bully?

Or those who stand by and allow it to happen?

Those who can, do

Those who can't, bully!!!

All the best and keep close to the Lord He is the one who really knows what you are experiencing and what is in everyone's heart.

[Elgama]

Thank you so much for your post I am crying, for first time in years someone understood what I have been through, D&C 50 is one Heavenly Father has given me many times over the years - <Most of the people who have survived the last 20 years in our branch have the most amazing testmonies and spirit they have too, one lady has endured over 20 years of horrendous bullying and missed abour 6 meetings, and in someways the influx of new people has made it harder to deal with, because the bullies are intelligent plausible appearing women, it is very different when that woman who is much bigger than yourself has you pinned in a corner and is haranging you about what an awful Mother you are, even worse when this person was your YWs president for many years. Shamefully during my time in YW I let her use me, and at one other time but refusing to continue and seeing the light, meant I really understood what the most targeted Sister went through.

I am fed up with my branch being miserable and really don't want to move some of the most beautiful people I have known for years are there and right now is so hard for them - they are not being believed and that in itself is bullying them - to be told the Sister has repented when they see evidence every week she hasn't . After reading your post I understand part of a blessing now it asked me to step back so I would find the strength to act as a witness, and its right my spirit is stronger from not having to go every week, sadly have spoken to 3 sisters this week who have said the same with it being closed because of the weather, these ladies have the strongest testimonies of anyone I know.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I have no advice to offer, just a terrible sadness that people can behave this way,

[Elgama]

I've always thought you were a wonderful mom, and this just proves it. Every child deserves the same.

Elphaba

Thnks Elphie I am feeling lousy I ignored my instincts for so long and let my daughter down, something crossed my mind as I read your post, if I took my daughter to sacrament she would have to sit in easy eyesight of her abuser, who because she repented is allowed in primary and as a result my daughter who is very upset she can't go can't attend. Its taken us 6 months for my daughter to get her confidence back, and convince her its not because she was naughty she can't go to primary. I will not let her feel punished over this and keeping her next to me whilst her friends play on the field next to the chapel will not help either.

[need4peace]

Thank you so much for your post I am crying, for first time in years someone understood what I have been through, D&C 50 is one Heavenly Father has given me many times over the years -

:(My heart breaks for you and I am glad that my post was somewhat supportive. It is not easy to deal with bullying expecially when you are not believed by those in positions who can do something about it. At the time the Stake and Branch Presidents were warned by a (higher) leader in a meeting with the target sister and myself that if the bullying wasn't stopped the goal of the Branch becoming a Ward would not succeed. They were warned that the Branch would decrease instead. A year on and the prediction came to pass

one lady has endured over 20 years of horrendous bullying

I must admit the bullying for this sister went on for 20 years too I said a decade because I thought it would sound like I was exaggerating if I said 20. LOL

Although she managed to leave for a couple of years respite by travelling hours to a friendly normal ward but financially it became too much a burden so she had to go back to the Branch. On her return she was yelled at in the car park and told she wasn't welcome. Her children were treated badly by the bullies too with some refusing to go to church.

the bullies are intelligent plausible appearing women

Sad but true and that is the dangerous thing about bullying, the bullies direct the blame to their target and it goes unchecked. They have an uncanny ability to convice leaders to 'interview' the target about their accused 'offenses'.

I couldn't believe this would happen at church when the target sister told me this had happened to her; until it happened to me. I still to this day do not know what was said about me that prompted an interview with the BP his counsellors, the accuser and me in attendance. I just know that I was finally believed enough to be able to leave the room with the particular bully sister crying "it isn't fair".

Here are a few points on serial bullies that I gave the target sister from the website Bully OnLine: . It's wealth of information was of great benefit and reassurance to her and helped her understand what bullying is - she didn't have a name for what was happening to her so it was a relief for her to know.

The serial bully:

• is unusually skilled in being able to anticipate what people want to hear and then saying it plausibly
• excels at deception and should never be underestimated in their capacity to deceive
• has a Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act
• is adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise collate incriminating information about them
• often has an overwhelming, unhealthy and narcissistic attention-seeking need to portray themselves as a wonderful, kind, caring and compassionate person, in contrast to their behaviour and treatment of others; the bully sees nothing wrong with their behavior and chooses to remain oblivious to the discrepancy between how they like to be seen and how they are seen by others
• When held accountable, abusers, molesters, harassers, bullies and violent people abdicate and deny responsibility for their actions by blaming their victim.
• Bullying is behaviour, and behaviour is a choice, therefore bullying is a choice - a bad choice, but a choice.
• Bullying is in the same league as abuse, molestation, rape, paedophilia and harassment;
• sadly there are still some people who think that targets of these vile activities are partly responsible for the abuse perpetrated against them.
• Targets of bullying have no interest in power or exercising power. They go to work to work and they are not interested in office politics or conflict.
• Targets of bullying have high moral values, a well-developed integrity, a vulnerability (eg need to pay the mortgage if bullied at work), a strong sense of fair play and reasonableness, a low propensity to violence, a reluctance to pursue grievance, disciplinary or legal action, a strong forgiving streak and a mature understanding of the need to resolve conflict with dialogue. Weak people disingenuously confuse these hallmarks of character with weakness.
• Targets of bullying will withstand daily abuse for months, often years, but the first time a bully gets a taste of their own medicine they immediately run whingeing to authority demanding protection. That's weakness.

I witnessed that last point happen after we said no to the bullying; the bullies bullying behaviour became worse. It was why they campaigned to have me excommunicated.

The targeted Sister ended up being threatened with excommunication by a local leader. I witnessed her go through the pain associated with the unfairness and my heart broke for her. The Stake weren't supportive of it thankfully but the damage had been done to her reputation.

We were in the Temple together just before she learnt of his plans. We were with another sister and we both felt impressed to support the bullied sister and stand by her. It was amazing and we knew that no matter how unpopular we might become we had to stand for what was right. We had to do what the Lord wanted us to do.

In answer to prayer I felt impressed to ask myself do I want to be popular with man or with God? It was then that we made an affidavit to a leader in a higher position. I was told by local leader I was close to apostasy, I was ignored and accused of "bullying the bullies" in front of two missionaries. The missionaries were told to stay away from me too. That worked out well because by that stage my husband was not keen to have anyone from the Branch come near me. Only my trusted friends were allowed.

Over the years after missionaries first arrived in the Branch they were given instructions to keep away from the taget sister and there she remained on their do not visit list for years. Thankfully some were awake to the problem and supported her.

When I inherited the visiting teaching list the target sister and some others were marked with "do not visit" as well. I was most upopular when I did the list the way the Lord directed. It led to chaos with refusals to visit so and so or refusals to have so and so as a companion and also refusals to allow so and so to visit them. It was an absolute nightmare.

it is very different when that woman who is much bigger than yourself has you pinned in a corner and is haranging you about what an awful Mother you are,

the target sister experienced the same thing from a sister way bigger than her - standover tactics!!! I had to think for a second is this my old Branch you are describing?? LOL maybe they could become sister branches like we have sister cities

Hope I haven't raved on too much:lol:

[Peace_B_Un_2U]

Elgama, without going into why, I want you to know that I know what it is to be bullied, singled out and persecuted because of my standing for the truth against a mob of relief society sisters.

Please remember always who it is you have covenanted with and keep your eyes firmly fixed on him, for he is the only one worthy to have your attention. Even if it does not conform to what others say, listen and obey the Holy Ghost, he is the oil in your lamp, be a wise virgin and keep that lamp filled with oil. We are told that we must go through trials and tribulations so we can be like the Saviour - Moroni 7:48.

Though others may desert you the Lord never will; an added blessing to this is that you don't have to try and convince him of what is happening, he knows. Rest in his peace, find solace in his words, trust him, believe in him and believe him - he has earned the right to be your leader.

Finally, he does not give you the spirit of fear but of faith; avoid those who would tear this down; sometimes we need to stay away from church in order for us to regroup and fortify ourselves. Never stop praying or seeking guidance through the scriptures.

Remember Lehi's dream? Those who would partake of the fruit were subjected to persecution by those who had partaken but turned away. Remember also what Nephi said - heed them not. These people are necessary (albeit uncomfortably) for our growth and experience to make us like the Saviour; give yourself permission to honestly assess the situation and make decisions with regards to the safety of your family and you can stand up for yourself without becoming one of them. The Book of Mormon is so true and so applicable in our day, use these experiences to build your understanding and compassion levels for those who are also enduring painful paths.

My love goes out to you dear sister, heed them not, they are not worthy of your time or energy. Use this energy for your eternal treasure, your family.

[Elgama]

Thank you so much this has been so amazing, I am sorry other people have been through similar things, but I have decided our branch has had enough, the Lord has done so much in my life to prepare me for this I am in a unique position, most of her targets over the years have been prone to depression or learning difficulties (I sat in a Temple Prep class whilst she told people they weren't intelligent enough to go to the temple, happen to disagree one of the Sister's she targeted then taught me so much she may have had learning difficulties but her grasp of the Temple was amazing) although I was depressed when she targeted me, I am not prone to depression or self doubt it was just a rough time in my life my husband had severe depression and my Fibromyalgia was bad, being very much my own kind of beautiful has got me bullied over the years but this is first one that bothered me - my Gran used to say your kinda pretty, you OK by yourself and OK by God and I love you what do they matter lol and she's right

I will not be backing down or staying silent, ultimately even if I do get excommunicated (already been informed i won't be getting my temple recommend over it because I have bad feelings towards this Sister) as long as I can hold me head up high with the Lord does it really matter? He knows the truth, the blessings (of which I have had many since this started 7 years ago lol at one point got one every Saturday night to calm me, one on Sunday to get through the door and one when I got back to help me stop shaking and obsessing about next week), forgiveness then had to be week to week as something new would occur the next Sunday. I got a blessing saying I would forgive fully when it had served its purpose, the BP did a conflict resolution meeting with full Primary Presidency (was awful one amazing Sister in her 80s was very distressed by it), I insisted on one of his counsellors the worlds most successful Father (have known the family 17 years never once heard the children say anything close to negative about their parents or the parents about the children), it was awful nearly forgot to start with a prayer me reminding him got me snapped at lol undestandably I suppose I was a bit fresh. But week before the meeting met everyone in town who had ever taught or looked after my daughter, her preschool director gave me a quote for the meeting she was horrfied about what had happened and said I needed to fight it. My gut about the counsellor was correct he was the only time the spirit was truly engulfing the meeting, I called an end to it, got fed up the BP getting annoyed with me, rubbishing my daughter's preschool directors opinion and couldn't watch the elderly Sister's pain anymore. I am sure the amazing elderly Sister is another target would love to know who inisisted she was there

Had very wise Bishop during my 2 years at university in the most amazing ward, went through the Temple Recommend, wouldn't give me a recommend unless I could say with head held high YES I Am Worthy now I know before I go in the only question I can surely say Yes to is that (anyone else struggle with the are you 100% honest question? if I say yes is that dishonest lol)

LOL now I know my RS President was inspired she is a great lady, without her having a go at me, I wouldn't have had this thread that has made me realise sometimes things are not a matter of opinion its just plain wrong. Brigham Young did say when we take offence when offence is not intended we are fools, however when we take offence when offence is intended we are USUALLY fools - sometimes the offence needs to be dealt with. I love the way the Lord always prepares a way for things to be overcome even if his definition of soon and my definition of soon are sometimes not the same lol And maybe its time to prevent it elsewhere as well. Nothing overcomes bullying faster then a united NO!!!!

Edited January 24, 2010 by Elgama

[need4peace]

Part of the problem with bullying is that those in the very positions who could offer help and sort the problem often think that standing for what you know to be the truth in the name of the Lord means that you are apostate. The bully sometimes deceives leaders by being charming while the victim appears emotional, angry and unforgiving.

Not only do the targets suffer emotionally, they can suffer spiritual alienation and crisis in church settings. There is pressure on the target (victim) to “turn the other cheek” to empathise with and forgive the bully, and to protect the church from harm and scandal. Beware of spiritualising what is happening. Bullying is a form of abuse and responsibility rests with the abuser. We do need to forgive and the bullies need to be stopped.

An article I found helpful came from this website https://www.melbourne.anglican.com.au/main.php?pg=news&news_id=3882&s=2191'> https://www.melbourne.anglican.com.au/main.php?pg=news&news_id=3882&s=2191 although not from our church it describes very well what happens in any church bullying situation.

Victims of bullying may also experience judgement and blame. Pauline and Arthur Kennedy, founders of the BALM (Battered and Abused Lives in Ministry) website, an international and interdenominational support group for those who have suffered bullying in the church, say that it is not unusual for well-meaning Christians to focus only on the spiritual aspects of the problem.

“Often the approach is very judgemental – ‘You are anxious, where is your confidence in Christ?’ ‘You are depressed, where is your joy in the Lord?’ ‘You are stressed, you need to pray for God’s peace’. Judgement is followed by prescription – and often backed up with Bible verses to strengthen the message. And all this with very little understanding of what psychiatric injuries really are!”

“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it” (Martin Luther King).

[Elgama]

“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it” (Martin Luther King).

Please keep posting anything anyone wants all rambles welcome lol even ones that don't agree with some of my decisions (well actually was Heavenly Father's), funny with the prayer and scripture to back away and go inactive for a time (not apostate I am for my Heavenly Father 100% and would never say bad about the church), I got a glimpse into how Joseph Smith felt when he first told about the First Vision - because people didn't like what they heard they reacted almost fearfully and angrily have gained a lot of comfort from Joseph Smith right now. What has surprised me is the people that have accepted it, without question. Think my husband is going to start looking for a job elsewhere, funny one of our friends from one of the nearest units (no idea what is going on lol) asked my husband when he was going to move closer just yesterday. But I am not wanting to leave other people in this mess without doing something first, and I will continue to be vocal when we move

when I was a teen my Mum went through a bit of a crazy time and we were homeless I had a social worker who said if you let bullying continue you were a bully. I agree with that - I took part in the bullying of the most targeted parent I am deeply ashamed, and for me my repentance if fighting this now. I remember in YWs how our leader (now PP) had us up in arms about the Branch President - guess he was the target then. Thats what upsets me most before I went to the BP he had heard about the bullying from other people, I was encouraged to go by one Sister who was convinced she had made him listen.

There are things I have done in this branch for which I am completely culpable, and should not have done. But the bullies are also wrong and without the culture they have created I would never have acted like that, they are far more wrong and need to be stopped or at least exposed, funny after prayer thats the scriptures that keep coming up about exposing secret combinations, and ones that have so much humour about the situation in it no hatred is possible, I just laugh when I think of them, Saviour has used a lot of humour to help me recently like giving me a giggling baby so proud of himself when I was struggling over this - I was laughing so much. I can't forget yet as I need to act but I am no longer obsessed with what is going on.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Elgama

[need4peace]

What Not to Say to someone who is being bullied

• Oh, these things happen, you just forgive and move on.
• I'm aware that you believe you were bullied.
• You've got to put the past behind you and move forward.
• The problem is not the bullying, but your inability to cope with it.
• Bullying doesn't happen in the church
• Stop whining, you sound like an attention-seeker.
• You have to submit to those in authority over you.
• Don't you think you might be overreacting?
• Just ignore them
• Depression is a spiritual problem
• There must be some secret sin you haven't repented of.
• Your problem is spiritual: you are either disobedient to God, or you are living a lie.
• You are just angry and unforgiving

[Elgama]

LOL heard a lot of those past 6 months and have some to add.

+ You confused help and interference for bullying (even interference is given with a good heart and does not usually call someone stupid or ridiculous or happens when the person is trapping you in a confined space)

+ This isn't a war you know I am sure you don't expect me to take sides (of course I do evil is evil whether its a church member who is perpetuating it or not, if someone wasn't LDS and was behaving this way we would be asked to take sides and do what is right)

Edited January 24, 2010 by Elgama

[applepansy]

Excellent response. I'm sorry you had to go through all you did. But I'm glad you shared your experience. These things happen in RS and in rural Wards and they cannot be allowed to continue. Thank you for standing for truth and righteousness in the face of Satan.

(((hugs)))

EDIT: These things can happen in any ward.

Your situation reminded me of bullying I experienced not that long ago when I lived in another area.

I witnessed sisters bullying other sisters & even singled one sister as their main target. Those sisters that were bullied or those sick of witnessing the bullying either went inactive or moved away just to escape the bullying that simply wasn't addressed. The bullies were a group of sisters who didn't take kindly to anyone refusing to join the persecution of their main target. If you didn't join in then you 'must' be the 'enemy' so you then become alienated and bullied into joining them or leaving or being plain broken.

I found it to be very alarming - the bullies unbelievably have so much control over the Branch. They could convince outsiders and/or leaders that there was a problem with certain sisters who were just not getting along. They could convince them that the main target sister was the instigator of the disharmony. People would then avoid her. What was so strange is it was left unchecked for years before I stepped foot in the place.

When I first encountered the situation I was confused - everyone acted so 'nice' yet something was making me feel uneasy but I couldn't put my finger on what was happening.

After 6 months I was called as Relief Society President my eyes were quickly opened - I quickly learnt in an unpleasant way what was 'really' happening. The flood gates opened I received some horrid letters full of anger and gossip about the target sister in particular but they wrote things about other sisters I didn't even know; ones who had left the area or gone inactive. They wanted me to somehow deal with the target sister it was crazy.

I was given 'icing on top' when I asked for help to deal with the problem. So I increased reading the scriptures, and fasting and praying, I continued regular trips to the Temple and cried to the Lord for help to know what to do. I received answers to prayer & was told to stand against gossip and bullying. I received Doctrine and Covenants 50 - my heart broke for all the sisters including the bullies. I sent out a request to all the sisters for the gossip etc to stop but before too long I became the 'new' target - I calmly refused to give into their threats.

They became disruptive in classes and deliberately disagreed with me when I was teaching, they'd sit up the front and glare at me so the sisters behind them couldn't see (childish), It led to them eventually boycotting R/S altogether & voiced their decision not to sustain me in my calling. But every so often one of the group would attend out of the blue which made for uneasiness in the meeting. Each bully used different tactics to support of each other.

It got worse I was yelled at in the chapel, sent abusive emails, received angry threatening phone calls, my husband and I were gossiped about, I was even verbally (although quietly) abused in the Temple grounds, wrongfully reported to Stake in an effort to get me excommunicated and it went on and on. The bullies managed to disrupt all aspects of Relief Society, they verbally denied revelations I received as part of my calling, visiting teaching was in chaos, R/S activities were also publicly boycotted or disrupted by at least one if in attendence. It was extremely tiresome in the calling trying to 'keep' or get peace in R/S. I was at wits end what to do because what ever was organised was crippled. I dreaded going to church and if I didn't know the church was true I would have been out of there at the first sign of trouble.

What I experienced was what the target sister had experienced for a decade - it was very difficult because my only 'sin' was not participating in gossip & bullying and doing my best to be on the 'Lord's side' rather than 'anyone's side'. Although at times I admit I did question myself thinking I was a hopeless R/S President> When I felt that depressive spirit I would then feel the reassuring comfort of the Holy Spirit confirming the opposite was true.

Sad to say but it was great when none of them attended the meetings because we felt the Spirit in attendance.

Within a year I asked to be released it was too difficult to handle and I hated seeing good people hurt when all they wanted to do was attend meetings in peace. Sadly they were denied that. I'd had enough

My husband (non member) was extremely upset - he could see I was trying to be calm & not cry after I got off the phone from an abusive phone call etc. I kept thinking that I didn't want him to think ill of the church because of their behaviour. He'd see me go to church trying to put a 'smile' on my face and return dejected. In the end I opened up to him carefully told him things like the gossip that involved us both. He put his foot down and refused to let me go back. He told me to go to another chapel some distance away which I did.

It was a relief to go elsewhere. My heart suddenly felt alive again, it was wonderful to feel the Spirit so strongly there. To me it felt like going home.

It was beautiful.

Disappointingly the local leaders appeared to avoid dealing with it (denial I think) and seem to put it down to something like a hens fight and act as if they'll get over it, but it is far more destructive than that.

I contacted leaders in higher positions and they were dealing with it when we thankfully were prompted to sell & move several hours away. What a blessing.

A year on and as predicted by an Area leader there is hardly anyone attending that Branch. I am not surprised and am so glad I am away from the situation but my heart goes out to those left behind who are trying to do the right thing under such trying circumstances. It is a cruel thing being bullied and it is disgusting that there are those who stand by and allow it to continue through either ignorance, through fear, or through complacency - they only encourage the bullying through their inaction.

I knew I had to work on forgiveness during that time which wasn't easy but in the long run it has been worth it. At times I felt it was too hard but when I was about to 'give up' I was prompted to remember our Saviour and Joseph Smith and how they dealt with persecution from those close to them. I knew from their example I had to endure to the end and I did. No matter what was happening around me and to me I needed to attend sacrament (somewhere) to renew my covenants as part of putting on the Armour of God. It was to keep the fiery darts of the adversary from penetrating my spirit. It would have been 'easy' to not go to church but it would have also made it too 'easy' for me to lose everything.

I thank God for a new start in a 'normal' church setting even if I have to travel an hour and a half to get there. It is worth every kilometre I travel to experience peace and know that when I get there it will be 'normal' and when I teach, sisters participate in 'normal' ways, there are 'normal' problems that are dealt with in 'normal' ways and I receive 'normal' emails and get lots of 'normal' hugs. I go home with a 'normal' and not forced smile on my face. My husband tells me he is so glad I am not there anymore. He loves that I am enjoying the difference. I am so grateful I listened and followed through against the gossip and bullying because even though the bullying hasn't been dealt with their power seems to be less and is a little easier for the target sister. She goes to sacrament and quickly leaves but I hope and pray she and the others will get to experience normality and a lovely spirit in their meetings.

Church bullying is very real in all churches unfortunately we aren't immune to it in our Church. The Church is true the gospel is perfect but we aren't.

This article by Elder Carlos E. Asay of the Seventy helped me so much because he specified the following things we can do to strengthen ourselves against apostasy:

“1. Avoid those who would tear down your faith. Faith-killers are to be shunned. The seeds which they plant in the minds and hearts of men grow like cancer and eat away the Spirit. True messengers of God are builders—not destroyers.

“2. Keep the commandments. … If we obey holy laws, we will take upon ourselves “the whole armour of God” and we will be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

“3. Follow the living prophets. …

“4. Do not contend or debate over points of doctrine. [see 3 Nephi 11:29.]The Master warned that “the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil.”

“5. Search the scriptures. … Few of us would go astray or lose our way if we regarded the scriptures as our personal guide or compass.

“6. Do not be swayed or diverted from the mission of the Church. … There are those who would draw you off course and cause you to waste time and energies. Satan used a diversion ploy when he tempted Christ in the wilderness. The Savior’s decisive response, “Get thee hence, Satan” (Matt. 4:10), is a proper example for all of us.

“7. Pray for your enemies. … “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you.”

“8. Practice ‘pure religion.’ [see James 1:27 and Alma 1:30.] … be charitable to all whether in the Church or out of the Church

“9. Remember that there may be many questions for which we have no answers and that some things have to be accepted simply on faith”

Carlos E. Asay, “Opposition to the Work of God,” Ensign, Nov 1981, 67

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Opposition to the Work of God

PS there are some great websites on bullying that are there to help understand who and what bullies are and why they are the way they are. Worth checking them out. This was my favourite Bully OnLine: bullying in the workplace, school, family and community, action you can take, stress, psychiatric injury, PTSD, resources, case histories, news and contact the media

Who are the most responsible?

Those who bully?

Or those who stand by and allow it to happen?

Those who can, do

Those who can't, bully!!!

All the best and keep close to the Lord He is the one who really knows what you are experiencing and what is in everyone's heart.

Edited January 25, 2010 by applepansy

[Elgama]

An update sort of we are now in touch with the Stake not sure they received my first email i sent just after this thread was started. We are still inactive and Ellie is starting to get her confidence back which is lovely to see.