God & Christmas

[prisonchaplain]

What is Christmas really all about? Did God ordain the holiday? Does He get much out of it. Or, is it mostly for our benefit?

[sgallan]

Well I don't believe in god so I can't answer from that perspective. But I voted for the first choice..... it is a time for family. Often family who you might not ever see otherwise. It is a time for gift giving to loved ones. It is a special time for children (it was for me and is for mine).

[Ray]

To my family and I, Christmas is all about Christ.

The Christmas tree represents the life and sacrifice of a noble life.

The star on top of our tree represents the star that led to Christ.

The lights on our tree represent the light of Christ in the world.

The decorations on the tree represent the gifts we give to Christ.

The gifts under the tree represent giving to others as Christ taught us.

And the Christmas carols represent the songs sung by angels that night in honor of Christ.

(And btw, we like “real” Christmas carols, preferably sung by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, not the ones about Santa Claus.)

Let’s see. Anything else? Oh yeah.

The nativity scene represents the obvious fact that God was born on Earth.

And taking the day off from work represents that it is a holy day.

[prisonchaplain]

Christmas celebrates the advent (or coming) of Jesus. If he came because God loves the world, and so that we might not perish but have everlasting life, then I contend that the primary purpose of the holiday ought to be to offer the many souls that wander into our houses of worship the Plan of Salvation.

The family gatherings, the general increase in kindness and charitable giving, the way people tend to appreciate each other more--these are pleasant added blessings. However, this year I am purposing to follow Jesus' admonition to "Seek first the kingdom of God."

May your Christmas be Kingdom-filled and rich in blessings! B)

[Ray]

That’s pretty much what I believe we should do every day, PC, so it seems to me that you don’t see Christmas day any differently than any other day.

And btw, since you have brought up the idea before about how you think we [LDS] are declaring “another” gospel, I thought you might be interested in reading about how our Lord himself defined it:

Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.

And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;

Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

Write the things which ye have seen and heard, save it be those which are forbidden.

Write the works of this people, which shall be, even as hath been written, of that which hath been.

For behold, out of the books which have been written, and which shall be written, shall this people be judged, for by them shall their works be known unto men.

And behold, all things are written by the Father; therefore out of the books which shall be written shall the world be judged.

And know ye that ye shall be judges of this people, according to the judgment which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am.

And now I go unto the Father. And verily I say unto you, whatsoever things ye shall ask the Father in my name shall be given unto you.

Therefore, ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for he that asketh, receiveth; and unto him that knocketh, it shall be opened. – 3 Nephi 27:13-29

[BenRaines]

PC, I think that Christmas time helps those that don't always do charitable or Christlike things to be reminded to do them. I thing that there are others that attempt to do Christlike actions on a daily basis.

I try to be Christlike in my daily dealings with my fellowman but can even increase my own Christlike ways and use it as a time to reflect on what I have done during the year to live a Christ centered life.

To the majority of the world there is no Christmas. When you factor in the number of asian countries that do not believe in Christ add to that the Muslim countries and other non-believers and it is a minority of the world that believes in Christ and in Christmas. The rest it is a holiday of cheer and end of a year. Not sure how much cheer there is in places where they wonder if they will get a scoop of rice or mush to eat on Christmas.

I enjoy the holiday and the spirit that it is intended to generate.

For me the greater celebration is Easter and the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. While his being born was a great start it was his resurrection that will bring us from the grave.

[Josie]

That is my feelings also, Ben. Without the resurrection, what would have been the point of anything else?

[prisonchaplain]

That’s pretty much what I believe we should do every day, PC, so it seems to me that you don’t see Christmas day any differently than any other day.

Ray, we got a lot of visitors at Christmas time to our churches. So, we are careful to present the Plan of Salvation in a way that newcomers will understand. I would be surprised to learn that you did not take advantage of spiritual opportunities that God lays before you, as well.

And btw, since you have brought up the idea before about how you think we [LDS] are declaring “another” gospel

Ray, you throw out these accusatory statements with such ease. I have not brought up the idea that LDS are declaring another gospel. In response to querries directed towards me about the doctrine of salvation, I have suggested that this is a possiblity.

As for your lengthy Scripture quote, I'm not sure what your bottom-line point is. If I'm not mistaken, we both believe that Christians should be doing good works. However, my impression is that YOU (and perhaps the LDS?) believe that these labors are a prerequisite of salvation, whereas I (and most evangelicals) suggest that they are the fruit or product of salvation.

[prisonchaplain]

PC, I think that Christmas time helps those that don't always do charitable or Christlike things to be reminded to do them. ... I try to be Christlike in my daily dealings with my fellowman but can even increase my own Christlike ways and use it as a time to reflect on what I have done during the year to live a Christ centered life.

A very balanced and excellent analysis. You were able to see that when I suggest that Christmas is a great time for presenting the Good News I do not mean that we should not do so throughout the year. I'm suggesting a special emphasis, not a new endeavor.

To the majority of the world there is no Christmas. When you factor in the number of asian countries that do not believe in Christ add to that the Muslim countries and other non-believers and it is a minority of the world that believes in Christ and in Christmas. The rest it is a holiday of cheer and end of a year. Not sure how much cheer there is in places where they wonder if they will get a scoop of rice or mush to eat on Christmas.

Roughly two-thirds of the world is non-Christian. Yet, even in most non-Christian countries, there is a Christian witness. In China, for example, estimates range from 40 to well over 100 million believers. I suppose this is the good news/bad news. There is still much to be done, no doubt!

For me the greater celebration is Easter and the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. While his being born was a great start it was his resurrection that will bring us from the grave.

One year a Catholic friend made us a nativity scene. On the manger he put a cross. I first I thought, "How morbid!" This is the beautiful birth scene of Jesus. Why put his instrument of execution here. Then I realized that Jesus was indeed a marked man, even from birth. So, for Christians, the resurrection is absolutely the fulfillment of the Promise.

On the other hand, purely from the standpoint of winning souls--Christmas does bring us greater crowds.

[sgallan]

A very balanced and excellent analysis. You were able to see that when I suggest that Christmas is a great time for presenting the Good News I do not mean that we should not do so throughout the year. I'm suggesting a special emphasis, not a new endeavor.

I am sorry but I feel a bit left out. I am in the process of spending - oh heck I gave up counting - hours with kids. 6:00 AM practices. Regular practices. Rides home and too practice. Trips. My own kid. Various ages. Dang.... I could go on endlessly. Oh yeah..... I teach distance ed. at a college to inmates and have made many support visits to the prisons. But yet, I am a godless heathen. Don't I count?

[Ray]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain+Dec 5 2005, 08:03 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray

As for your lengthy Scripture quote, I'm not sure what your bottom-line point is. 

My bottom-line point was to help you understand what we consider to be the "gospel" message, based upon the word of God himself.

[prisonchaplain]

Sgallon asks:  I am sorry but I feel a bit left out. I am in the process of spending - oh heck I gave up counting - hours with kids. 6:00 AM practices. Regular practices. Rides home and too practice. Trips. My own kid. Various ages. Dang.... I could go on endlessly. Oh yeah..... I teach distance ed. at a college to inmates and have made many support visits to the prisons. But yet, I am a godless heathen. Don't I count?

The vast majority of your good deeds are covered under Mom/Pop's Day. Your volunteer work for the prison would be covered under Volunteer Appreciation Day. You can even get a federal government certificate to go with that one! But, what does a self-described godless heathen expect from a distinctly Christian holiday, other than to piggyback on some of the good eats, the parties, the presents, and some of the general goodwill and cheer that coat-tails with the holiday.

[sgallan]

But, what does a self-described godless heathen expect from a distinctly Christian holiday, other than to piggyback on some of the good eats, the parties, the presents, and some of the general goodwill and cheer that coat-tails with the holiday.

To me this is the holliday...... especially the general goodwill part. :)

[eleigh1977]

Scott...I agree with you, in that it is a time for families.

Whatever religion or holiday you celebrate this time of year...it comes back to family.

Whatever your belief system, whether or not you believe in god/many gods/goddesses...whatever...

This time brings us back to our most basic and most needed unit, our families.

For some it's their natural family....for others it is the family they have made for themselves.

My husband and I agree on one thing, that we KNOW for sure this life is about learning to function in a family...and not just to be, but to be WELL in a family. I think for most people that is the hardest test and challenge they face, along w/ facing ourselves as individuals.

I use the Holidays for that connection and I choose to celebrate Christmas in the way I've come to believe, because I believe in tradition and continuity.

[sgallan]

eleigh -

Family counts sooo much. It is what I can always count on, and has been a staple of our family since I can remember. Denise, despite all of the heartache, financial crap, leaving her baby (I'll NEVER get that), and all of the 'stuff', is going to be around to help us do the tree, and then will be here for Christmas the next weekend. She is Reni's mommy. That makes her family no matter how annoyed I am. My dad and step-mom consider her family. And even my mom sent her a present. This is what we do.